Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

[starshiptrooper]

I swear these folks must have watched Demolition Man and thought, “Yes, this is the type of world I want to live in.”

 

[ConstantLearner]

One would come to that assumption, deny though they will.

 

[F_Marturana]

That happens to me to. I responded once to a question someone was asking to their phone friend. They were right near me, I thought they asked me something. Thankfully they were too engrossed to notice me.

 

[Xantippe]

Good grief! Kind of kills any kind of spontaneity, doesn’t it? Feminism has shot itself in the foot as far as I’m concerned.

Whether a “spontaneous” kiss is nice or not depends on how you feel about the guy doing it. A spontaneous kiss from a person you don’t want to be spontaneously kissed by could be really gross.

And this isn’t just a woman thing–my husband was once appalled to find himself on the receiving end of a surprise social kiss from a South American woman. It happened to be part of her culture, but not part of my husband’s and he flinched visibly. Husband also really hates being touched by other men, so Edmundus’s hearty back pats would be a problem. I’m also not crazy about being touched by random people, and I can go months without voluntarily touching anybody who isn’t my husband or kids.

Related–a number of people who live at my house hate surprise touch. So I’ve actually gotten into the habit of asking people at my house (including the kids) if I can hug them, because there’s nothing worse than going to hug somebody and having them jump or flinch and squawk.

None of this is particularly unusual–a lot of people hate being touched unexpectedly or by people they aren’t close to. Also, sensory sensitivity is a thing

Edited to add: Also, as we were discussing earlier, there’s a minority of people with strong beliefs about saving kissing for marriage, and it could be deeply wounding to somebody like that to have that “first” taken away from them against their will.

 

[Xantippe]

Yup, you are expected to be initiating, escalating and spontaneous and timing it perfectly. If you misread a social cue, you are now rapist. That sounds like so much fun.

It’s a whole lot more fun than PTSD or accidentally giving somebody PTSD.

 

[Xantippe]

SST,

Isn’t there a problem in that you are

a) scared to death of false rape accusations

but

b) at the same time, you don’t want to have to do anything differently than you are now?

If false rape accusations are as much of an epidemic as you think they are, perhaps you need to modify your behavior?

 

[DarkLight]

It can work for the young men if it’s done right, but it takes someone who is skilled and knows what he is doing to pull it off. The behavior described on here is not that.

I have had cold approaches from young men that, while they didn’t work, I could have seen working if things were different (i.e. I was looking and didn’t have hard rules that would have ruled out the guy I was talking to).
The key differences were that they made an honest attempt to have a conversation with me, didn’t presume to be overtly sexual, and didn’t attempt to bother or insult me if I indicated I didn’t want to talk.

If a man is gentlemanly and civil merely because he has been told to be such by those around him, he is not a real man. He is a puppet, regardless of his apparent civility.

One point here is a civil individual will, if told that other people do not in fact appreciate a certain behavior, he will change it. But let’s be honest, the #metoo movement isn’t aimed at the civil gentleman - it’s aimed at removing shelter from the boor who pretends to be one in front of other men.

 

[Lea101]

Plus it is also inappropriate if you’re only giving ‘friendly’ hugs, pats and giving compliments to women tbh

 

[Xantippe]

Plus it is also inappropriate if you’re only giving ‘friendly’ hugs, pats and giving compliments to women tbh

That’s a really good point.

Is the guy also hugging Steve, patting Chris, and telling Todd his new haircut and shoes are FABULOUS?

Frankly, that doesn’t sound super heterosexual.

 

[SuperLuigi]

As I recall, there was some kind of a formal event that involved screaming at the sky.

Guess that’s what we can expect from members of a society who think waste products are art.

 

[Cruciferi]

I only yell at the sky during tax season

 

[SuperLuigi]

If false rape accusations are as much of an epidemic as you think they are, perhaps you need to modify your behavior?

Do you really want to go there?

The modification to this is to not associate with feminists or even women on college campuses.

I see cats, lots of pretty kitties, in the future for people like that,

 

[SuperLuigi]

It’s a whole lot more fun than PTSD or accidentally giving somebody PTSD.

If you get PTSD from someone missing a social cue, seek professional help ASAP.

Really, Xantippe, cut the nonsense. SST has some good points.

 

[HarryStotle]

Internalized virtue is a best case scenario–but behaving properly because those are the rules of one’s society and culture is also not to be sneezed at. And realistically, people typically start by doing the right thing, and then only later acquire the internal virtues associated with doing the right thing. (Example: small children are made to say “thank you” even when they don’t feel thankful, in order to help them eventually develop a feeling of gratitude.)

I have to say that the ideas that you are outlining sound a lot closer to Nietzscheanism than to conservatism or Catholicism or pretty much any form of Christianity or traditional belief. Doing the right thing is good, even when it’s not part of some sort of reevaluation of all values/will to power dealio.

Are you implying that Catholicism or Christianity are not terribly concerned about sincerity or personal integrity, but merely outward appearances? Provided that you act as if you are a gentleman or respectful, it doesn’t matter what the inside of the cup is like?

What were Jesus’ words to the Pharisees about whited sepulchers, the insides of which are filled with dead men’s bones?

 

[Edmundus1581]

I only yell at the sky during tax season

Just FYI, that’s part of the cost of being an American. From what I’ve heard the IRS and tax system are formidable. In Australia it doesn’t matter if you’re a few days later, or even months so long as you don’t owe money. If you do owe money, the worst that will happen is you’ll have to pay interest from the day the it was due. Similarly for mistakes - no big deal. If you end up owing money then you just pay it. If you can’t afford back payments, then they’ll give you a two year payment plan.

So long as you’re not deliberately gaming the system for big money, our taxation department are very cooperative.

We don’t even have a “tax season”. Try to get it in by October 31st (the normal date), but don’t sweat it.

 

[PetraG]

So let me put on my best Cathy Newman impression…

So what you are saying is that “respect” demands that we should always act in a rigid formal manner (i.e., in the same way we would act with an important client or boss) no matter who we are with and no matter how “familiar” the person is to us? The workplace should never take on a more personal atmosphere?

I thought progressive, modernist types didn’t like Victorian England?

I guess I had you pegged all wrong.

I’ll have to remind myself not to stereotype individuals because individuals are not all the same. Just like men are not all the same and women are not all the same.

No, it means that you take the trouble to form a relationship with people before you presume to get all chummy.

I really fail to see how this is all that difficult. I guess I’m a teacher and we learn how to have personal relationships without making personal remarks (let alone physical overtures) to our students and colleagues. This is a relationship cultivated to make the students comfortable telling us whatever they feel a need to confide, mind you. I don’t think we have a “formal” atmosphere whatsoever. I think we have an atomosphere where we don’t presume that any of our students want anything from us as teachers that could be ever remotely interpreted as sexual.

Likewise, in spite of the obvious boundaries on how a priest may act towards parishioners I do not know any pastors that do not radiate warmth and approachability. Was it easier when they didn’t have to think about how someone might take something the wrong way or how a sexual predator might imitate their physical gestures of affection in order to groom a victim? Why, yes it was. Most of the time, it was fine. The problem is that when it is not fine it is REALLY not fine.

 

[Cruciferi]

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[Xantippe]

Do you really want to go there?

The modification to this is to not associate with feminists or even women on college campuses.

I see cats, lots of pretty kitties, in the future for people like that,

Are you familiar with StarShipTrooper’s posting history?

The lifestyle that StarShipTrooper has described himself as living doesn’t make any sense at all if there’s an epidemic of false rape accusations–he is putting himself in an extremely vulnerable position.

 

[PetraG]

If you get PTSD from someone missing a social cue, seek professional help ASAP.

Really, Xantippe, cut the nonsense. SST has some good points.

If you think a guy who looks for excuses to grope or leer at women at work does it because he “missed social cues,” you need some counselling, too, LOL.

 

[Xantippe]

Are you implying that Catholicism or Christianity are not terribly concerned about sincerity or personal integrity, but merely outward appearances? Provided that you act as if you are a gentleman or respectful, it doesn’t matter what the inside of the cup is like?

Are you claiming that people can be respectful on the inside while outwardly disrespectful or that a person can be gentlemanly on the inside while a boor on the outside?

That doesn’t really work, at least for qualities like respectfulness and gentlemanliness, which depend on outward manifestation.