Hehe All is forgiven nowI guess since we couldn’t convince you to join our little act of treason 36 years earlier we wanted to give you another chance.
But here’s the thing…The one who had to be stopped was the one who started the war. Therefore, the war was not just…The defense against the aggressor is what was just.
I agree because there was a conscious decision by the administrations to keep the wars limited; and as a result, they became essentially defensive in nature. This is a sure recipe for defeat; and as such, the approach violates at least one of the requirements of a just war: there must be a reasonable chance of success. Once success ceases to be the goal, the wars became unjust, and all we ended up doing was to kill people and blow up a lot of dirt.
your getting tied up to much in definitions, the church very clearly preaches the doctrine of Just war. It lays down requirements which must be meet in order for their to be a just war, my thread which was a response to a tangent in another thread was to examine has there been a just war. More specifically has there been a just war that involved the United States.
Agree with much of this…The one I think that might qualify is the Korean conflict. A UN sanctioned intervention against a clear aggressor…Or are there things I’m missing here in the build up…I’ve not studied the history around that time.I agree some terms and concepts should be defined to further the discussion. BUT…
Since WW II, and not including WW II, I’d have a lot of trouble calling any of the US’s wars “just,” even if excluding the question of the actual conduct of the war. Some were unequivocally *not *just wars, I think. US involvement in Vietnam, certainly (though hindsight is unobstructed by the spirit of the age–i.e., fear of communisim); and the most recent Iraq war.
And what counts as a war (or as participation in the war)? Certainly, American involvement in the Iran-Iraq conflict was not just, nor American involvement in so much of the unpleasantness in Central and South America.
Assuming that war should be considered a “human act,” the morality a war is dependent on the object chosen, the end in view/intention, and the circumstances of the action. I can’t help but believe that every military action the US has been involved in since 1945 has been driven by bad intentions. Furthermore, the consequences of American military efforts have so often been so horrific, that it is difficult for me to see them as just wars.
The just-war question is a good one that seems too little discussed in the public square. What are the changes you think Ryan and Biden will bring it up in their debate?
Depending on what constitutes “success” of course.
Yes we have. But so has every other major nation.
In the case of the limited war, success was to get the enemy to see that his efforts are futile and to stop his aggression.
These questions are answered in this essay: intellectualconservative.com/2009/01/14/the-strategy-of-defeat-and-lessons-for-israel-in-gaza.
I think the US stands alone at the top of the list in the post-WW II era, during which I don’t think any major nation rose up (the USSR had 20-some fewer years to work, though).
In that case, I don’t think the “limitedness” of a war is problematic. Ending aggression strikes me as a moral objective. Whether the means are adequate is another question (which is probably what you were pointing out).
Link doesn’t seem to work.
I apologize if I have taken yet another tangent…To be perfectly honest, I have not studied the Churches teaching on “Just war” - not because I would disagree with a Church teaching, but simply because I find war to be repugnant…Even though I have studied the Second World War somewhat extensively.
It is probably a wash between us and the CCCP for that time period.
I think one of the issues for the US since the end of WWII has been the UN…The US was instrumental in the establishment of the UN and has sought to support the UN’s efforts at “negotiated settlements” rather than all out wars.
its not I just found it odd that you talked about just defense and said there was no just war, when the church clearly talks about it. It is very vague and open to interpretation so that is why it can be so debated. But please continue to discuss this stuff.
Perhaps. And so much was part of the “cold war” in one way or another: Vietnam, Korea, Iran-Iraq, C. and S. America, and so on and so on. Perhaps there’s no way to assess the justice of the “Cold War,” so we have to settle on assessing the elements thereof.