Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

[Xantippe]

No, she was drinking with a female friend, a boyfriend of her friend (counts as a stranger) and am actual stranger.

She said she was out drinking with the female friend, then playing video games with the female friend, friend’s boyfriend (doesn’t count as a stranger if they know each other), friend’s roommate (probably not a stranger), and friend’s roommmate’s friend Jack at the friend’s house. He’s the only actual stranger in the story, and it doesn’t sound like she was drinking with him.

“Three nights ago, I got extremely intoxicated while out with a friend and texted my husband to tell him I was crashing at her house. We spend the night playing video games with her boyfriend, their roommate, and his friend “Jack.””

The trick is to not put a ring on trash.

You’re talking as though a wife and a girlfriend are the same thing. They’re not. You’re also taking divorce way too lightly for a Catholic man.

Actually at worst he could be murdered by an angry boyfriend/husband or put in prison and raped himself.

Anyway, shouldn’t the person with more to lose be more careful? Your assertion here supports my contention that women should be all the more risk-averse.

Then, as he has more to lose, he should be more careful.

I have to say, I’ve never been blackout drunk, or even drunk. (The worst thing I’ve ever done was accidentally mix cold medication and a shot of homemade raspberry vodka once.)

Edited to add: Homicide rates for men and women suggest that US women are nearly 4X as careful as US men, given that nearly 80% of homicide victims are male.

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

Drunk sex on campus: Universities are struggling to determine when intoxicated sex becomes sexual assault.

An interesting take on how drunk is too drunk. The man and woman in this case were both too drunk to recollect what happened the next day. You’ll notice that it was the woman who pursued sex but it was ultimately the man who was determined to be at fault because “it is the responsibility . . . of the male to gain consent before proceeding with sex.” It seems to me there is a tendency here to infantilize the choices that women make.

 

[Xantippe]

The man and woman in this case were both too drunk to recollect what happened the next day.

It sounds like everybody else remembered, though.

That’s the most documented sex I’ve ever heard of.

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

It sounds like everybody else remembered, though.

That’s the most documented sex I’ve ever heard of.

There was no shame in her game. Lucky for the man involved or else he may have been charged with more than sexual misconduct.

 

[PetraG]

An interesting take on how drunk is too drunk. The man and woman in this case were both too drunk to recollect what happened the next day. You’ll notice that it was the woman who pursued sex but it was ultimately the man who was determined to be at fault because “it is the responsibility . . . of the male to gain consent before proceeding with sex.” It seems to me there is a tendency here to infantilize the choices that women make.

Not to be too graphic, here, but very often the law reads so that whether male or female the rape victim is defined as the one subjected to penetration while the perpetrator is the one doing the penetrating.

 

[Theo520]

You mean you’re on your own except for the women who decide to hook up while they’re under the influence of drugs or alcohol. You don’t seem to be ok with letting them live with their choices.

The women involved in these situations didn’t have booze poured down their throats. They’ve gone out to a bar where people congregate to drink to excess, dance erotically, and go home with strangers. They are the ones putting on the hustle not falling victim to it. No need to pretend that they don’t know what they’re getting themselves into.

Building on this point with an analogy.

If you knowingly go camping alone and without protection in an area with regular Grisly attacks, you are taking a risk you could have avoided. This doesn’t mean the grisly won’t be killed for it’s part in attacking you, but you were also foolish in taking the risk and putting yourself in harms way.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Building on this point with an analogy.

If you knowingly go camping alone and without protection in an area with regular Grisly attacks, you are taking a risk you could have avoided. This doesn’t mean the grisly won’t be killed for it’s part in attacking you, but you were also foolish in taking the risk and putting yourself in harms way.

This still perpetuates the stereotype of “boys just gonna rape” that you guys hate so much, and then said boys get mad at women for exercising due caution.

 

[Theo520]

This perpetuates the stereotype of “boys just gonna rape,” and then said boys get mad at women for exercising due caution.

Nope, it recognizes that some people will do bad things but you can take steps to minimize risk.

In my analogy the grizzly was but down, not finger scolded.

However, if you want to simply pretend that grizzlies don’t exist in the wild, that’s your prerogative. I’d prefer to train my kids how to avoid bear attacks.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Nope, it recognizes that some people will do bad things but you can take steps to minimize risk.

In my analogy the grizzly was but down, not finger scolded.

However, if you want to simply pretend that grizzlies don’t exist in the wild, that’s your prerogative.

Grizzlies have a standard set of characteristics. It’s reasonable to train yourself to avoid bear attacks, because grizzlies are natural predators and we are their prey. They CAN’T change.

If a woman gets raped by a guy who was at the same bar, you can’t just toss out the “boys be raping, what can you do?” excuse and then get mad when people provide guidelines on how to not a be rapist. Men are not animals incapable of change like grizzlies - if they have a problem with navigating consent, then they need to listen to people like Xan and DarkLight, who can give them victims’ perspectives on what and what not to do.

 

[ChunkMonk]

It seems to me there is a tendency here to infantilize the choices that women make.

Ding ding ding. All the rights of men but none of the responaibility is the motto of the feminist. Which is why none of them are decrying this situation, but rather making jokes about it and quickly moving on.

 

[Xantippe]

However, if you want to simply pretend that grizzlies don’t exist in the wild, that’s your prerogative. I’d prefer to train my kids how to avoid bear attacks.

…and how not to maul campers.

I agree with TAG that the grizzly analogy makes men sound bad.

Grizzlies have a standard set of characteristics. It’s reasonable to train yourself to avoid bear attacks, because grizzlies are natural predators and we are their prey. They CAN’T change.

Also:

–They have a natural habitat that we happen to be invading
–You can immediately identify a grizzly bear from long distance without interaction
–There’s no good reason for non-professionals to voluntarily spend time with grizzlies

If a woman gets raped by a guy who was at the same bar, you can’t just toss out the “boys be raping, what can you do?” excuse and then get mad when people provide guidelines on how to not a be rapist. Men are not animals incapable of change like grizzlies - if they have a problem with navigating consent, then they need to listen to people like Xan and DarkLight, who can give them victims’ perspectives on what and what not to do.

Right.

And it does sound like at least two of our active posters don’t even want to understand consent.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

All the rights of men but none of the responaibility is the motto of the feminist.

Meanwhile, you want men to have complete control over women, and still shoulder women with the burden of managing male sexuality.

 

[Theo520]

You are the only one tossing out that excuse, none of the boys here are saying it…

My response is to kill the Grizzley so it doesn’t harm the next person. But that doesn’t help the person just traumatized, does it.

It’s an analogy not perfect. If you are heading out to a bar now, you know not all men behave according to our laws and standard customs, so take appropriate precautions. You can still go camping in the woods (to a singles bar), just take reasonable and proven precautions. Don’t go alone, don’t drink too much, and carry some bear mace. That’s just the way it is until we know all the grizzlies are dead. Don’t ignore present reality.

Training all men not be be grizzlies is the long term goal, but we clearly aren’t there yet.

 

[ChunkMonk]

Meanwhile, you want men to have complete control over women, and still shoulder women with the burden of managing male sexuality.

Nope. I’m saying women have to give up control if they want men to protect them. No authority? No protection.

The feminists joking about a guy being legally held responsible for a womans choices was pretty revealing.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Nope. I’m saying women have to give up control if they want men to protect them. No authority? No protection.

We’re not talking about protection. We want men to not rape us.

 

[ChunkMonk]

We’re not talking about protection.

Bulllllllllllllllsnot

We want men to not rape us.

And you will achieve this by mass importing of Muslims and Mexicans and going out into the deep woods with strange men.

Great strategy.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

And you will achieve this by mass importing of Muslims and Mexicans and going out into the deep woods with strange men.

Great strategy.

We’re trying to give you guidelines, but you keep brushing us off.

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

Grizzlies have a standard set of characteristics. It’s reasonable to train yourself to avoid bear attacks, because grizzlies are natural predators and we are their prey. They CAN’T change.

Replace grizzlies with sociopaths and I think you’ve described the situation pretty well. I think it is better to avoid rather than try to change sociopaths through browbeating.

 

[Xantippe]

All of those count as strangers.

If she had known any of them for 3+ years, would they stop being strangers at some point?

So they should all be careful? Why has it taken 1000 posts for you to agree with what I said 1000 posts ago?

Yes, I think everybody should be more careful. I’m the one who posted the Schroedinger’s Rapist post, which is so pro-caution that SST hated it.

But, as I’ve said before–it’s the who that makes a situation dangerous, not the where or the what (at least with regard to sexual assault).

All the rights of men but none of the responaibility is the motto of the feminist.

Meanwhile, the motto of the Red Pill is “None of the rights of men but all of the responsibility for women.”

Neither of those makes any sense.

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

We’re trying to give you guidelines, but you keep brushing us off.

How not to rape guidelines come across as really condescending to the 99% of men who don’t need it and laughably ineffective to the 1% who do. You’d have to kill the root of the vice long before it ever turns into rape for it to be effective. You don’t need a how not to murder guideline but rather a how not to get angry guideline.