Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

[Xantippe]

If you get PTSD from someone missing a social cue, seek professional help ASAP.

Really, Xantippe, cut the nonsense. SST has some good points.

I was responding to a post from SST where he said, " If you misread a social cue, you are now rapist. That sounds like so much fun," so we’re talking about rape. And yes, as we were discussing previously, it is very easy to get PTSD from sexual assault.

Anybody who is frequently one missed social cue from raping somebody really needs to review their life choices.

 

[PetraG]

Anybody who is frequently one missed social cue from raping somebody really needs to review their life choices.

Anyone who is EVER one missed social cue from raping someone really needs to do some self-examination.

(I’m on the Catholic web site, right? I’m having a hard time remembering…)

 

[HarryStotle]

One point here is a civil individual will, if told that other people do not in fact appreciate a certain behavior, he will change it.

That might be true of some behaviours, but not true, necessarily, of all. In particular, when social mores are being used by the PC crowd to control, not merely behaviour, but the entire social and political climate. This kind of reprehensible social control by the imposition of an ideological agenda ought to receive a great deal of push back.

Prime example is the attempt to push gender pronouns such that “respect,” by definition can only depend upon an exuberant willingness to use a made-up pronoun.

That is social re-education under the guise of civility. The PC crowd determines what constitutes “civil” and then isolates instances of “uncivil” solely in order to coerce submission to its new contrived set of “values.”

Yeah, no thanks.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Given their propensity to avoid having children or murdering them, one can reasonably hope that their lunacy dies out within a few generations.

 

[Xantippe]

Anyone who is EVER one missed social cue from raping someone really needs to do some self-examination.

(I’m on the Catholic web site, right? I’m having a hard time remembering…)

I know!

It’s like fornication is assumed to be the default.

The surprise kiss thing is also weird, having been on at least one CAF thread where kissing was treated as highly morally suspect.

 

[Xantippe]

Given their propensity to avoid having children or murdering them, one can reasonably hope that their lunacy dies out within a few generations.

College-educated women are having more children than they used to.

The U.S. Fertility Rate Is Down, Yet More Women Are Mothers - The New York Times

“Yet today, 86 percent of women ages 40 to 44 — near the end of their reproductive years — are mothers, up from 80 percent in 2006, reversing decades of declines, according to a new analysis of census data by Pew Research Center on Thursday.”

“The biggest increases in motherhood since the 1990s were in groups of women with higher education. While women without college degrees have always been highly likely to have a child, women with college or advanced degrees had been less so, until recent years.”

“Now, 80 percent of women with professional degrees or doctorates have a child by the time they are 44, compared with 65 percent two decades ago, perhaps indicating that fewer women see long educations or demanding careers as a bar to having a family.”

 

[HarryStotle]

Are you claiming that people can be respectful on the inside while outwardly disrespectful or that a person can be gentlemanly on the inside while a boor on the outside?

That doesn’t really work, at least for qualities like respectfulness and gentlemanliness, which depend on outward manifestation.

So what you are saying…

What is it with all the Cathy Newman inspired ideation?

What do you suppose Paul was talking about?

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. (1 Cor 13:1-3)

I suppose merely superficially displaying respectfulness and gentlemanliness are nothing like having prophetic powers, comprehending all mysteries and having all knowledge, but it seems to me that the same principle applies: when things are done merely for show, without an integral and sincere commitment to those around us they are merely noisy gonging nothing burgers.

 

[PetraG]

That might be true of some behaviours, but not true, necessarily, of all. In particular, when social mores are being used by the PC crowd to control, not merely behaviour, but the entire social and political climate. This kind of reprehensible social control by the imposition of an ideological agenda ought to receive a great deal of push back.

Prime example is the attempt to push gender pronouns such that “respect,” by definition can only depend upon an exuberant willingness to use a made-up pronoun.

That is social re-education under the guise of civility. The PC crowd determines what constitutes “civil” and then isolates instances of “uncivil” solely in order to coerce submission to its new contrived set of “values.”

Yeah, no thanks.

I am not buying that there are men out there who do not know how to recognize work well done by someone who they know is not touchy-feely. This is just not that hard. This takes “social re-education”? I don’t think so. I think this takes buying into the same old rules that everyone ought to have been following all along.

I’m only asking men behave towards me the way our pastor does, which the vast majority already do!! If you are a Catholic, which I assume you are, I fail to see how that is such a burdensome requirement, let alone something pulled from a “contrived” set of “values.”

Really–would any of you be able to present any of these arguments to St. Paul? He’d blister you for it, and you know it.

"Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. So do not be associated with them." Eph 5: 3-7

How is that for “contrived” values for you? No sexually suggestive talk at all, ever, to anybody. Are you going to make St. Paul out to be “controlling” or “PC”? No, he just knows what boundaries a Christian ought to have and he doesn’t mince words about saying the same rules apply to everyone in the Church.

I can see how this is a difficult sale to make with those who are worldly. I am puzzled that it is anything like a hard sell to seriously Christian men or women. Oh, well, I suppose I am also surprised when Christian women bristle at the suggestion that they ought to dress in a way that reflects pursuit of holiness instead of pursuit of complements about how “sexy” they are. This, even in the Church–and those who suggest that a Christian ought to have boundaries of purity in conduct are derided as “boring” and “Victorians”!

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Or compliment her new dress or hair style without being accused of sexual harassment.

That usually doesn’t happen unless it’s listed together with other things. I’ll give you an example: I was at a charity event for North Korean refugees, and an old South Korean man at my table told me I was pretty. I thanked him. Later, he asked me if I was Russian, which is the South Korean way of asking white women “how much?”

Isolated by itself, complimenting me on my looks wasn’t a bad thing at all. The problem was that he’d done so in conjunction with trying to solicit me for prostitution at a charity event.

 

[PetraG]

I know!

It’s like fornication is assumed to be the default.

The surprise kiss thing is also weird, having been on at least one CAF thread where kissing was treated as highly morally suspect.

There is this consternation that you might take the trouble before kissing a woman to have a really good idea that yes, she wants to be kissed. Where does this come from? I’ve been given a surprise kiss by someone who had gotten no indication from me that I wanted one. It was disgusting. Really? He didn’t know that was totally inappropriate? Like %$#* he didn’t. What a load of nonsense! (Yes, it turned out that this was not an isolated incident nor by any means the worst transgression. He’d been told many times to cut it out. This was no case of “confusion” or a “mistake,” even though that was the way he tried to sell it.)

 

[Xantippe]

I suppose merely superficially displaying respectfulness and gentlemanliness are nothing like having prophetic powers, comprehending all mysteries and having all knowledge, but it seems to me that the same principle applies: when things are done merely for show, without an integral and sincere commitment to those around us they are merely noisy gonging nothing burgers.

I’d point to James 2:

"14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. 18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith."

 

[PetraG]

I suppose merely superficially displaying respectfulness and gentlemanliness are nothing like having prophetic powers, comprehending all mysteries and having all knowledge, but it seems to me that the same principle applies: when things are done merely for show, without an integral and sincere commitment to those around us they are merely noisy gonging nothing burgers.

You don’t have to be superficial. You can be actually respectful by abiding by the boundaries the people around you set because you really do respect them and their wishes, rather than just doing it because you’re afraid you can’t get away with doing the stuff you want to do, instead.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I suppose merely superficially displaying respectfulness and gentlemanliness are nothing like having prophetic powers, comprehending all mysteries and having all knowledge, but it seems to me that the same principle applies: when things are done merely for show, without an integral and sincere commitment to those around us they are merely noisy gonging nothing burgers.

If men feel as though they have to fake respect, then maybe they should leave women alone until they develop the real thing. Like a wise poster said before, it’s impossible to be a gentleman on the inside but outwardly act like a boor.

 

[starshiptrooper]

What lifestyle? I work, I go to the gym, I play chess, win at bar trivia and make edgy posts online. I am not sure how that makes a false rape accusation more likely.

 

[starshiptrooper]

The replacement rate is still below 2.1. There is a reason feminism and support for open borders goes hand in hand.

Since those demographics were less likely to have children in the first place, a small numerical increase will translate into a big percentage increase.

 

[DarkLight]

That might be true of some behaviours, but not true, necessarily, of all. In particular, when social mores are being used by the PC crowd to control, not merely behaviour, but the entire social and political climate. This kind of reprehensible social control by the imposition of an ideological agenda ought to receive a great deal of push back.

In this case, we’re talking about making advances or other remarks towards women. If a large number of women are saying that, actually, certain sorts of approaches cause them to feel harassed rather than being welcome, a gentleman is going to modify his approach, not stubbornly insist on his right to talk to any woman he wants in whatever situation he wants however he wants, because some woman might respond positively. (That’s one of the big items that bothers me - I’ve heard many men talk like the fact that they might at some point find some woman who likes their approach, justifies however many women feel harassed or unsafe.)

There’s still plenty of ways to meet women that aren’t harassment - anyone who thinks he “can’t approach women anymore because he might get accused”, well, I’d have some serious questions about whether he should be interacting with women in the first place if he can’t think of any.

 

[PetraG]

The replacement rate is still below 2.1. There is a reason feminism and support for open borders goes hand in hand.

Since those demographics were less likely to have children in the first place, a small numerical increase will translate into a big percentage increase.

Agreed, he should have obtained a signed consent form witnessed by a notary public along with a blood test for alcohol and drugs for all parties involved first.

A signed consent form? You think that is what is required? Reallyl? If you’re saying that yes, you have a pattern of women finding your physical advances unwelcome, clue in.

Really, if you have never kissed someone who told you that you were out of line, what are you in such a big flap about? Why can’t you agree that most men do not find this such a difficult puzzle to work out? If you have, what on earth makes you think that you get to argue about the conditions required prior to a kiss?

Conservative women agree with liberal women on this point, sir. We don’t like someone taking liberties with us, and we don’t believe that they “don’t know” when they’re doing it. We are not about to buy the bill of goods that says it is our fault when someone does or that we’re going to do harm to the world by expecting the rules of decent behavior to be followed.

Whether conservative or liberal, we expect to be treated with dignity and when we aren’t and call someone on it, we expect to be believed. If that is too much for you, then Sir, go fly a kite! If you keep finding that women “get the wrong idea” about your intentions, look at yourself, not them. If you don’t, then quit rushing in to the defense of the usually-disengenous men who talk like that. They are NOT that clueless. They just want the advantages they think they can get by pretending that they are.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Typical hysterical feminist response. Anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you is inept, routinely commits sexual assault or is covering for rapists.

Due process is obviously not a concern. Modern women having a myriad of contradictory expectations has nothing to do with it.

Ad hominem.

 

[Xantippe]

What lifestyle? I work, I go to the gym, I play chess, win at bar trivia and make edgy posts online. I am not sure how that makes a false rape accusation more likely.

That’s great.

You used to talk about a much less CAF-appropriate lifestyle.

The replacement rate is still below 2.1. There is a reason feminism and support for open borders goes hand in hand.

Since those demographics were less likely to have children in the first place, a small numerical increase will translate into a big percentage increase.

Record Share of New Mothers are College Educated

Overview Mothers with infant children in the U.S. today are more educated than they ever have been. In 2011, more than six-in-ten (66%) had at least some

www.pewresearch.org

"Mothers with infant children in the U.S. today are more educated than they ever have been. In 2011, more than six-in-ten (66%) had at least some college education, while 34% had a high school diploma or less and just 14% lacked a high school diploma, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data.

These benchmarks reflect a decades-long rise in the educational levels of all women, as well as a decline in births that has been particularly steep among less educated women, and that has intensified since the onset of the Great Recession in late 2007."

More women have some college, more college women are having babies, and non-college women are having fewer babies.

“There are significant differences in the marital status of new mothers depending upon their educational attainment. While about six-in-ten (61% in 2011) women with less than a high school diploma are unmarried when they give birth, this share declines to only 9% among women with at least a bachelor’s degree.”

“Experts have identified a strong linkage between child well-being and maternal education levels. On average, a mother with more education is more likely to deliver a baby at term and more likely to have a baby with a healthy birth weight. As they grow up, children with more educated mothers tend to have better cognitive skills and higher academic achievement than others. It is difficult to determine whether maternal education is causing some of these outcomes, or if it is serving as a proxy for some other causal factor (for example, economic well-being). What is irrefutable, though, is that on average the more education a woman has, the better off her children will be”

tldr; It’s shooting yourself in the foot to believe that college-educated women are worse prospects as wives and mothers.

 

[HarryStotle]

I’d point to James 2:

"14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. 18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith."

So to be clear…

Faith without works is dead. Meaning BOTH are needed.

Faith, by itself… …insufficient.
Works, by themselves… …empty gestures.

Love, however, is a different story. It gives real life to hollow gongs, and clanging cymbals, and merely empty gestures.

When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.