Has the Catholic Church apologized for burning Giordano Bruno at the stake?

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Pope Francis is welcome to his opinion, but on this issue he is wrong.

The Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church are near universal in their opinion that capital punishment was within the correctly authority of the State.
 
Pope Alexander VII was not contradicting the teachings of Tradition and Scripture.

Pope Francis was.
 
It contradicts the teachings of Scripture to say we generally shouldn’t kill people for crimes?
I guess Jesus should have just told everybody to go ahead and hurl those rocks at the adulteress, or was he “wrong” too?
 
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That was not what Pope Francis said.

He said: “The Death penalty is, in itself, contrary to the Gospel”

The death penalty is not contrary to the Gospel.

The adulteress has nothing, literally nothing, to do with discussions about the death penalty. For one, the Pharisees were not the legitimate State authority, for another the Pharisees were literally guilty of the same crime as the woman.

Christ told Pilate right out that his authority over life and death was given to him by God.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Christ told Pilate right out that his authority over life and death was given to him by God.
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Yes, it was given to him in that case by God because Jesus, being God, could have struck the man dead and escaped, but He chose to give Pilate authority over Him so he could fulfill the wishes of His Father that he die for the sins of humanity.

And if you think any one of us isn’t guilty of serious crimes when we go putting others to death, just think about how many people probably kissed someone passionately in their lives at the very least.

I realize you will never be convinced that you sound, at best, legalistic to the nth degree…I am happy to let you “win” arguments but I would like other people who may not be Catholic and happen to read these boards to understand that we do not all think like you do.
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
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steve-b:
Re: Exsurge Domine, and burning of heretics,
Didn’t God wipe out Sodom and Gomorrah by fire?

The Church is against capital punishment. When I quoted the council of Florence, The Church was reiterating it’s stand on the subject. The Church has no power over secular governments and what the state does.
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Exsurge Domine was not stating whether the State has the right to burn heretics but whether The Holy Spirit approves of it or not. It says that it does, and that’s the domain of the Church. The Church approved of these burnings. Do we see a word from the Church during the time that it was handing over or pointing out heretics over to the State stating these people should not be burned? Just because they didn’t light the fires doesn’t mean they weren’t just as complicit in such disgusting acts. A mob member handing over a person to a mob enforcer to be killed is just as guilty.
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Heretics were considered enemies of both the state and the Church. Cutting to the chase, The state treated a heretic differently than the Church treated heretics. Historically, the Church banished heretics. The state often executed heretics.

I entered the discussion in post 38.

The council of Florence, reiterated the Church position on killing heretics

Re: Exsurge Domine, 300+ yrs later, and the HS and burning of heretics, I would just say, People in hell are there because of judgement by God on their soul. Therefore the HS is involved in that judgement. And since those souls in hell burn forever, burning heretics is not against the will of the HS.

That said, The Church hasn’t taken on herself judge and executioner of heretics or any one in mortal sin. The official position of the Church expressed at Florence, and Exsurge Domine, hasn’t changed on that matter

Has anyone in history gone rogue? Sure. But I’m talking about the official position of the Church
 
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Unfortunately that would be moral relativism, which I hear often on EWTN radio that Catholics are to avoid. From what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, the extra mercy in these matters came from the Church making sure the person was given opportunity to recant their heresy. That doesn’t negate the fact that the Church still was involved in the death of these people, and that these people were being punished for sincere beliefs. At that period the Church was simply not a light in the darkness.
 
steve-b, you and I agree that the Church has taught that it is within the will of The Holy Spirit and the rights of the Church that heretics be killed. It would seem the difference we have is whether such acts were moral.
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
steve-b, you and I agree that the Church has taught that it is within the will of The Holy Spirit and the rights of the Church that heretics be killed. It would seem the difference we have is whether such acts were moral.
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To my knowledge, the Church has never claimed she personally or in any other capacity, had the right to execute anyone. But if someone has a reference to the contrary, please post it… properly referenced of course.

I make a distinction here between self defense and execution.
 
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It would be moral relativism to suggest that objective morality has changed. The Church has always taught that one’s personal culpability in committing an immoral act can be subjective dependent upon the circumstances. Church leaders endorsed objectively immoral acts, but were they cognizant of it?
 
If then I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything for which I deserve to die, I do not seek to escape death.
-Acts 25: 11

Let every soul be subject to higher powers. For there is no power but from God: and those that are ordained of God. Therefore, he that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist purchase to themselves damnation. For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to thee, for good. But if thou do that which is evil, fear: for he beareth not the sword in vain. For he is God’s minister: an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil
-Romans 13: 1-4

“It must be remembered that power was granted by God [to the magistrates], and to avenge crime by the sword was permitted. He who carries out this vengeance is God’s minister (Rm 13:1-4). Why should we condemn a practice that all hold to be permitted by God? We uphold, therefore, what has been observed until now, in order not to alter the discipline and so that we may not appear to act contrary to God’s authority.” (Pope Innocent 1, Epist. 6, C. 3. 8, ad Exsuperium, Episcopum Tolosanum, 20 February 405, PL 20,495)

“The power of life and death is permitted to certain civil magistrates because theirs is the responsibility under law to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment [Thy shall not kill], such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it. For the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life. This purpose is fulfilled when the legitimate authority of the State is exercised by taking the guilty lives of those who have taken innocent lives. In the Psalms we find a vindication of this right: “Morning by morning I will destroy all the wicked in the land, cutting off all evildoers from the city of the Lord” (Ps. 101:8). (Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent, 1566, Part III, 5, n. 4)

Can you find any scripture that explicitly forbids Capital Punishment? Because I have plenty that explicitly demand or allow it and many more that implicitly demand or allow it.

Obviously the Church teaching on passionate kissing has severely bothered you. Take it up with the Church.

You want non-Catholics to learn that Tis-Bearself is the final authority on all moral matters and has a veto on any Church teaching she doesn’t like or approve of?
 
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I’d say from the lengthy and impassioned response you posted, you’re a lot more wound up about this than I am. I’m quite confident that our current Pope is taking the Church in the right direction on all the matters you mention, so I humbly defer to the Holy Father.
God Bless
 
What a strange argument, that providing sources is somehow wrong, or that by being passionate about a topic is somehow evidence that the position one takes is wrong. Very convenient for the person who has no evidence, that providing sources for your position is wrong…

But you don’t defer to the Holy Father… You defer to the private opinion of Jorge Bergoglio over the judgements of the Popes, the Councils, the Doctors, and Scripture itself.
 
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