Has there been any other Jew besides Jesus who claimed to be divine?

[Valke2]

No. You don’t. You’ve made that quite evident. ANd I think you should review your own posts and look at what you have said in the past with a critical eye before condeming Jews.

 

[Lapell]

True. Why did he not correct Thomas or clarify the statement if he did not mean it to show him as God?

I agree with you here. Even there it seems that to some this is not enough. Like Fr Groeschel said, “To believers no proof is ever necessary, but to unbelievers no proof will ever be enough!” And here we are!

 

[elt1956]

Yes Shabtai Zvi

see:jewishmag.com/17MAG/ZVI/zvi.htm

I will go to the website as I can, but I do remember reading there were many besides Christ who were claimed, or claimed themselves to be “a” or “the” Messiah. I don’t really remember how specific they were. Many claimed John the Baptist to be so. Peace.

 

[elt1956]

Yes Shabtai Zvi

see:jewishmag.com/17MAG/ZVI/zvi.htm

I understand it. When is the last time I saw a Jew here talk about the beauty of God or why it is fulfilling to observe Torah? All I see is snarky snotty comments about Jesus, apparently since many of you have run out of Temples of your own to tear down.

Me and the Catholics differ on a lot of things, but we agree that Jesus is Messiah from the God of Israel, and we don’t like people saying he failed, especially when Jews can’t even keep a Temple standing due to their own failures.

Am going to be snarky here, but I think the Temple in Jerusalem fell because of the Romans. Jews have been brutalized and synagogues have been wrecked throughout history. I am “sure” the Nazis had “something” to do about Jewish repression and martyrdom in Germany. And no, I am not Jewish. Just like to see justice.

 

[LaMar]

I know that there were quite a few before and after Jesus who claimed to be the Messiah. But did any Jew, besides Jesus, ever claim to be divine, or a god, or the one God Himself? If so, when, who was he, and what happened to him?

Don’t know if it’s a perfect analogy, but there was a guy named Schneerson who had some zealous followers. These people claimed he would return from the dead and speculated he was the messiah.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad

In the early 1990s, his followers ran around Boro Park and Brighton Beach (in New York City) occasionally causing trouble, beating up the regular Jews who didn’t agree with them, having parades and things like this. I talked to a former member of this sect on an airline flight once, and it was funny to compare and contrast the true believer mentality to the one I was familiar with, as a rural Mormon.

edited to add: I think this was the 20th century messiah…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson
If it wasn’t him, it was his dad.

 

[elt1956]

So when Judaism failed among Jews and they lost their First Temple, did they relaunch the Second Temple because they invented some illness as an an over-arching/all-encompassing ‘need’ for metaphysical ‘salvation’?

They lost the Second Temple too because Judaism failed again among Jews. They keep losing their faith and now a lot of them are just a bunch of atheists. While Popes have been on the throne and Muslims have been on the Temple Mount for over a thousand years. You know why?

Christians and Muslims accept Jesus and teach him to all the world.

Quran 2:87 And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah’s sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?

[Moderator Note: Removed Uncharitable comments.]

Question. How is Jesus supported by Muslims through the Holy Spirit? I thought Islam taught Jesus was “just a prophet” like Muhammud? Thanks. Peace.

 

[honeysuckle]

I’ve noticed the most prolific posters on this thread have been non-Christian, which is most likely why the thread has missed the heart of the matter.

People claim to be divine all of the time. Jesus encouraged belief in Himself, but did not explicitly define his divinity during his ministry. There is no comparison between the spirit of the gospels and the words of someone like David Koresch.

He didn’t need to claim divinity. He performed miracles. He didn’t have theological arguments with the great scholars, He revealed hearts.

What He claimed during His lifetime is irrelevant, because He rose from the dead. That is the only thing that matters concerning the claim that Jesus is God.

Christianity rises and falls on the single fact of the resurrection. Christianity has no followers after the crucifixtion. The resurrection testifies to His divinity.

 

[elt1956]

That’s not a claim. And it certianly supports the belief that he didn’t make the claim known publicly.

And to how many did he make such declarations? There were about a million jews in Palestine at the time. THere were another 5 million in the diaspora So we can pretty much assume that 5 out of 6 jews definately never heard of him.

Of the 1 million that were in play, it must have been a very small number that even heard of Jesus, let alone heard him claim to be God. Most likely the number that heard of Jesus was less than those that heard of John the Baptist. John the Baptist had enough followers to alarm the authorities. Jesus did not.

As for the accounts of thousands of followers, somtimes 5,000, inthe Gospels, I think those numbers are highly exaggerated. If they were accurate, Josephus would have likely mentioned this when he described the four leading “sects” (Pharisees etc.).

In any event, since 5,000 is the biggest number reported, and given the above, his core following must have been much smaller. This is a much smaller number that the number of Jews who followed an Egyptian seer, who claimed to be the Messiah (about 30,000 according to Josephus).

Of the (for the sake of argument) thousands that heard Jesus speak, how many heard him say he was God (even if we are to view John’s quotes as proof)?

So when people say the Jews rejected Jesus, this is really inaccurate.

“So when people say the Jews rejected Jesus, this is really inaccurate”. I see your point, if one has never heard of another, then how can one believe.? But not to be argumentive, in this day and age, the opportunities to “know” about a person, govenment, religion, at least superficially is available to a lot more people. So the idea of “not knowing” is becoming “almost” irrelevant, is this not so? Thanks. Peace.

 

[Valke2]

“So when people say the Jews rejected Jesus, this is really inaccurate”. I see your point, if one has never heard of another, then how can one believe.? But not to be argumentive, in this day and age, the opportunities to “know” about a person, govenment, religion, at least superficially is available to a lot more people. So the idea of “not knowing” is becoming “almost” irrelevant, is this not so? Thanks. Peace.

Obviously, there would be a much larger number of Jews today who have heard about Jesus. My post was replying to someone who said that the Jews of Jesus’ time rejected him. As for the idea of not knowing becoming irrelevant, I guess it depends on how Christians define that term. Is knowing that there was a person named Jesus, who claimed to be God, and who many believe was God, but not believing these claims, enough to constitute rejecting Jesus, as that term with all its consequences is understood by the Church?

 

[elt1956]

Obviously, there would be a much larger number of Jews today who have heard about Jesus. My post was replying to someone who said that the Jews of Jesus’ time rejected him. As for the idea of not knowing becoming irrelevant, I guess it depends on how Christians define that term. Is knowing that there was a person named Jesus, who claimed to be God, and who many believe was God, but not believing these claims, enough to constitute rejecting Jesus, as that term with all its consequences is understood by the Church?

Valke, I have no idea. I am having an argument with the Pope about that right now. Peace