Has the Church issued any sort of teachings/doctrines about transsexuality?

[Theresa_Frances]

Homosexuality and trans sexuality are two different issues. Gender identity is not the same as sexual preference. Surgery admittedly is a last resort and not aesthetically effective in every case. In extreme cases the church will condone reassignment surgery. Those persons are encouraged to lead chaste lives. There are many people leading happy and fulfilled lives having transitioned and putting their past issues behind them.

Who and how many? Were they deformed at birth or were they **healthy **

 

[benedictus2]

So male and female are options for people?

Here’s something on a lighter note.

So many people are pro-choice in every thing and every aspect of their lives and this story takes relativism to the edge.

A mother was walking with their new born baby on a pram. As expected a few passers by went googli goo and started commenting on how beautiful the baby is.

Someone asked: Is it a boy or a girl?

Mom answers: I don’t know yet. I will let the baby decide when it grows up.

 

[Hastrman]

Someone asked: Is it a boy or a girl?

Mom answers: I don’t know yet. I will let the baby decide when it grows up.

Other things we’ll soon see left up to children to choose:
Vertebrate or invertebrate?
Eukaryote or prokaryote?
Endotherm or exotherm?
Hunting omnivore or grazing ruminant?

Because hey, it’s all socially conditioned, right? Next they’ll be claiming you can choose whether to be made of matter or antimatter (the operation for that one doesn’t end well).

 

[benedictus2]

Other things we’ll soon see left up to children to choose:
Vertebrate or invertebrate?
Eukaryote or prokaryote?
Endotherm or exotherm?
Hunting omnivore or grazing ruminant?

Because hey, it’s all socially conditioned, right? Next they’ll be claiming you can choose whether to be made of matter or antimatter (the operation for that one doesn’t end well).

We of course hope they would go for vertibrate

 

[Dale_M]

Because hey, it’s all socially conditioned, right?

Well, no. From the accounts that I have read, most transsexuals see their situation as innate and not one of social conditioning. If anything, the social conditioning argument is used against transsexuals, with the contention being that parents just need to reinforce traditional gender roles or that psychological counseling will resolve the problem.

 

[Hastrman]

Well, no. From the accounts that I have read, most transsexuals see their situation as innate and not one of social conditioning. If anything, the social conditioning argument is used against transsexuals, with the contention being that parents just need to reinforce traditional gender roles or that psychological counseling will resolve the problem.

Well, unless someone can prove there is an actual anatomical problem, you are what your anatomy says you are. Therefore if you think different, you’re wrong, and therapy is called for.

I mean, I just feel that I was born to be a jaguar—a jaguar trapped in a human body. Plainly I should be given species-reassignment surgery, rather than counseling to reinforce “traditional hominid roles”.

 

[Dale_M]

Well, unless someone can prove there is an actual anatomical problem, you are what your anatomy says you are. Therefore if you think different, you’re wrong, and therapy is called for.

Therapy is certainly called for if anyone thinks they are transsexual. Such counseling is an important tool for determining if someone is actually transsexual or not. And, if it is determined that person may be transsexual, counseling can be invaluable in determining what course of action is best for an individual, given their particular life circumstances.

As for an anatomical difference which would explain transsexualism, the evidence is a bit scattered. During the past 10 years there has been a growing body of evidence to support such a difference, however the studies are small in scope since the number of transsexuals in a population is small.

Here is an earlier post which links to some of the studies:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4124038&postcount=13

 

[speakttruth]

-]/-]

speakttruth;8255890:

Homosexuality and trans sexuality are two different issues. Gender identity is not the same as sexual preference. Surgery admittedly is a last resort and not aesthetically effective in every case. In extreme cases the church will condone reassignment surgery. Those persons are encouraged to lead chaste lives. There are many people leading happy and fulfilled lives having transitioned and putting their past issues behind them.

When you ask who and how many, I don’t have official totals, but I personally know many women who were physically male who have had corrective surgery to reassign their gender. It is not the perfect solution in every case, but with proper screening it is the only known solution to address their suffering. I have experienced the issue myself and did not reach my decision to transition without spiritual, psychological, amd medical counseling and introspection. At present, the medical opinion is that a possible causative factor is that brain structures are not totally masculinized during in utero development. I transitioned 8 years ago, when I was 19, and have led a very happy life since then. My life has turned 180 degrees to the better and I feel the most important thing is that I am now able to be a more charitable and caring person to others. I am free of the issues that had me centered on my own concerns and a burden to my family. My understanding of the Church’s official concept is that in a secret letter to the bishops, Pope John Paul II while not permitting marriage, did acknowledge that in extreme cases gender reassignment would be warranted, but that the individual could not marry in the Church. I have not seen it, but have read that the letter was released by an Australian bishop.

Hi, Sorry for your pain and what you must have gone through. My analysis is going to be the same though. What situation would the Church allow for a sex change and where is this info. Where are these secret letters? If you cannot marry, then that for some would even be more traumatic to stay chaste. Some wanted children and since they have to remain chaste, why not accept the body your in and remain chaste. If you have a body of a man and change to a women that wants a man, to me it’s homosexual feelings that have acted out in a drastic way. Some studies suggest this. Unless you need corrective surgery, from a birth defect physically, I don’t believe that a healthy person should have sex change surgery.

Courage ministry would discourage a person who wanted to have this surgery. Many have regretted their decision later in life. If your DNA says your a man or a women, surgery is not going to change what you were born to be. I question the medical opinion that the brain chemistry is the cause for transsexual feelings. Feelings should never be the reasons to do anything that is against what God has created. That is a drastic and permanently damaging thing to do to a persons body, besides hormones the rest of your life. I don’t know what it feels like to be a trans gender and I have compassion for people with emotional problems. My son has SSA and feels this is normal to him. But it is not ok to act on it. That is my question for anyone who wants to go against what God has created us for. I speculate that someone changes their sex has to have a devastating effect on their family. Many of us have crosses and we have to carry them. If your living a chaste life and devoting yourself to God and living a Catholic life, then that will bring peace and joy. To me whatever brings you to God, good or bad is the happiness we should look for. I will pray for you.
God bless

 

[Theresa_Frances]

-]/-]
Hi, Sorry for your pain and what you must have gone through. My analysis is going to be the same though. What situation would the Church allow for a sex change and where is this info. Where are these secret letters? If you cannot marry, then that for some would even be more traumatic to stay chaste. Some wanted children and since they have to remain chaste, why not accept the body your in and remain chaste. If you have a body of a man and change to a women that wants a man, to me it’s homosexual feelings that have acted out in a drastic way. Some studies suggest this. Unless you need corrective surgery, from a birth defect physically, I don’t believe that a healthy person should have sex change surgery.

That is a drastic and permanently damaging thing to do to a persons body, besides hormones the rest of your life. I don’t know what it feels like to be a trans gender and I have compassion for people with emotional problems. My son has SSA and feels this is normal to him. But it is not ok to act on it. That is my question for anyone who wants to go against what God has created us for. I speculate that someone changes their sex has to have a devastating effect on their family. Many of us have crosses and we have to carry them. If your living a chaste life and devoting yourself to God and living a Catholic life, then that will bring peace and joy. To me whatever brings you to God, good or bad is the happiness we should look for. I will pray for you.
God bless

Thank you for understanding that my situation was a struggle and an emotional ordeal. I appreciate that you are sympathetic that I had to deal with it while I understand that you don’t agree with the decisions I have made. I truly appreciate that you should be entitled to have and express your oppinion on this matter. My only knowledge of the Pope’s letter is what I have read. I don’t know where and if it actually exists. As far as marriage, I don’t believe I would have married a woman had I remained physically male. There was no attraction on my part, and I don’t feel it would have been right to enter a relationship knowing how I felt. I also wouldn’t have fathered children, because I really don’t think I could have provided the proper family environment. My attraction to men is that of a heterosexual woman. I didn’t want men to react to me while I still lived as a male and never pursued my feelings until I was living as a girl. I know there are cases where individuals who have had reassignment sugery regret it at a later time. I don’t see that as applying to me. I really can’t predict the future, but my life has improved so much that I don’t forsee regretting my decision. I can’t really say I think I feel like a woman because who can say they know how anyone else feels. I just know that every part of me always told me that I wanted to live as a girl and that relating to society physically and socially as female seemed to fit my inner self more than living as a boy. All I could say to someone who can’t comprehend those feelings is to imagine yourself as you feel now, and to have the same feelings but have the oppopsite body parts. Words are just that, words. Referring to my surgery as a sex change carries a sentationalistic connotation of the way tabloid TV programs portray the subject. When I first saw shows about transsexuals when I was about 9, I was scared and afraid to realize my feelings were like the those of the people on those shows. The difference was that I didn’t wish to exist always in that life style and to be exhibitionistic about my situation and how it was resolved. In therapy I gained a different understanding of myself and the issue and felt almost a cleansing of my spirit to finally live as the person I knew myself to be. I do regret that the surgery was invasive and did result in sacrificing some portions of the male anatomy, but I also feel it could be justified as a resulting in a greater good. My hormone regimen is no different than that of any natal woman who for whatever reason does not have functioning ovaries. You are correct that there is a significant effect on the family. I have met late transitioners who have traumatized their families with their decisions and I do not agree that for them it is the proper thing to do. I wouldn’t have proceded with my transiton if I had not received my parents’ and brothers’ support. At first my parents were not in favor of me transitioning. After over 18 months of trying to have me accept my physical self they reluctantly agreed to me seeing a gender therapist. Even after my therapist’s recommendation that I transition, my mother hoped at each stage that I would reconsider. Without any other women in my immediate family I needed her to help me obtain the clothing and accessories I would need to start living as a girl. She was very reluctant to do that, but did out of a sense of duty. At the point I started working and living as a woman, my mother eventually became very supportive. My dad was actually supportive before my mom. My brothers had their issues but they too became very supportive. I come from a very conservative religious and poltical background. I understand and sympathize with you and hope for the best in dealing with your son’s issues and pray that he is able to find a way to to deal with them. There is much to be said on that. I was always, and I guess still am, of the oppinion that homosexual behavior was not the norm and frustrates natural processes. However, gaining an uinderstanding of my own issues has made me more open to understanding if not condoning their situation.

 

[JoArtist]

Perhaps this one…[BIBLEDRB]Deuteronomy 22:5 [/BIBLEDRB]
I could be wrong, it could have died out with the New Testament, or its literacy could’ve died out like the shrimp and slave laws.

cross dressing and transgender are very different things… most transgender folk do cross dress, but it is quite a different story to identify as the other gender, which is not needed to cross dress.

 

[speakttruth]

Thank you for understanding that my situation was a struggle and an emotional ordeal. I appreciate that you are sympathetic that I had to deal with it while I understand that you don’t agree with the decisions I have made. I truly appreciate that you should be entitled to have and express your oppinion on this matter. My only knowledge of the Pope’s letter is what I have read. I don’t know where and if it actually exists. As far as marriage, I don’t believe I would have married a woman had I remained physically male. There was no attraction on my part, and I don’t feel it would have been right to enter a relationship knowing how I felt. I also wouldn’t have fathered children, because I really don’t think I could have provided the proper family environment. My attraction to men is that of a heterosexual woman. I didn’t want men to react to me while I still lived as a male and never pursued my feelings until I was living as a girl. I know there are cases where individuals who have had reassignment sugery regret it at a later time. I don’t see that as applying to me. I really can’t predict the future, but my life has improved so much that I don’t forsee regretting my decision. I can’t really say I think I feel like a woman because who can say they know how anyone else feels. I just know that every part of me always told me that I wanted to live as a girl and that relating to society physically and socially as female seemed to fit my inner self more than living as a boy. All I could say to someone who can’t comprehend those feelings is to imagine yourself as you feel now, and to have the same feelings but have the oppopsite body parts. Words are just that, words. Referring to my surgery as a sex change carries a sentationalistic connotation of the way tabloid TV programs portray the subject. When I first saw shows about transsexuals when I was about 9, I was scared and afraid to realize my feelings were like the those of the people on those shows. The difference was that I didn’t wish to exist always in that life style and to be exhibitionistic about my situation and how it was resolved. In therapy I gained a different understanding of myself and the issue and felt almost a cleansing of my spirit to finally live as the person I knew myself to be. I do regret that the surgery was invasive and did result in sacrificing some portions of the male anatomy, but I also feel it could be justified as a resulting in a greater good. My hormone regimen is no different than that of any natal woman who for whatever reason does not have functioning ovaries. You are correct that there is a significant effect on the family. I have met late transitioners who have traumatized their families with their decisions and I do not agree that for them it is the proper thing to do. I wouldn’t have proceded with my transiton if I had not received my parents’ and brothers’ support. At first my parents were not in favor of me transitioning. After over 18 months of trying to have me accept my physical self they reluctantly agreed to me seeing a gender therapist. Even after my therapist’s recommendation that I transition, my mother hoped at each stage that I would reconsider. Without any other women in my immediate family I needed her to help me obtain the clothing and accessories I would need to start living as a girl. She was very reluctant to do that, but did out of a sense of duty. At the point I started working and living as a woman, my mother eventually became very supportive. My dad was actually supportive before my mom. My brothers had their issues but they too became very supportive. I come from a very conservative religious and poltical background. I understand and sympathize with you and hope for the best in dealing with your son’s issues and pray that he is able to find a way to to deal with them. There is much to be said on that. I was always, and I guess still am, of the oppinion that homosexual behavior was not the norm and frustrates natural processes. However, gaining an uinderstanding of my own issues has made me more open to understanding if not condoning their situation.

Again I am sorry for your pain, I guess when the time comes you will know what God really wanted us to do. Until then, may God bless you and be holy
God Speed.

 

[mathematoons]

Maybe you’re looking for this?

ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html

I googled “Catholic transsexual document” and came up with the document quoted on a website that’s very pro-transsexual, but here is the document. Sadly, most Catholics with gender issues prefer to leave the Church over it rather than do whatever it takes to stay in. They turn their backs on God to worship the gender idol.

Here’s what the Catechism has to say, quoted in this blog:

catechismoncall.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/a-catholic-look-at-the-transgender-issue/

The whole thing is nuts. It’s the same kind of pride that got Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden of Eden: “Did God really make you male/female?” A look at Genesis 1:27 says yes.

Human-made systems of morality get us nowhere–not just secularism, but anything without clear boundaries. Only God has the answers.

 

[speakttruth]

Maybe you’re looking for this?

ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html

I googled “Catholic transsexual document” and came up with the document quoted on a website that’s very pro-transsexual, but here is the document. Sadly, most Catholics with gender issues prefer to leave the Church over it rather than do whatever it takes to stay in. They turn their backs on God to worship the gender idol.

Here’s what the Catechism has to say, quoted in this blog:

catechismoncall.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/a-catholic-look-at-the-transgender-issue/

The whole thing is nuts. It’s the same kind of pride that got Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden of Eden: “Did God really make you male/female?” A look at Genesis 1:27 says yes.

Human-made systems of morality get us nowhere–not just secularism, but anything without clear boundaries. Only God has the answers.

I agree. I believe just like all the other unnatural immoral behavior, that because everything is about feelings instead of the reality and the use of our intelligence that the world is being deceived by the devil and is going to take many souls. Where is it in the scriptures where it says woe to those who say good is evil and evil is good. This is the reality. We have a world turned upside down right now with all these lies.

Their is no doubt that God created us in his image and likeness of himself. He created them man and women. No matter what we feel that we are the reality is what we were born with. We do not take a perfectly created body with no birth defects that says we are a women or man and then change it according to our feelings. We must continue to pray for these people and all souls that are being deceived by the devil. Many people do not want to take up their cross. We are as humans trying to fix everything ourselves, but the fact is that we can’t do anything by ourselves. When the created thinks he knows more than the creator, this is what we have. It all about ,Me, me, me. Not God. Little God’s running around all messed up with the devils empty promises. Isn’t Jesus our Saviour? Isn’t he the one we should run to? Not drugs, alcohol, sex, material objects, food, and false Gods? If more people knew the solution to their problems would be taken care of by Jesus, then we would not have what we have now.

God made doctors to be sure, but if you really had God in your life, you wouldn’t need Doctors and physiologist to help you escape from reality. I don’t like what I am or how I look, or how I feel, so let’s have man take care of it? No, only God can help you to discern what is right and wrong. Satan has people rushing around trying to fix everything themselves and actually ending up with nothing, but hell in eternity with him. He is the deceiver, the liar. Satan wants our souls. He will promise you everything for your soul and because he comes in many influences we think it is us that is making the real decision. Our free wills can be influenced by good or evil and if your too blind to see the truth and you have a weakness, then he goes after it.
Love and compassion is what is called for, but love in the truth is absolutely essential and we must never turn away from the truth. Truth is Jesus and he no matter how he was treated never turned away from it. We must do the same. Souls depend on our help to pray for them.
Thanks for the info.
God bless

 

[CloisteredMom]

I did a search on the forum and it led me here. Last Easter our successful 24 year old engineer son gave us the shock of our lives when he flew home and said he was transgender. We never had a clue about it as he grew up (no female mannerisms, behavior, etc.) but he swears he is a she. He is going through the legal process to become female, and maybe at a later date will do the surgery also. This has been a devastating grief to our family, which I won’t go into here. But I had questions on how the church views him–from what I’m reading, the church will still see him as male? He is currently dating a female, so am I understanding correctly that if he continues to date females, the church would see that as okay? Could he/she even get married though he dresses as female, takes female hormones, etc. since the church would still view him as a male? The world would see him as a lesbian so I am confused.

 

[Dale_M]

CloisteredMom, I am sorry that your family is going through this wrenching experience. Truly, such a change affects everyone and brings with it pain and hardship for all.

The Catholic Church does not have an explicit policy on transsexualism. The discussions you will read here are largely reasoned arguments, and are based upon interpreting other Church teachings as they might apply to transsexuals.

However, eight years ago there was a news leak about a secret Vatican policy which had been distributed to the bishops. That policy, which was issued sub secretum (Under secrecy) has never been made public. However, if the policy does exist then this news report is our best guide to learning its contents.

Because it was issued so long ago, the original article is no longer hosted on the website of the Catholic News Service. However, I remember reading the article so many years ago and I believe this reproduction of it is an accurate rendering.
ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html

(Note: the website hosting that reproduction is pro-transsexual)

Here are some key excerpts from the article:

“The altered condition of a member of the faithful under civil law
does not change one’s canonical condition, which is male or female as
determined at the moment of birth,” Bishop Gregory wrote.

It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain
extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will “cure” the
patient’s internal turmoil.

A conclusion that people who have undergone a sex-change operation
cannot enter into a valid marriage, either because they would be
marrying someone of the same sex in the eyes of the church or because
their mental state casts doubt on their ability to make and uphold
their marriage vows.

 

[mathematoons]

I did a search on the forum and it led me here. Last Easter our successful 24 year old engineer son gave us the shock of our lives when he flew home and said he was transgender. We never had a clue about it as he grew up (no female mannerisms, behavior, etc.) but he swears he is a she. He is going through the legal process to become female, and maybe at a later date will do the surgery also.

Here are some helpful sites:

sexchangeregret.com/
sexchangeinfo.com/
tradingmysorrows.com/

They’re all by the same person–a man who transitioned to female and back. Get the books and show them to your son.

 

[speakttruth]

The Priest on this site was asked that question and it is wrong and it doesn’t change the gender because of surgery. DNA doesn’t change. Never should it be allowed for any reason. No physically healthy individual because of emotional problems should ever be encourage to have a sex change. It is a mortal sin, because you are mutilating your body and you become sterile.

 

[mgreen77]

Here are some helpful sites:

sexchangeregret.com/
sexchangeinfo.com/
tradingmysorrows.com/

They’re all by the same person–a man who transitioned to female and back. Get the books and show them to your son.

Wow, in reading those sites, it seems he thought the surgery would change his chromosomes and that they would “use female parts,” whatever that means. And both his essays and the letters he quoted make it seem like these people expected “being a woman” to be a playground of high heels, skirts and makeup.

Caveat Emptor.

Their naivety and unrealistic expectations are almost child-like. I’m sure there are informed and educated people who regret going through the process, but the people on that site seem to have more problems to overcome than just gender identity.

 

[speakttruth]

Wow, in reading those sites, it seems he thought the surgery would change his chromosomes and that they would “use female parts,” whatever that means. And both his essays and the letters he quoted make it seem like these people expected “being a woman” to be a playground of high heels, skirts and makeup.

Caveat Emptor.

Their naivety and unrealistic expectations are almost child-like. I’m sure there are informed and educated people who regret going through the process, but the people on that site seem to have more problems to overcome than just gender identity.

So sad to see so many that have been lied too. If your only recreating the same body parts it’s like having face lift or any other surgery that makes you appear different, but you are the same dna and that will never change. So you are wearing a mask because that doesn’t change what you are to begin with. They don’t mention that because they mutilate your body parts, they become sterile too. Look at that women Chastity, you think she is happy? You can see what is her problem, her mother and her father. I pray for all these misquided people. God help us all.

 

[pepipop]

Wow, in reading those sites, it seems he thought the surgery would change his chromosomes and that they would “use female parts,” whatever that means. And both his essays and the letters he quoted make it seem like these people expected “being a woman” to be a playground of high heels, skirts and makeup.

Caveat Emptor.

Their naivety and unrealistic expectations are almost child-like. I’m sure there are informed and educated people who regret going through the process, but the people on that site seem to have more problems to overcome than just gender identity.

I came across this article today regarding transexualism TS) and then this thread when I searched TS and the church’s position on it.
dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2094296/Cambell-Kenneford-16-reveals-Lady-Gaga-inspired-sex-change.html

From my own observations of stories and documentaries regarding this issue, it always seems to revolve around sex. I feel that a lot of male to female TS view being female as a more ‘sexual’ and exciting role (looking at marylin monroe or other media ‘sex’ symbol role models) - as opposed to a hard working single Mum with three kids, or a holy nun. The male to female TS all seem to wear very heavy makeup and wear very immodest clothing - really absolutely nothing to do with being ‘female’, just a stereotypical ‘betty boop’ charicature of a female. It seems to be with looking ‘sexually’ attractive as a female and possibly they perceive females are the more sexual of the two sexes.

This is my opinion only and although I have never met a TS, I would be totally sympathetic with their predictment - as at who am I to judge. I remember my brother telling me of a work colleague at his company, which was 98% male engineers, who on a Friday left work as Sam and then returned on Monday as Samantha. He had not told anyone at work and purportedly had to live as a female for 2 yrs before he would be allowed hormone treatment. I felt so sorry for him it did make me want to cry for him, as he’ came into work with ‘pancake thick’ makeup (as he had not taken hormones yet), a short mini skirt and stilletos. But why did he not wear a female trouser suit - again a hypersexualisation view of the ‘female’ identity?

I’m certain if a female engineer had come into work with a mini skirt and stilettos on she would be brought aside and told to change her attire for work.

Funnily enough, I told this story to a engineer friend in another country and two engineers in this workplace had also become TS, which to date has been a male dominated profession.