Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

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So I ask another question.
Who represents the community that someone can turn to? Representatives at its smaller ,closer circle so that someone can turn to if sth needs to change?
The people are agents of change…we,us.
 
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Clearly, what most posters seem to be wanting is greater clarity in terms of how justice and fairness would resolve the issue.
If you put a hand on someone, it is up to you to be very certain that the person will welcome it, as sure as if you were dealing with a person with the power to hire you or fire you.

If you are going to make remarks of an extremely personal kind–so personal that they could even be described as sexual–then you had better be as sure that your comments are welcome, just as sure as if you were talking to the person who has the power to hire you or fire you.

If you are not sure, don’t do it.

See? Wasn’t that easy? It works for men, it works for women, it works for heterosexuals, it works for homosexuals.

When our jobs are on the line because we’re dealing with someone in authority, somehow we know what respect is. When we imagine that the person we are taking liberties with can’t do anything about it if we cross a line, then we act confused. There really is no reason to be confused.

What about when it comes to who to believe when there are accusations? Again, is it that hard when it comes to money missing from a purse or a wallet? Yes, there is a responsibility to be careful about who you trust around that which is important to you, but there is also a certainty that when coworkers constantly grumble that someone can’t be left alone with their valuables that there might be something to the complaints. You realize both that there could have been a mistake and that most people aren’t in the habit of making false accusations about money missing from their wallets.

It is like the sexual abuse scandals having to do with children. Yes, you can forgive someone who embezzled money. No, you don’t allow them to be tellers at banks in the future. When trust is violated, there are reasonable consequences.

So people…if the people at work were complaining that money was disappearing from their personal effects, how would you handle that? Would you be more concerned that you might be accused or more concerned that there is someone roaming around at work helping themselves to what doesn’t belong to them or somehow concerned that everyone at work had developed a paranoia about their money or that a dozen people had suddenly decided to go on a witch hunt against someone they didn’t like?

The MeToo movement ought to be taken as a sign that this is not rare. I don’t know any women who say that all men do it, particularly not in a work setting. It is more something that happens when someone in a position of power feels he or she has immunity from any consequences of abuse of power.

I’m not thinking there will be push-back from men who don’t want to be told to be respectful. I think it is more likely there will be an expansion to “what about those who think verbal abuse is OK, as long as it is aimed at a man, because somehow we’re ‘less sensitive’ and ‘can take it’? How about we stop acting as if men want to be treated as if they don’t care how you talk to them or whether they are shown respect?”
 
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LOL. My state does not even have assault and battery as a crime. I am afraid you are mistaken. The law for assaults of all flavors, including sexual assault are set by each state legislature. There is no such thing as a state law applicable in all 50 states, and very few assaults are federal crimes.
I’m well aware the state laws vary, or else I wouldn’t have said that punishments vary from state-to-state. To my knowledge, no one ever suggested assault or battery was a federal crime. There are penalties for assault and battery in all states, however, no matter what it might be called:


New York is a little different:

In New York State assault as defined in the New York State Penal Code Article 120, requires an actual injury. Other states define this as battery. There is no crime of battery in New York. The threat of imminent injury without physical contact in New York is called menacing.

What kind of state wouldn’t have assault and battery, or menacing, as a crime? Some states have more liberal laws than others, but the US, so far, is not a lawless land. In no state is it legal to threaten and batter a person.
 
LOL Texas assault and battery laws:


I admit, Texas can seem pretty lawless to the uninitiated, but it does have laws that punish assault and battery as criminal offenses even if they do lump them all into “assault.”

In Texas, the elements for a case against a defendant for assault and battery are the same, although there are many different classifications for different degrees of the offense (charged as “assault” even if battery does occur). For example, threatening someone with bodily harm in Texas may just result in a fine, while causing bodily harm against someone (typically charged as “battery” in other states) can land you in jail for up to one year.

Seems to me, someone who landed in jail for a year has been convicted as a crime. You can check Texas Penal Code § 22.01, et seq.

a you can see, in Texas “assault” can be a misdemeanor, a third, a second, or a first degree felony. Those are all criminal.
 
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Harry, it’s getting so a man can’t even good-naturedly pat a woman on the back and say “good job!” any longer without being accused of harassment. Or compliment her new dress or hair style without being accused of sexual harassment. Unless the person is a minor, I think people are just too sensitive or need more to fill out their day.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
What happened to me wasn’t assault and battery. I know. I was there.
The bar is pretty low for what qualifies as battery, touching someone without consent is enough, or spitting. Thankfully people rarely try to make a case out of such benign encounters.
 
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I admit, Texas can seem pretty lawless to the uninitiated, but it does have laws that punish assault and battery as criminal offenses even if they do lump them all into “assault.”

In Texas, the elements for a case against a defendant for assault and battery are the same, although there are many different classifications for different degrees of the offense (charged as “assault” even if battery does occur). For example, threatening someone with bodily harm in Texas may just result in a fine, while causing bodily harm against someone (typically charged as “battery” in other states) can land you in jail for up to one year.

Seems to me, someone who landed in jail for a year has been convicted as a crime. You can check Texas Penal Code § 22.01, et seq.
ConstantLearner,

With all due respect, everything you’ve said about the law has been about what is on the books, not how things work in practice.
 
Harry, it’s getting so a man can’t even good-naturedly pat a woman on the back and say “good job!” any longer without being accused of harassment.
🙋 Didn’t you just spend a great many posts explaining to me that any touch is battery?

Being an internet very expensive lawyer is hard.
 
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The bar is pretty low for what qualifies as battery, touching someone without consent is enough, or spitting. Thankfully people rarely try to make a case out of such benign encounters.
I think some people don’t understand that battery does not have to mean black eyes and bruises. They hear the word “battery” and they assume broken bones and similar injuries. They don’t seem to understand that if you tell someone “Don’t touch me,” and they do, even lightly, that is battery.
 
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There are a lot of contradictory social expectations, both here in this thread and society at large.

Women are supposed to a) deal with everything by themselves and b) report every minor unpleasant interaction. Women also need to a) just ignore bad actors and b) stand up for themselves.

Admittedly, any of those pieces of advice have a time and place where they are appropriate, but I think people don’t see the contradictions or remember that there are judgment calls involved. Women (especially inexperienced young women or girls) may accidentally follow the wrong script–deal with things they should report and report things they should just deal with or ignore behavior that is unacceptable or stand up for themselves in such a way that they are in danger. There are no cue cards telling you which is which.
 
There are no cue cards telling you which is which.
We learn walking the walk.
In any case not sitting down doing nothing.
Including,getting into the mud…mistakes and all.
 
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HarryStotle:
Real men won’t sit back and be told who and what they will be by women, just because women want them that way.
Hey, how do True Scotsmen feel about it?

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia
I wasn’t making a logical case. Logical fallacies only apply to logical arguments.

Take another example:

If I were to say, " A judge who clearly knows the constitution and legal system (or alternatively, a truly “just” judge) would not have made the ruling.

Would you claim there is no such thing as a truly just judge as opposed to an unjust one and there is no way to tell the difference between them? Ergo, we couldn’t know what a just judge would rule, and therefore we have no idea what it means to be “just.”

Or another example:

If I were to say, “A truly moral person wouldn’t do such a thing.”

Would you say that is an example of a “truly moral person” fallacy?

So there is no way of telling how a truly moral person would act in any situation? Ergo, no such thing as “true morality?”

Are you certain you want to go there?
 
It happened a while ago so I was taking the bus to school. So it was before I could drive.i know when I got my license, and I know when I got my car.
I didn’t see what happened as a crime them, I don’t see it now. A bus is a public space. As is the Street he was on. He didn’t touch me on the bus he just kept trying to speak to me and to compliment me. He got off at my stop, kept talking and took hold of my forearm.

If he had taken my purse, or squeezed hard, or pushed me or grabbed me inappropriately it would have been a clearer example of “assault.”

But lo and behold, I didn’t even think it was a MeToo episode. I thought it was an example of someone not behaving in a socially acceptable way. Don’t follow women, don’t touch them. Don’t ask strangers on the bus for a date.

But I totally get why people keep things to themselves.
 
Thank you for explaining further.
Would a parent at the bus stop for a while have helped? Asking mom or dad just to be there for a while… even maybe inside their cars but visible
What are your thoughts today. ?,if you feel like sharing them…
 
Both my parents worked at the time. I think I was about 19 or 20, so not a child but I still lived at home.
 
Real men won’t sit back and be told who and what they will be by women, just because women want them that way.
If there’s systematic destructive behavior occurring to either oneself or others, their spouse has every right to tell them to change.
 
I had the picture of a school bus in my mind.I am sorry… Those yellow buses…
As parents we also have choices and this is just a conversation detached from your case,OK. It is over now
Here is a bit where networks of trust chime in. It wasn t rare that one needed help in the workplace when an important issue demanded that we asked our bosses for a minute ,explained a serious case and counted on their understanding to arrive a bit late for good reason we knew about…
Just opening windows …and thinking.
I am sorry you had to go through this alone.

Here is another case. A stalker ,my parents knew,and proceeded to provide every necessary help…That age,20. Very diffficult times politically.
Till he stood outside the workplace waiting for me.
I went to my boss,explained the case. Here is what he said: You will leave earlier ,use the back door,and take this and this road back home( I lived a few blocks away). And he added that he would be there watching at the front door where this guy was. My boss was a very big and tall man," intimidating" in size 🙂
Needless to say,I remember this boss dearly.
 
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The point I was making is that when you say “Real men won’t sit back and be told who and what they will be by women, just because women want them that way,” you’re suggesting that men who actually do behave in a civil, gentlemanly, and appropriate fashion aren’t “real men.”

Do you realize how insulting that is to men who aren’t going around harassing, pawing and raping?

Is harassing, pawing and raping a necessary qualification for being a “real man”?
 
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