Has the #Metoo movement made men more unsure how to relate with women?

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Rozellelily

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I personally don’t think the #metoo movement in itself has but my thread was inspired by answers on a thread regarding #metoo.

I have noticed that there a bit of a trend for some men to now not know what is and isn’t acceptable in interactions and perhaps even some men feel they are now receiving the “short end” on the stick in today’s social environment/society?

It would be good to clarify men’s uncertainties and also to make clear what is literal sexual harassment vs what is just banter/poor taste/sleazy etc.

For example the below video shows Katy Perry “insisting” that a American Idol contestant kiss her.
If the judge was a man instead,some people would still find this playful and innocent and others would find this totally sexual harassment.

So with such mixed messages,would men be served better with a clear and consistent definition of what exactly constitutes sexual harassment vs what doesn’t?

Some men even seem to be uncertain about manhood/masculinity as they are given all those messages about “alpha men”, “beta men” etc…

Btw I’m a woman and I don’t think what Kary Pery did was harrasment but it was too me all about her ego and attention seeking etc…

 
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It started with the sexual harrasment allegations in Hollywood (Harvey Weinstein etc) and women actresses in Hollywood started using the hashtag #metoo on social media to state that they had been sexually harassed too and to show solidarity etc and from then on other women in all different careers and countries picked up on the social media trend and started doing it too.
 
I’m sure the moment was scripted. If a man did it with a young woman, that would have been repulsive even if it were scripted.
 
I quit my fabulously well-paid office job because of political correctness. I couldn’t relax. In the end I could trust no-one. It was toxic.
And a lot of that has to do with relating to women. I like humour but often it is taken the wrong way. And especially if they want to take it the wrong way, to suit their own agenda.
So much happier leaving there.
 
Rozellelily said:
I have noticed that there a bit of a trend for some men to now not know what is and isn’t acceptable in interactions
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I think there’s been a lot of uncertainty, because there hasn’t been a unified social standard for a while.

But the standards may be gelling, which will make it easier to navigate social situations as the rules get more consistent.
 
Rozellelily said:
It started with the sexual harrasment allegations in Hollywood (Harvey Weinstein etc) and women actresses in Hollywood started using the hashtag #metoo on social media to state that they had been sexually harassed too and to show solidarity etc and from then on other women in all different careers and countries picked up on the social media trend and started doing it too.
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I think sexual harassment, sadly, has been a context in a vast number of relationships. What might’ve been a simple tap or pat, is now under hyper-critical evaluation. Even sensitivity of someone touching you wrongly. Or the shop talk jokes people tell. Which for me, are never funny. Guys try to be like boys. Many want to talk in ways that they think gets attention, and gets them in the cool crowd. As though it were some marksmanship to hookup with a woman. And yet, women have joined this too. For, many want to fit in a man’s world. Many who do it for career, or placement. And sadly, they’ve only encouraged it. Now, some have gone along with it, but now just want it to turn back on itself.

There are obvious indicators many fell silent because of the danger to their work or whatever situation they were in. So they simply went along to get along. Until finally they are able now to speak publicly against it.

Something is amidst in Hollywood though. Because, their very acting on screen and camera has promoted this behavior. I cannot but stop thinking about “Two and a Half Men.” Women who go along with this behavior of bad boys, are just engendering it. And now have the outrage against it. Once women start being heroic, and a bit of 'mia culpa" and humility. I then believe people can progress doing something about it. But until then, it’s just another media tabloid. Since this is just orchestrated by Hollywood which has promoted this for years, rather than ever condemning it. I also notice the lack of modesty in dress of many female person’s in many Hollywood Celebrity engagements/awards. Even my Grandma comments about parts of their body showing that ought to be covered in a modest/respectful way to them, and themselves. Until that changes, it’s just going to be the same thing. Maybe worse, the head of sexual harassment will just go into hiding. Covering Hollywood.

Just on a side note, on a comparative scale. Why are women so abhorred by sexual harassment, but yet not by the vice grips introduced into a woman’s womb (or a suction machine) taking out a human body (i.e. a human life in embryological and/or fetal development)? You got me too.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
The answer to how someone should act is pretty simple. Treat women the way you would want to see your wife, daughter, or mother treated.
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What if some women do not want to be treated the way you see your wife, daughter or mother because they have some other idea of how they want to be treated and take grave offence when you don’t treat them as they demand?

A bit of a quandary there, no?

I mean if a woman insists she is a “man” or some other made-up flavour of humanity (or something else entirely) and demands that you treat xhe, ze, ey, hir, hen, han, hon, ve, ne, per, thon, or Mx, appropriately, your advice may not be as reliable as you suppose.

I am with you, though.

The KISS principle overrides who it is directed at, even if xhe, ze, ey, hir, hen, han, hon, ve, ne, per, thon, or Mx object.
 
Xantippe said:
I think there’s been a lot of uncertainty, because there hasn’t been a unified social standard for a while.

But the standards may be gelling, which will make it easier to navigate social situations as the rules get more consistent.
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We all long for a fairy tale ending to this absurd drama.
 
Xantippe said:
I think there’s been a lot of uncertainty, because there hasn’t been a unified social standard for a while.
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I think this is a very important point. I come from a multicultural area. I have learned- sometimes the hard way - that what is acceptable for one doesn’t sit well with others.

I’m not talking about blatantly degrading or sexual behavior, btw. And I think this existed before the MeToo movement. Even a little thing like holding a door - for some women, a guy must hold the door for her, else he isn’t a gentleman. For others, it’s just a nice thing to do. And for still others, men who hold doors are being patronizing. No wonder men are confused. Add that to the fact that an accusation can ruin your reputation, even if it’s untrue and proven untrue. Then that confusion can be frightening.
 
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Except unfortunately some men will even treat mothers that way.
I was watching Married at First Sight (Australia) th other day and some of the guys were discussing which brides mothers were attractive😾
 
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HarryStotle said:
We all long for a fairy tale ending to this absurd drama.
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Well, there’s no good reason for men to do the Joe Biden/Al Franken thing during public events with women they barely know.

If that goes into the social code, it will be a very welcome development and it will comply with SuscipeMeDomine’s idea to “Treat women the way you would want to see your wife, daughter, or mother treated.”

No normal person wants to see their wife, daughter or mother being giving the full Joe Biden:

 
I didn’t say anything about mothers in general. I said that a man should consider how he would want his own mother ( or wife or daughter) to be treated. I’m guessing that most men would not want to see their mothers forced to trade sex for a job, for example.
 
BoyGenius said:
I cannot but stop think about Two and a Half Men.”
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Interesting observation about the Two and a Half Men show.
Not to mention all the regurgitated theme movies they keep pumping out like Dirty Grandpa etc…
 
Rozellelily said:
Except unfortunately some men will even treat mothers that way.

I was watching Married at First Sight (Australia) th other day and some of the guys were discussing which brides mothers were attractive😾
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Like another seriously error’d sitcom: How I Met Your Mother

Sadly.
 
BoyGenius said:
Why are women so abhorred by sexual harassment, but yet not by the vice grips introduced into a woman’s womb (or a suction machine) taking out a human body (i.e. a human life in embryological and/or fetal development)?
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Would you like to give some stats for each or are you just guessing?

Are you asserting that women don’t have any negative feelings about abortion? I was looking this up recently, and the number of abortions in the US peaked in 1980 and has fallen by about half since then.

Edited to add: Come to think of it, there are a lot of women on CAF who are presumably a) anti-abortion and b) anti-sexual harassment. It’s not exactly an unusual combination.
 
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