Has science falsified macroevolution?

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M0nkey said:
Well, how can there be empathy and a common good in a world without absolute truths?

Let’s say for example, I am a big bully and I take great delight in picking on those who are weak. According to my way of life you can’t tell me that what I am doing is “wrong” for I take great delight in being the oppressor. If Billy decides he should never get picked on and that’s an absolute, I can quickly rebuttal that with saying there are none and what I’m doing is perfectly good for me therefore it has to be good for everyone else. What’s to stop me then?

I fear the world you present to us here is bereft of any real empathy. Really, think about it.
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What on earth are you going on about? Do you no what absolute truth is?
 
buffalo said:
Uh no - I am the top bully. I have more power than you, so what I think and do are right. I really do not care what you think. I have the power. So my truth is the truth you will live by.
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HAHA and who does that sound like??? GOD!!! LOL

GOD - You didnt believe in me!

ME - Well logic and reason told me not to believe in something without good reason. Does it really matter if i believed in you? I lived a good life, i never hurt anyone, i always did my best to help others when possible. Look theres a child molesting rapist walking about heaven.

GOD - Yeah but he said sorry to me. I am the top bully. I have more power than you, so what I think and do are right. I really do not care what you think. I have the power. So my truth is the truth you will live by. NOW BURN FOREVER FOR NOT BELIEVING!!!

ME - Gee god aint you a nice chap.
 
reggieM said:
Quite amazing. For a minute I thought that was a creationist site.

What is remarkable is that the molecular genealogy of the living species shows their origin only 15 million years ago, with the same trajectory as in the distant past! Evidence suggests that trajectory has occurred again and again in other groups. The authors argue that the original trajectory was highly contingent on a set of initial conditions, but that given the possibilities afforded by time, a genetic background would arise (like flipping a coin long enough to achieve 10 heads or tails in a row) that was visible to natural selection, most likely driven by predation. Acting together, the eventual realization of a particular genetic and developmental channel, and natural selection opened the way for an adaptive solution.

I love that analogy with the coin flip. 🙂 Ok, it’s not just 10 times in a row. More like a million times – and it’s not a two-sided coin either.
The “explanation” for this phenomenon is a classic case of imaginary Darwinian just-so-stories. “Given enough time …”
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I take it you don’t understand stats either then?
 
Charles_Darwin said:
You claim the existence of a god, and you claim it as absolute truth. This has blinded you to logic and reason, to the point where you deny all the evidence and claim that we were poofed into existence by “god”. Now i couldn’t care less what you want to believe, but i guarantee if you had children you would teach them the same crazy nonsense. That IMO is akin to child abuse, and that i do care about.
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That last sentence is ridiculous. Your statement is so overblown that it makes you look daft and just as blinded by fanatic belief as the young earth creationists.

Science can’t prove that God exists, because it can’t prove God doesn’t exist. Plain and simple. I have no idea why, after claiming disbelief if God, you are trying to mix religion and science.

Why are you posting this long-winded, repetative thread on this particular site? If you want to discuss evolution, there are several sites devoted to it.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
But i DONT claim it as absolute truth, and it has NOTHING to do with understanding the cosmos, so what is your issue?
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Brother, that is an absolute!
Charles_Darwin said:
I take it you don’t understand stats either then?
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Did you read the article? It’s saying no matter how many times you flip the coin you are always going to get the same results. In other words, no gradual macro-evolution.

That was a really nice article, by the way, thanks buffalo.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
HAHA and who does that sound like??? GOD!!! LOL

GOD - You didnt believe in me!

ME - Well logic and reason told me not to believe in something without good reason. Does it really matter if i believed in you? I lived a good life, i never hurt anyone, i always did my best to help others when possible. Look theres a child molesting rapist walking about heaven.

GOD - Yeah but he said sorry to me. I am the top bully. I have more power than you, so what I think and do are right. I really do not care what you think. I have the power. So my truth is the truth you will live by. NOW BURN FOREVER FOR NOT BELIEVING!!!

ME - Gee god aint you a nice chap.
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Here are the attributes of God.

Which ones do you disagree with?
Code: 
          ********

    ** The             Supernatural Knowability of the Existence of God **

  1. *] God’s existence is not merely an object of natural rational knowledge, but also an object of supernatural faith. (De fide.)

    ** ** The Nature of God** **
    Code: 
        ** The             Knowledge of the Nature of God **

    1. *] Our natural knowledge of God in this world is not as immediate, intuitive cognition, but a mediate, abstractive knowledge, because it is attained through the knowledge of creatures. (Sent. certa.)
      *] Our knowledge of God here below is not proper (cognitio propia) but analogical (cognitio analoga or analogica). (Sent. certa.)
      *] God’s Nature is incomprehensible to men. (De fide.)
      *] The blessed in Heaven posses an immediate intuitive knowledge of the Divine Essence. (De fide.)
      *] The Immediate Vision of God transcends the natural power of cognition of the human soul, and is therefore supernatural. (De fide.)
      *] The soul, for the Immediate Vision of God, requires the light of glory. (De fide. D 475.)
      *] God’s Essence is also incomprehensible to the blessed in Heaven. (De fide.)

      ** ** The Attributes or Qualities of God** **
      Code: 
          ** The             Attributes of God in General **

      1. *] The Divine Attributes are really identical among themselves and with the Divine Essence. (De fide.)
 
**The Attributes of the Divine Being **


  1. *] God is absolutely perfect. (De fide.)
    *] God is actually infinite in every perfection. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolutely simple. (De fide.)
    *] There is only One God. (De fide.)
    *] The One God is, in the ontological sense, The True God. (De fide.)
    *] God possesses an infinite power of cognition. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolute Veracity. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolutely faithful. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness. (De fide.) D 1782.
    *] God is absolute Benignity. (De fide.) D1782.
    *] God is absolute Beauty. D1782.
    *] God is absolutely immutable. (De fide.)
    *] God is eternal. (De fide.)
    *] God is immense or absolutely immeasurable. (De fide.)
    *] God is everywhere present in created space. (De fide.)

    1. *] God’s knowledge is infinite. (De fide.)
      *] God’s knowledge is purely and simply actual.
      *] God’s knowledge is subsistent
      *] God’s knowledge is comprehensive
      *] God’s knowledge is independent of extra-divine things
      *] The primary and formal object of the Divine Cognition is God Himself. (Scientia contemplationis)
      *] God knows all that is merely possible by the knowledge of simple intelligence (scientia simplicis intelligentiae). (De fide.)
      *] God knows all real things in the past, the present and the future (Scientia visionis). (De fide.)
      *] By knowledge of vision (scientia visionis) God also foresees the free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty. (De fide.)
      *] God also knows the conditioned future free actions with infallible certainty (Scientia futuribilium). (Sent. communis.)
      *] God’s Divine will is infinite. (De fide.)
      *] God loves Himself of necessity, but loves and wills the creation of extra-Divine things, on the other hand, with freedom. (De fide.)
      *] God is almighty. (De fide.)
      *] God is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth. (De fide.) D 1782.
      *] God is infinitely just. (De fide.)
      *] God is infinitely merciful. (De fide.)
 
Buffalo, I like the way you write and think.
  • Al
P.S. The little complication in these kinds of forum discussions is that “our ways are not God’s ways”. That little complication messes up those who think they are god. small “g”. Messes up some book title writers. “You Shall Be As gods”. And as one television personality made a reference to one of our political personalities.

Science is useful, but it has limits. The “problem” is that folks have started to word spin … changing the meaning of words “is”, for example ]. OR, more often, using a word in one context and then … not spinning, but “twisting” the meaning about 15 degrees. Deliberately choosing obfuscation over clarity.
 
kalt said:
That last sentence is ridiculous. Your statement is so overblown that it makes you look daft and just as blinded by fanatic belief as the young earth creationists.

Science can’t prove that God exists, because it can’t prove God doesn’t exist. Plain and simple. I have no idea why, after claiming disbelief if God, you are trying to mix religion and science.

Why are you posting this long-winded, repetative thread on this particular site? If you want to discuss evolution, there are several sites devoted to it.
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Did i start the thread?

“Science can’t prove that God exists, because it can’t prove God doesn’t exist.”?
 
M0nkey said:
Brother, that is an absolute!

Did you read the article? It’s saying no matter how many times you flip the coin you are always going to get the same results. In other words, no gradual macro-evolution.

That was a really nice article, by the way, thanks buffalo.
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That is not what the artical said.
 
God’s Nature is incomprehensible to men. Followed by…
buffalo said:
**The Attributes of the Divine Being **


  1. *] God is absolutely perfect. (De fide.)
    *] God is actually infinite in every perfection. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolutely simple. (De fide.)
    *] There is only One God. (De fide.)
    *] The One God is, in the ontological sense, The True God. (De fide.)
    *] God possesses an infinite power of cognition. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolute Veracity. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolutely faithful. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others. (De fide.)
    *] God is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness. (De fide.) D 1782.
    *] God is absolute Benignity. (De fide.) D1782.
    *] God is absolute Beauty. D1782.
    *] God is absolutely immutable. (De fide.)
    *] God is eternal. (De fide.)
    *] God is immense or absolutely immeasurable. (De fide.)
    *] God is everywhere present in created space. (De fide.)

    1. *] God’s knowledge is infinite. (De fide.)
      *] God’s knowledge is purely and simply actual.
      *] God’s knowledge is subsistent
      *] God’s knowledge is comprehensive
      *] God’s knowledge is independent of extra-divine things
      *] The primary and formal object of the Divine Cognition is God Himself. (Scientia contemplationis)
      *] God knows all that is merely possible by the knowledge of simple intelligence (scientia simplicis intelligentiae). (De fide.)
      *] God knows all real things in the past, the present and the future (Scientia visionis). (De fide.)
      *] By knowledge of vision (scientia visionis) God also foresees the free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty. (De fide.)
      *] God also knows the conditioned future free actions with infallible certainty (Scientia futuribilium). (Sent. communis.)
      *] God’s Divine will is infinite. (De fide.)
      *] God loves Himself of necessity, but loves and wills the creation of extra-Divine things, on the other hand, with freedom. (De fide.)
      *] God is almighty. (De fide.)
      *] God is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth. (De fide.) D 1782.
      *] God is infinitely just. (De fide.)
      *] God is infinitely merciful. (De fide.)
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    1. Your god is a sicko, have you read the bible?
 
Charles_Darwin said:
HAHA and who does that sound like??? GOD!!! LOL

GOD - You didnt believe in me!

ME - Well logic and reason told me not to believe in something without good reason. Does it really matter if i believed in you? I lived a good life, i never hurt anyone, i always did my best to help others when possible. Look theres a child molesting rapist walking about heaven.

GOD - Yeah but he said sorry to me. I am the top bully. I have more power than you, so what I think and do are right. I really do not care what you think. I have the power. So my truth is the truth you will live by. NOW BURN FOREVER FOR NOT BELIEVING!!!

ME - Gee god aint you a nice chap.
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And here is the pattern: go to Christian site, rail against them for believing in god, try to teach them something about evolution, be amazed when some deny it, rinse, repeat.

Burn forever for not believing? Do you think that’s unreasonable? The mission of the Catholic Church is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, a person who did exist according to non-Christian writers of the period. The Catholic Church exists even after Christians were put to death. In the Bible, we are told that if Christ’s ressurection did not in fact happen then our faith is in vain.

I understand your give me evidence, I’ll accept nothing else approach. I heard it over 30 years ago: “Show me God. If you can show me God I might believe in Him.”

There is a cloak in existence today. Secretary of State Clinton viewed it recently. She asked who painted it. The Church declares it was not painted by human hands. It’s been examined by experts. It’s the tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

I study the history of technology. Do you know what Samuel Morse said after sending the first message on the telegraph he invented? “What hath God wrought?”

You may think that that’s only a nice sentiment or just quaint. However, I can point to many inventors who believed in God and it obviously did not hinder their work. So faith and reason can coexist.

Peace,
Ed
 
buffalo said:
Another Oops? What does it mean when something repeats itself?:hmmm:

How Big A Role Does Chance Play In The History Of Life?

ScienceDaily (June 23, 2009) — If the broad evolutionary diversification a group of organisms were repeated by a few species in a single genus tens of millions of years after the group’s initial diversification, what would that say about the roles of contingency, constraint, and adaptation?

more…
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This seems a lot similar to what you posted in this thread to which I responded concerning the implications of probability.

The only thing I’m sensing in this article here is that convergent evolution occurs much more frequently than we first thought (i.e. similar selective forces are putting more pressure for a particular trait to evolve independently in various lineages far more frequently that at first surmised).

I’m curious where you’re going with this, as I’m coming late to this conversation here. Mind filling me in a bit? 🙂 Thanks.
 
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