Has the Church issued any sort of teachings/doctrines about transsexuality?

[PJM]

=Kouyate42;8221175]Random question but I was thinking- the Church has issued many a statement on homosexuality and sexual issues, but I was wondering if there has been any specific teachings or discussion within the Church about transsexuality and the issues surrounding it?

I ask this for personal reasons but also general curiousity.

GOOGLE the USCCB web site. A few years back the Bisshops released a somewhat contrversial documenton this if my memory serves?

God Bless,
Pat

LOVE the sinner BUT HATE the sin… AMEN!

 

[Dale_M]

GOOGLE the USCCB web site. A few years back the Bisshops released a somewhat contrversial documenton this if my memory serves?

Searching the USCCB website will not help. The document you are referring was issued by the Vatican and distributed to the bishops, but under condition of secrecy (sub secretum.)

The document was leaked to a journalist at Catholic News Service, which ran an article in 2003 about its contents. However, that article is no longer hosted on the CNS website (their archives do not go back that far) and the document was never made public.

A third-party rendering of the CNS article is available:
ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html

 

[speakttruth]

It is not necessarily something that happened in childhood. It seems that most transgendered persons felt from their earliest memories that they identified as the opposite sex. My mother never encouraged my sense of being female and discouraged any consideration that I would transition until she and my father gained a better understanding of the issue. I don’t think it is cruel to help someone transition and have reassignment surgery. It seems more cruel to make them live an unhappy life yearning to be free to live and express themselves as members of the gender they truly feel they are. There are some who regret their surgery. That could be more attributed to the medical professionals not being totally discriminant in qualifying them as candidates for surgery.

I’m sorry, but it** is** a childhood trauma, just like homosexuality. Something happened to make them feel, feel is the word here, like they are another sex. Do you know for a fact that it is not some environmental factor? How are most children messed up, by adults or peers, or molestations. I am not talking about some percent of children that are born with both body parts. That is a birth defect. I am talking about a perfectly healthy baby, that has nothing wrong with them physically. I knew of one case that a man thought he should be a women, because when he was a little boy his father had a little girl and favored the little girl. So in his mind he thought if I were a little girl, my father would love me.

I don’t think God makes mistakes when he created man and women and these people that want to change their bodies have a serious emotional problem. Dr. Fitz gibbons who helps people with Same Sex Attraction is very good at helping the child who thinks they are another sex. If they catch them early enough they can get them back to the right gender. How many people do you know who have sex changes that live a good life, that was perfectly normal physically before they had this done? Look at Cher Bono’s child. Look at the way she was brought up and now she is a boy and doesn’t look too happy. Then they in reality become a lesbian, because now that are looking for a women, not a man. This is not what God intended for us to do. Mutilate our bodies, over feelings. Your argument would go with homosexuality that they think they were born this way, so let them be happy. Reality their is no happiness in that life or a person who wants to change their bodies into different sexes. Have you see on a cover of a magazine a women turned man, but kept his womb and got pregnant with another women as his wife, but he was showing off his stomach on the cover looking like a man other wise. This is what the world is encouraging. I have seen men want to be a women and they still look like a man with long hair and makeup. This is what God intended? I don’t think so.

As Catholics we are suppose to bring them to God and not encourage anyone to have their sex organs replaced. When a child is young we have more influence to help them. I have seen parents as young as nine let their children self identify as a homosexual and act like a boy. You really think this isn’t an emotional problem? Isn’t this what Satan tries to do to us? He deceives us in thinking the things that God has made is something bad. Any doctor that would change a person’s sex is doing it for the money. I am talking about someone who is a healthy physical person. You can change as many body parts, but it’s our DNA that won’t change.

 

[Bluegoat]

I’m sorry, but it** is** a childhood trauma, just like homosexuality. Something happened to make them feel, feel is the word here, like they are another sex. Do you know for a fact that it is not some environmental factor? How are most children messed up, by adults or peers, or molestations. I am not talking about some percent of children that are born with both body parts. That is a birth defect. I am talking about a perfectly healthy baby, that has nothing wrong with them physically. I knew of one case that a man thought he should be a women, because when he was a little boy his father had a little girl and favored the little girl. So in his mind he thought if I were a little girl, my father would love me.

I don’t think God makes mistakes when he created man and women and these people that want to change their bodies have a serious emotional problem. Dr. Fitz gibbons who helps people with Same Sex Attraction is very good at helping the child who thinks they are another sex. If they catch them early enough they can get them back to the right gender. How many people do you know who have sex changes that live a good life, that was perfectly normal physically before they had this done? Look at Cher Bono’s child. Look at the way she was brought up and now she is a boy and doesn’t look too happy. Then they in reality become a lesbian, because now that are looking for a women, not a man. This is not what God intended for us to do. Mutilate our bodies, over feelings. Your argument would go with homosexuality that they think they were born this way, so let them be happy. Reality their is no happiness in that life or a person who wants to change their bodies into different sexes. Have you see on a cover of a magazine a women turned man, but kept his womb and got pregnant with another women as his wife, but he was showing off his stomach on the cover looking like a man other wise. This is what the world is encouraging. I have seen men want to be a women and they still look like a man with long hair and makeup. This is what God intended? I don’t think so.

As Catholics we are suppose to bring them to God and not encourage anyone to have their sex organs replaced. When a child is young we have more influence to help them. I have seen parents as young as nine let their children self identify as a homosexual and act like a boy. You really think this isn’t an emotional problem? Isn’t this what Satan tries to do to us? He deceives us in thinking the things that God has made is something bad. Any doctor that would change a person’s sex is doing it for the money. I am talking about someone who is a healthy physical person. You can change as many body parts, but it’s our DNA that won’t change.

You are saying more than anyone knows. We don’t know that it is something that happens in childhood. We don’t know that it isn’t. There is some evidence to suggest there are physiological differences in the brains of adult transgendered and also homosexual persons. That could point to a number of possibilities.

You seems to be taking the answer you want, and assuming that the cause reflects that.

 

[speakttruth]

You are saying more than anyone knows. We don’t know that it is something that happens in childhood. We don’t know that it isn’t. There is some evidence to suggest there are physiological differences in the brains of adult transgendered and also homosexual persons. That could point to a number of possibilities.

You seems to be taking the answer you want, and assuming that the cause reflects that.

No I am not saying more than anyone knows, I’m saying more than you know, I have a son with SSA and I am educated in this area and familiar with the doctors who are involved with SSA and transgendered problems. I don’t just make it up and give advice with false compassion. The truth hurts. But I know that God doesn’t make mistakes and people do. We don’t use excuses to mutilate healthy bodies and if you look at the Courage Website, a Catholic apostilate,they lead you to Narth, and their are articles on the problems people face with transgendered problems and how they try and fix the problems, not the genitalia. If you knew your Catholic faith you wouldn’t encourage people to think they can just fix the problems with a sex change. God has a better plan. Him.

 

[speakttruth]

To this question. The Priest on this site gave this answer.

Re: transgener

---

Hi,

Attempting to change the sexual appearance of one’s body because of one “feelings" is like trying to make a square circle. Better to go with what God has already created. Even when a person goes through all the operations and plastic surgery, one’s DNA remains what one was born with. Besides not being honest, such attempts constitute sins of mutilation of the body.

Certainly, such feelings are a cross. But when one recognizes them as such, one can offer them to the Lord as a response for His sacrifices for us and they become acts of great love.
To understand this, one must recognize how loving God is and how our very existence is all about Him.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

---

Additional recent answers by Fr. Vincent Serpa

 

[Bluegoat]

No I am not saying more than anyone knows, I’m saying more than you know, I have a son with SSA and I am educated in this area and familiar with the doctors who are involved with SSA and transgendered problems. I don’t just make it up and give advice with false compassion. The truth hurts. But I know that God doesn’t make mistakes and people do. We don’t use excuses to mutilate healthy bodies and if you look at the Courage Website, a Catholic apostilate,they lead you to Narth, and their are articles on the problems people face with transgendered problems and how they try and fix the problems, not the genitalia. If you knew your Catholic faith you wouldn’t encourage people to think they can just fix the problems with a sex change. God has a better plan. Him.

I didn’t comment on any sort of surgical solutions. I commented directly on your statement that same sex attraction and feeling of being the wrong sex come from experiences in early childhood. Believe it or not, you are not the only one who has some knowledge in the subject - there is no good answer on what causes these issues. There is evidence, which is inconclusive, of a number of things. If you do have some conclusive evidence, do please give us the references. Not ones from Narth, maybe something from a reputable journal.

 

[speakttruth]

I didn’t comment on any sort of surgical solutions. I commented directly on your statement that same sex attraction and feeling of being the wrong sex come from experiences in early childhood. Believe it or not, you are not the only one who has some knowledge in the subject - there is no good answer on what causes these issues. There is evidence, which is inconclusive, of a number of things. If you do have some conclusive evidence, do please give us the references. Not ones from Narth, maybe something from a reputable journal.

I’m sorry Dr. Fitzgibbons is a well know figure and Narth are reputable resources and many that are listed on the Courage website. You can follow many of the links. An article by Paul Mchugh of St John Hopkins University in 2004 on a site Called First Things was very informative. I went to Dr. Fitzgibbons site and found this when I looked up transgendered problems. He is a staunch Catholic and I have heard him talk just recently and have talked to him personally. If you don’t have a loved one with this problem, then I suggest you can find out more about it. Homosexual problems are very similar to the Trans-gender problems in various ways. They have not affirmed their femininity or masculinity and these are the results. Some are worse than others. They are not born this way any more than a person with Same sex attraction is. Despite what may cause the problems of Trans-gender, you were sympathetic to having them change their sex. Their is clear evidence that doing so ,is more damaging to the person as they have found out after, and I have read testimonies that it didn’t fix the problem after they realized that it was too late and mutilated their bodies. Things don’t work right after that. I think the Fr. summed it up pretty well if your a Catholic. I know I am not the only one that has knowledge of the subject, your comments were about false sympathy and we don’t go by our feelings, we go by truth. God’s truth. We all have our crosses.

 

[Dale_M]

I’m sorry Dr. Fitzgibbons is a well know figure and Narth are reputable resources

Hm… perhaps they are well-known, but I think “controversial” would be a better description. They are decidedly out of the mainstream of psychological thinking.

But more to the point, transsexualism has nothing to do with homosexuality. Lumping the two together is misleading and will produce serious misunderstanding.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I’m sorry Dr. Fitzgibbons is a well know figure and Narth are reputable resources and many that are listed on the Courage website. You can follow many of the links. An article by Paul Mchugh of St John Hopkins University in 2004 on a site Called First Things was very informative. I went to Dr. Fitzgibbons site and found this when I looked up transgendered problems. He is a staunch Catholic and I have heard him talk just recently and have talked to him personally. If you don’t have a loved one with this problem, then I suggest you can find out more about it. Homosexual problems are very similar to the Trans-gender problems in various ways. They have not affirmed their femininity or masculinity and these are the results. Some are worse than others. They are not born this way any more than a person with Same sex attraction is. Despite what may cause the problems of Trans-gender, you were sympathetic to having them change their sex. Their is clear evidence that doing so ,is more damaging to the person as they have found out after, and I have read testimonies that it didn’t fix the problem after they realized that it was too late and mutilated their bodies. Things don’t work right after that. I think the Fr. summed it up pretty well if your a Catholic. I know I am not the only one that has knowledge of the subject, your comments were about false sympathy and we don’t go by our feelings, we go by truth. God’s truth. We all have our crosses.

John Heard:

In a new, timely intervention in ZENIT, the former president of NARTH indirectly clarifies the claims DREADNOUGHT has made about the links between NARTH / “reparative therapy” and Courage International. The former president confirms, indeed, that NARTH is a “non-religious” organisation. Curiously, however - and as DREADNOUGHTERS might have predicted - he then says:

“So when a 15-year-old boy goes to a priest and says, ‘Father I have these feelings, I have these temptations,’ that priest should say, 'you have a choice; if you don’t want to be gay there are things that you can do…Nicolosi said.”

As DREADNOUGHT has objected (and this interview demonstrates), NARTH’s impoverished, secular view of “sexual orientation”, and its “reparative therapies” are being recommended - via elements within the Courage leadership - for use by Catholic priests (perhaps even, given the context, recommended for use in the confessional).
Further, there appears to be no distinction in the NARTH president’s formulation between inclinations or “temptations” (which are “objectively” wrong) to homogenital acts (which are “intrinsically” wrong) and those “feelings” which might otherwise be experienced by same sex attracted individuals (same sex friendship, love, happiness in male company). There is also the sense, against the Catholic teaching on human sexuality and probably borrowed from the language of homoactivism, that one’s “feelings” or “temptations” are constitutive - that one might “be gay”, rather than merely same sex attracted at any given time. What is unique to NARTH is the sense that simply being “gay” (or, translated into Catholic language, simply experiencing same sex attractions) is pathological - and, perhaps by extension, sinful per se. This is what happens when the moral distinctions are forgotten. They are absolutely central to the Catholic teaching on human sexuality. They are very important to same sex attracted Catholics. When missing them, or obscuring them, NARTH approaches must stray from orthodoxy.
Even if the boy in the example experienced “temptations” to homogenital acts, then, he need not complain of “being gay” or “feeling gay”, rather he need only confess to sinning (on the properly Catholic view), like anyone else, and only if he has willfully sinned - by entertaining sinful thoughts, for instance, or by willfully participating in homogential acts. Only these acts are homosexual / (or more precisely) homogenital. He is, himself, simply male, Catholic, a penitent, etc. Indeed, the Catechism dictates, he must be “accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity”.
Where he merely experiences same sex attraction, a need to be close to another male, or to share a loving friendship, it would certainly seem that the Catechism exhortation to charity, alongside the teaching that every “sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” would make it imprudent (at the very least) for priests to recommend that he seek out “reparative therapy”. Certainly, where a priest urges only same sex attracted individuals to seek out “reparative therapy”, this might constitute that “unjust discrimination” which is prohibited in Catholic teaching.
DREADNOUGHT must ask again, then, what an obviously and avowedly “non-religious” (non-Catholic, for-profit)^ organisation is doing telling priests what to say to same sex attracted young men? Why should a good, holy priest credit the former NARTH president’s secular claims and recommend, without caveat, the anecdotally disturbing cluster of phenomena, the professionally doubted method called “reparative therapy”? Is it prudent for confessors to act as secular mental health counsellors, or to take their cues from the same? Why is Courage, an organisation attempting to establish itself as an apostolate, as an official organ of the Catholic Church, so closely linked with the founders and leaders of NARTH? On the DREADNOUGHTERS Facebook Group we have asked: “Does Courage Have A NARTH Problem?” The answer is becoming clearer, and it appears to be yes.

 

[speakttruth]

Dakota_Roberts:
Boy Dakota you get around don’t you.
Courage doesn’t push reparative therapy, they have some links to people who want it.
You don’t go to the Courage conferences do you? I just went to one a couple of weeks ago. I don’t know of any priests that push reparative therapy. They teach them about chastity, but they don’t rule out that with God people can correct their attractions to what they were intended to be. Did you read the article about trans gender surgery?
I am not pushing Narth. I personally don’t have an interest in him, but he challenges the gay activists who lie about homosexuality. So he is at least fighting for the right for people who want therapy and I am not sure what you are trying to prove here. I am trying to tell this person that the Catholic faith would not want us to push someone to change their gender. I think that the Fr. on this site was pretty clear. I don’t know why you would want to put down Courage the only apostlate approved by the Pontificate. Fr. Harvey the one that started this with Cardinal Cooke he will be a saint one day. Your bringing up different issues that have nothing to do with this topic. Do you believe in surgery?

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

I was recently going over an application, and it said: Sex: Male_____ Female______ Other______ . Outrageous!! I crossed out the ‘Other’, as there is only male and female. There is no other.

There definitely is an other:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter%27s_syndrome

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Boy Dakota you get around don’t you.
Courage doesn’t push reparative therapy, they have some links to people who want it.
You don’t go to the Courage conferences do you? I just went to one a couple of weeks ago. I don’t know of any priests that push reparative therapy. They teach them about chastity, but they don’t rule out that with God people can correct their attractions to what they were intended to be. Did you read the article about trans gender surgery?
I am not pushing Narth. I personally don’t have an interest in him, but he challenges the gay activists who lie about homosexuality. So he is at least fighting for the right for people who want therapy and I am not sure what you are trying to prove here. I am trying to tell this person that the Catholic faith would not want us to push someone to change their gender. I think that the Fr. on this site was pretty clear. I don’t know why you would want to put down Courage the only apostlate approved by the Pontificate. Fr. Harvey the one that started this with Cardinal Cooke he will be a saint one day. Your bringing up different issues that have nothing to do with this topic. Do you believe in surgery?

I appear to have posted in the wrong thread, please forgive me.

I absolutely support Courage, it is a great organization (however having links to NARTH pushes away the very people it seeks to help). Courage is currently looking for a home parish in my diocese, when it finds one and starts holding meetings I’ll be attending.

 

[Theresa_Frances]

Your bringing up different issues that have nothing to do with this topic. Do you believe in surgery?

Homosexuality and transsexuality are two different issues. Gender idendity is not the same as sexual preference. Surgery admidetly is a last resort and not asthetically effective in every case. In extreme cases the church will condone reassignment surgery. Those persons are encouraged to lead chaste lives. There are many people leading happy and fulfilled lives having transitioned and putting their past issues behind them.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Your bringing up different issues that have nothing to do with this topic. Do you believe in surgery?

Homosexuality and transsexuality are two different issues. Gender idendity is not the same as sexual preference. Surgery admidetly is a last resort and not asthetically effective in every case. In extreme cases the church will condone reassignment surgery. Those persons are encouraged to lead chaste lives. There are many people leading happy and fulfilled lives having transitioned and putting their past issues behind them.

In cases where babies are born with ambiguous genitalia and the parents have the genitals mutilated to be female, I support the ability of the child to have his genitalia changed back. In that case it isn’t so much gender reassignment as it is returning them back to how they were (like undoing a vasectomy for example). As to the rest of the cases more research is needed.

 

[Theresa_Frances]

Homosexuality and transsexuality are two different issues. Gender idendity is not the same as sexual preference. Surgery admidetly is a last resort and not asthetically effective in every case. In extreme cases the church will condone reassignment surgery. Those persons are encouraged to lead chaste lives. There are many people leading happy and fulfilled lives having transitioned and putting their past issues behind them.

In cases where babies are born with ambiguous genitalia and the parents have the genitals mutilated to be female, I support the ability of the child to have his genitalia changed back. In that case it isn’t so much gender reassignment as it is returning them back to how they were (like undoing a vasectomy for example). As to the rest of the cases more research is needed.

For those with gender identity issues, research has found no effective treatment other than corrective surgery and hormone therapy to bring the physical characteristics in alignment with the inner aspect of gender. It is corrective surgery not mutilaton. The earlier the issue is recognized and addressed the better the physical, mental, and social result.

 

[speakttruth]

Your bringing up different issues that have nothing to do with this topic. Do you believe in surgery?

Homosexuality and trans sexuality are two different issues. Gender identity is not the same as sexual preference. Surgery admittedly is a last resort and not aesthetically effective in every case. In extreme cases the church will condone reassignment surgery. Those persons are encouraged to lead chaste lives. There are many people leading happy and fulfilled lives having transitioned and putting their past issues behind them.

Who and how many? Were they deformed at birth or were they **healthy **babies and then after emotional problems wanted a sex change? Do you know of anyone personally? Where does the church condone reassignment surgery in special cases? Do any you have any evidence that all these people are leading happy lives? Fr. Vincent Serpa on this site disagrees with having someone mutilate their bodies and I agree with him. The DNA is what it is. Homosexuality and trans-sexuality are related issues. Some transgendered males who have same sex attraction want to become females. Have you people even looked at the studies? The gay activists push the trans-gender issue as well. Perfectly healthy people physically are mutilating their bodies to solve their emotional problems. Shame on those Doctors. Down the line they realize that this was not right, but it’s too late to go back and be completely normal, even though some have change back.

How is a women made to a man’s organ supposed to work in a women? What about a man that wants to be a women and has no reproductive abilities? This is not a healthy choice. How many have this late in life after they were married and have kids? This is a destructive choice and would ruin many families. Mom becomes Dad? Dad becomes Mom? As I said and I repeat as your Catholic faith should teach you, we all have crosses and this is one unfortunately for them. The earlier the better when they are children to help them. The major difference between trans gender is this is most likely due to the parents inability to either find the right doctors to help their child or go along with it.

I am not misleading that their are some common reasons that affect trans genders and homosexuals. It is still immoral to act out on both. They both have a gender issue problems. I believe the transgendered person have more emotional problems and obviously can’t accept their gender and want to change it. Homosexuals have a problem with being attracted to the wrong gender. If anyone would take a moment and actually read the article that I mentioned you would see pretty conclusive evidence that these problems with trans genders have emotional issues and are not born in the wrong body. Even now with birth defects they no longer just remove the body part, they wait and they didn’t before and that is where a lot of the future problems came from. www.firstthings.com , Paul McHugh of St John Hopkins University did a excellent write up on surgery for trans genders.

I am sure their are many other articles on this subject, but if they are bias to the gay agenda, I wouldn’t trust them. I don’t say I have all the answers, but I repeat, God doesn’t make mistakes we do, and their is no problem on this earth that he can’t help us with or help us carry our cross for our redemptions and our loved ones. :angel1:

 

[Bluegoat]

I am sure their are many other articles on this subject, but if they are bias to the gay agenda, I wouldn’t trust them. I don’t say I have all the answers, but I repeat, God doesn’t make mistakes we do, and their is no problem on this earth that he can’t help us with or help us carry our cross for our redemptions and our loved ones. :angel1:

So you also would not advocate, say, cochlear implants? That is surgery for a problem present at birth.

Personally, I don’t think that surgery is a great answer for transexuals, both theoretically and practically. But you are making claims that cannot be supported. In fact even the Narth website has articles that state that homosexuality is likely caused by an unknown combination of biological and environmental factors. And what is “correct” isn’t limited to DNA, otherwise the Church would teach that it is sinful to try to repair diseases caused by genetic factors, and it doesn’t.

I do think the attitude by a lot of Christians that one needs to clearly identify as male or female probably makes it a lot more uncomfortable for people who cannot, for any reason, do that easily. Maybe people would be a lot more willing to have a go at living chastely under those circumstances if they didn’t also have to pretend to identify with something they really don’t identify with, or be called “damaged and sinful”.

 

[speakttruth]

So you also would not advocate, say, cochlear implants? That is surgery for a problem present at birth.

Personally, I don’t think that surgery is a great answer for transexuals, both theoretically and practically. But you are making claims that cannot be supported. In fact even the Narth website has articles that state that homosexuality is likely caused by an unknown combination of biological and environmental factors. And what is “correct” isn’t limited to DNA, otherwise the Church would teach that it is sinful to try to repair diseases caused by genetic factors, and it doesn’t.

I do think the attitude by a lot of Christians that one needs to clearly identify as male or female probably makes it a lot more uncomfortable for people who cannot, for any reason, do that easily. Maybe people would be a lot more willing to have a go at living chastely under those circumstances if they didn’t also have to pretend to identify with something they really don’t identify with, or be called “damaged and sinful”.

That’s a silly question. I am talking about sex change surgery. You know think what you want, I think I made my point well enough for the people to realize we don’t use surgery to solve our emotional problems when it come to a sex change. Obviously you are not paying attention to the Fr. and as far as I am concerned I would never encourage someone to do that. It would be against my faith. I am not getting into other surgeries, that a whole different subject.

 

[Dale_M]

I am not getting into other surgeries, that a whole different subject.

Not necessarily. Persons who are transsexual often say that they have been so for as long as they can remember and commonly believe that they are suffering from a birth defect. Since the surgical correction of birth defects is generally accepted, why should the correction of a transsexual condition be different?

Of course, the cause of transsexualism is poorly understood. But during the past ten years studies (with, admittedly, a small number of cases) have pointed to changes made during in utero development. The exact interplay of genetics and environmental factors affecting this development, as well as the role of environmental factors during childhood, isn’t known. Still, there is enough reason to be cautious about precluding possible biological cause(s) of transsexualism.