Has the Church issued any sort of teachings/doctrines about transsexuality?

[Theresa_Frances]

I’ve seen many references to a letter by Pope John Paul II to Catholic Bishops in 2003 stating that transsexual (for lack of a better word) persons cannot be recognized as their new gender should they transition and have gender reassignment surgery to correct their physical gender and bring in congruence with the mental gender. There are many opinions pro & con as to the efficacy of this type procedure. There are also people I know who had transtioned and been recognized in their new gender role by the Church. Many people wrongly feel that individuals who transition and have gender reassignment feel that God has made a mistake. In my case I felt it was a birth defect and that was addressed to better my ablity to live a happy and fulfilled life.

 

[speakttruth]

HI,
Pretty much under the same issue with homosexuality and it’s teachings. They are mutilating and perverting the God given body that was given to them.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Random question but I was thinking- the Church has issued many a statement on homosexuality and sexual issues, but I was wondering if there has been any specific teachings or discussion within the Church about transsexuality and the issues surrounding it?

I ask this for personal reasons but also general curiousity.

Currently I have not seen anything: however if something does come out the premise will most likely follow that of homosexuality in that a person’s attractions and beliefs regarding their sexual orientation does not render void their responsibility to act in accordance with Christ’s commandments.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

HI,
Pretty much under the same issue with homosexuality and it’s teachings. They are mutilating and perverting the God given body that was given to them.

Hi, please learn what transsexuality is before commenting

 

[Theresa_Frances]

Hi, please learn what transsexuality is before commenting

Gender identity and sexuality are two completely different things. A person could be homosexual and transgendered. Thats is, wanting to be of a specific gender but being atracted to persons of the same gender the individual feels they are. Some are attracted to persons of the individuals former gender and are heterosexual in their new gender. In my experience, and many others I know, they would not want to be appreciated as a member of the gender they were buit rather of the gender to which they transition.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Gender identity and sexuality are two completely different things. A person could be homosexual and transgendered. Thats is, wanting to be of a specific gender but being atracted to persons of the same gender the individual feels they are. Some are attracted to persons of the individuals former gender and are heterosexual in their new gender. In my experience, and many others I know, they would not want to be appreciated as a member of the gender they were buit rather of the gender to which they transition.

Transsexuality is about a person identifying with a different gender, they feel as if they are supposed to be the other gender and feel uncomfortable as the gender they are.

 

[Theresa_Frances]

Transsexuality is about a person identifying with a different gender, they feel as if they are supposed to be the other gender and feel uncomfortable as the gender they are.

I agree. I wasn’t questioning that. I was just pointing out that it is not the same as homosexuality.

 

[CopticChristian]

Gender identity and sexuality are two completely different things. A person could be homosexual and transgendered. Thats is, wanting to be of a specific gender but being atracted to persons of the same gender the individual feels they are. Some are attracted to persons of the individuals former gender and are heterosexual in their new gender. In my experience, and many others I know, they would not want to be appreciated as a member of the gender they were buit rather of the gender to which they transition.

No external change will change the XY or XX of the individual. You can choose to name the external by whatever the external appears to be. The XY is what it is and the XX is what it is. Naming something does not change the inherent genetic make up.

 

[sojo]

I was recently going over an application, and it said: Sex: Male_____ Female______ Other______ . Outrageous!! I crossed out the ‘Other’, as there is only male and female. There is no other.

Incorrect. There is “both” – it is a sad fact but true. Even the chromosomes of some transgenders are muddled. Or the person “has” the Y chromosome but also has a genetic condition that totally turns off the Y chromosome so they are, in essence female.

It is not as cut and dry as we might all like. And if you are born with both female and male organs and have a muddled chromosomal match… then the parents either need to make a decision (and possibly guess wrong) or wait till the child grows up and chooses.

But sadly, no, we aren’t all born either male or female. Would that it would be so.

 

[CopticChristian]

Incorrect. There is “both” – it is a sad fact but true. Even the chromosomes of some transgenders are muddled. Or the person “has” the Y chromosome but also has a genetic condition that totally turns off the Y chromosome so they are, in essence female.

It is not as cut and dry as we might all like. And if you are born with both female and male organs and have a muddled chromosomal match… then the parents either need to make a decision (and possibly guess wrong) or wait till the child grows up and chooses.

But sadly, no, we aren’t all born either male or female. Would that it would be so.

As a Physician, having studied genetics provide me support for your statements about the turning off of the Y. I want to know from whence you got this information. I never heard of such a thing.

Mendel as you know was a Catholic Monk and he is the father of Genetics. I know about dominance, penetrance, sex chromosomes and the like as well as aberrations of XO turners syndrome and XXY or XY/XXY male phenotype Klinefelters syndrome, XYY males, XXX females and true hermaphroditism, XY androgen insensitivity syndrome, 46 XX Congenital Adrenal hyperplasia and others. If you are referring to XY androgen insensitivity, the Y is not turned off it is an insensitivity.

emedicine.medscape.com/article/924996-overview#a0101

The incidence is 1/20,000 live male births and is an exception to an adult making a choice. These are predetermined choices and these predeteremined choices are rare. This is not what aberrant behavior is about. It is interesting however not relevant to the discussion insofar as in these cases the genetics and the phenotype may be at odds.

I doubt that those with aberrant behavior would qualify as genetically determined by birth as some of these are. The notion that aberrant behavior of this type would mean that this behavior is then a disease and unfortunately that won’t work.

In other words the information is true, the notion that there are genetic variants is true however unrelated to the adult situation absent genetic predetermination known at birth. The aberrant behavior is chosen without any genetic predetermination.

 

[Bluegoat]

As a Physician…

In other words the information is true, the notion that there are genetic variants is true however unrelated to the adult situation absent genetic predetermination known at birth. The aberrant behavior is chosen without any genetic predetermination.

This is a silly statement for a doctor to make. It is totally possible to have a biological condition that is not caused by genetics. And it is totally possible to have a real “psychological” issue that impacts us in a way we cannot do anything about.

No one knows what causes transexuality or homosexuality. It could be related to chemical exposure in the womb, or even something about one’s formative experiences. Both of those things can affect the structure of the brain, and both are not something anyone chooses.

What we get to decide about is what we do when we find ourselves in such a position. But the best way to deal with it is less clear when we don’t really know the cause.

 

[OraLabora]

This is a silly statement for a doctor to make. It is totally possible to have a biological condition that is not caused by genetics. And it is totally possible to have a real “psychological” issue that impacts us in a way we cannot do anything about.

No one knows what causes transexuality or homosexuality. It could be related to chemical exposure in the womb, or even something about one’s formative experiences. Both of those things can affect the structure of the brain, and both are not something anyone chooses.

What we get to decide about is what we do when we find ourselves in such a position. But the best way to deal with it is less clear when we don’t really know the cause.

Agreed. I know of a case of a young boy (a relative) who’s mother desperately wanted a girl instead, and called him her “little girl”, dressed her in sissy and girl’s clothes, etc. The boy went on to have many gender identity issues later in life. This was happening in his most sensitive formative years. We simply don’t know enough about the brain to determine how events such as this or other forms of sexual abuse determine the wiring of the brain in its formative stages. The same goes for, as you point out, chemical influences, in utero hormone influences, etc.

The best we can do for folks with these afflictions is to act in a loving and accepting manner towards them, and to respect the choices they felt compelled to make in the context of their affliction no matter how much they grate against our own personal instinct. Until we can walk a mile in their shoes, we should refrain from judging.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Agreed. I know of a case of a young boy (a relative) who’s mother desperately wanted a girl instead, and called him her “little girl”, dressed her in sissy and girl’s clothes, etc. The boy went on to have many gender identity issues later in life. This was happening in his most sensitive formative years. We simply don’t know enough about the brain to determine how events such as this or other forms of sexual abuse determine the wiring of the brain in its formative stages. The same goes for, as you point out, chemical influences, in utero hormone influences, etc.

The best we can do for folks with these afflictions is to act in a loving and accepting manner towards them, and to respect the choices they felt compelled to make in the context of their affliction no matter how much they grate against our own personal instinct. Until we can walk a mile in their shoes, we should refrain from judging.

That’s morally repugnant to do such a thing and IMO that constitutes child abuse

 

[OraLabora]

That’s morally repugnant to do such a thing and IMO that constitutes child abuse

That’s indeed what I consider it. But you also have to look at it from the POV of the mother, who probably herself had major psychological issues, perhaps related to being abused herself. “Sin” often is related to dysfunctions passed on from generation to generation.

 

[Ciknay]

I actually recall a story about a boy who had to have his penis removed after an accident with a circumcision operation. The parents then raised him as a girl, due to him not having a penis, and removed his testicles. He was urinating through a surgically created hole in his groin. When he became older, he had a feeling of being the wrong sex, and knew that he was supposed to be a male. When this happened, his parents told him about the accident. He was given the option to have a vagina ‘created’ for him, or to restore his penis. He chose to restore his penis.

I think he is now happily married. There is a wiki article on it, but I can’t remember his name.

It shows how peoples sex isn’t necessarily their gender.

 

[Dale_M]

I think he is now happily married. There is a wiki article on it, but I can’t remember his name…

I think you are referring to David Reimer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Sadly, he committed suicide.at age 39. His story is tragic, and worse yet, not unique. Intersex children of questionable gender were routinely assigned a sex by doctors and/or parents up until the 1990s. We’ve learned since then that gender identity can’t be imposed from the outside without causing psychological distress.

 

[speakttruth]

That’s morally repugnant to do such a thing and IMO that constitutes child abuse

We are not judging when we are suppose to be charitable when we tell the truth. If a child has a healthy body and later feels he or she wants to change it because of feelings, then we don’t help them change it. It’s cruel. They have an emotional problem. Many of these people have sex changes come out later and say it didn’t help the problem, then they have already mutilated their bodies. Their sex is not the problem, it something that happened in their childhood.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

We are not judging when we are suppose to be charitable when we tell the truth. If a child has a healthy body and later feels he or she wants to change it because of feelings, then we don’t help them change it. It’s cruel. They have an emotional problem. Many of these people have sex changes come out later and say it didn’t help the problem, then they have already mutilated their bodies. Their sex is not the problem, it something that happened in their childhood.

I’m judging actions not the person, I feel very sorry for the mother likewise for the son, but in different ways.

 

[Theresa_Frances]

We are not judging when we are suppose to be charitable when we tell the truth. If a child has a healthy body and later feels he or she wants to change it because of feelings, then we don’t help them change it. It’s cruel. They have an emotional problem. Many of these people have sex changes come out later and say it didn’t help the problem, then they have already mutilated their bodies. Their sex is not the problem, it something that happened in their childhood.

It is not necessarily something that happened in childhood. It seems that most transgendered persons felt from their earliest memories that they identified as the opposite sex. My mother never encouraged my sense of being female and discouraged any consideration that I would transition until she and my father gained a better understanding of the issue. I don’t think it is cruel to help someone transition and have reassignment surgery. It seems more cruel to make them live an unhappy life yearning to be free to live and express themselves as members of the gender they truly feel they are. There are some who regret their surgery. That could be more attributed to the medical professionals not being totally discriminant in qualifying them as candidates for surgery.

 

[Theresa_Frances]

No external change will change the XY or XX of the individual. You can choose to name the external by whatever the external appears to be. The XY is what it is and the XX is what it is. Naming something does not change the inherent genetic make up.

Agreed that reassignment surgery does not change the genetic make up. I think it is also accepted by most medical professionals that an individuals genetic make up and outward physical characteristics do not necessarily determine their inner sense of gender. To this point there has never been a successful treatment for transsexual individuals other than transitioning and gender reassignment.