Has there ever been a just war?

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It’s a mistake to think that defense = just war and aggression = unjust war. This is not what the Church teaches. If the Church taught that, then the Just War Theory would be a lot simpler than it is. There are instances in which aggression would be justified.
the churches teaching on just war shouldn’t be something that is very simple I hate to say. anytime you deal with a life issue and trying to justify taking a life even if it isn’t innocent it is tough to justify it because we are all created in the image and likeness of God and even Hitler has the same dignity as the Pope does.

because of this fact trying to justify a war is very difficult and it should be.
 
I think I’d agree with this. At the same time, I’m not so certain that US support of the Mujahideen was “a just war” for the US, given that it was based on ulterior motives rather than those of the Mujahideen.
that might be true of any war of self-defense.
 
Agreed. Not that it would always be easy to discern what was legitimately self-defense, though.
If the competent authority believed it to be self defense, that would probably be sufficient. (As opposed to disinformation aimed at steering public opinion).

ICXC NIKA
 
I really have no idea, it’s a complicated issue for me and I know little about history. But I think killing is wrong, giving orders to kill is wrong, and think war is wrong. I would like to believe that we will have no more wars.

I wold also like for everyone to learn about what ‘war profiterring’ is and how it serves as a finacial motive to war where a select few get rich off of wars while the public is told the war is for some other reason like ‘freedom’, something that will make them feel scared and then protected so they go along with it.

I doubt any country is going to come and try to attack the usa anytime soon so think it’s perfectly reasonable to significantly scale back all military actions that are offensive (such as bases in other countries and traveling to other countires to wage war- do people realize that the usa put Sadam in power years and years back to fight…afganistan? or some country. Then 15 years later they attack him and his country. And many died and many in this country profited financially a great deal. That is a crying shame.

People make a fuss about some school kid shooting a few of his classmates while the us gov’t is out there slaughtering thousands and this is propped up as a good thing, ALWAYS.

I think we have had enough wars. Wars should stop, or the us should stop participating in them unless attacked directly on our own soil. We would save a lot of american lives and save a ton of money that could be used to do things like feed people in the world who are starving to death (or submit your cause here in place of that).

God Bless,
Bill
 
Suppose 2 people decide to go to war, they both feel it is just, and both are willing to live with whatever the outcome is. No one else is put at risk. Is such an action ever just?

The reason I ask is because people support various wars were tens or hundreds of thousands were killed, mamed, etc and this is certainly more severe than 1 or 2 people being killed or mamed. Is there a reaons that ever justifies this? I get the imprssion that a lot of poeple feel that there are justifications when someone in gov’t decides war is necessary and good but am not clear on whether or not they think that there is any possible scenario where 2 people going to war is justified?

What about a man whose daughter is raped by some guy and both the father and the guy decide they both want to have a gunfight with each other. Is this OK? What if the girl was 4 years old? What if she was developmentally disabled as well? What if she was brutally beaten before being raped?

Is there ever a circumstance where 2 individuals can justifiably go to war with each other?

What about if the leaders of 2 nations decide to settle a dispute by a gunfight rather than have their nations go to war with each other?

I get the feeling that people somehow tie in legitimacy to war because gov’t has a hand in making the decision in most cases, of course I could be wrong.

Curious what people think though…
 
The justice of a war is similar to the justice of self-defense: one has the right to defend against an aggressor.

Take WW2: on the Nazi side, this was not a just war: they were the aggressors. On the side of those whom the Nazis invaded, it was a just war, because they were being aggressed against.

For the US to come to the aid of those who were aggressed against was a good thing to do.

If you look at it from the point of view of individuals and self-defense, then it comes out more clearly: Bob is walking down the street when Joe comes up to him and starts pounding on him. Bob has the right to hit Joe back because Joe is hitting him.

Those around Bob may see that he is in need of help and step in, and that is a good thing to do.

However, once Joe stops fighting, everyone else needs to stop fighting also (albeit cautiously). They do *not *get to keep pounding on him just because he *was *pounding on Bob.
What about if there is a lot of money grubbing going on behind the scenes as part of/most of the motive and we just don’t hear about that because the gov’t isn’t stupid so won’t talk about such things. Does that change things at all?
 
One of the reasons that WMDs were not found was becouse they had been used on Hussin’s own people and on Iran during the Iraqi-Iranin War. Or maybe the ones who were gassed just thought they were gassed. 🤷

A main plank of the Demacratic party platform was to keep slavery. They were the ‘anti-war’ party.
Do some reasearch on the trail of money and who was doing business with Sadam and who supported the war and who did not. It’s interesting. My memory is poor so I forget the details but I read a paper on a topic like this that more or less shocked me.
 
Suppose 2 people decide to go to war, they both feel it is just, and both are willing to live with whatever the outcome is. No one else is put at risk. Is such an action ever just?
No, Church teaching prohibits duels. It is similar to arranging both a suicide and a murder in my opinion.
The reason I ask is because people support various wars were tens or hundreds of thousands were killed, mamed, etc and this is certainly more severe than 1 or 2 people being killed or mamed. Is there a reaons that ever justifies this? I get the imprssion that a lot of poeple feel that there are justifications when someone in gov’t decides war is necessary and good but am not clear on whether or not they think that there is any possible scenario where 2 people going to war is justified?
It is not the numbers that matter, it is the principle of the thing.
What about a man whose daughter is raped by some guy and both the father and the guy decide they both want to have a gunfight with each other. Is this OK? What if the girl was 4 years old? What if she was developmentally disabled as well? What if she was brutally beaten before being raped?
No, a duel is immoral.
Is there ever a circumstance where 2 individuals can justifiably go to war with each other?
Only one man would be justified, and only then if he was acting self-defense or defending other innocent people.
What about if the leaders of 2 nations decide to settle a dispute by a gunfight rather than have their nations go to war with each other?
That would be kinda epic, but a shootout between FDR and Hitler would end with Hitler winning.
I get the feeling that people somehow tie in legitimacy to war because gov’t has a hand in making the decision in most cases, of course I could be wrong.
Curious what people think though…
Agreed, this is because the government is given the duty to protect the rights of its citizens. Part of this duty is deciding when to go to war.
 
That’s not the point. The casus belli for the Iraq war, was they were harboring WMD and posed a serious threat to international affairs…
Bologna. That was the excuse used. I’m not sure of all the actual reasons, but I bet a lot has to do with people making money off the war.
 
.Agreed, this is because the government is given the duty to protect the rights of its citizens. Part of this duty is deciding when to go to war.
But we go to war for oil and control over other nations resources and are told that it is to protect our freedom. The gov’t’s standard line is to scare us and then tell us we need a war or a law to keep us safe. Of course we are never safe, but the gov’t has been using this approach forever, makng us poorer and poorer in the process.

Do you believe what the major news media tells you about the reasons politicians do things? Don’t you ever suspect your being conned?

IMO the gov’t is the greatest con ever invented. It’s the perfect con.
 
In that case, I don’t think the “limitedness” of a war is problematic. Ending aggression strikes me as a moral objective. Whether the means are adequate is another question (which is probably what you were pointing out).

I’d want to limit any war to what was necessary to accomplish the goal. Certainly, goals are all-too-often not spelled out well at all, though.

Link doesn’t seem to work.
Some of it got cut off after I submitted it. Don’t know why. Try this one: ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=155&t=815146
 
There were no WMDs of the kind the Bush administration expected. The war was started unjustly as the reasons for war turned out to be based on false information.

Of course Iraq had some chemical and biological weapons at some point. The US government gave them to Iraq. The reasoning behind the war was the Iraq was an imminent threat due to WMDs that it turns out they didn’t have.
So, now it’s our fault that the Iraqis used WMDs on their OWN people because we gave the weapons to the Iraqis. As to the information, nobody came out (like Russia and China), at that time, and said that everybody (like England, Czeck Rep., and US) was wrong because the information was false. 🤷
 
americanfreepress.net/html/151_congressmen_derive_financi.html

organicconsumers.org/articles/article_11363.cfm

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080501101432AAogbgF

tomflocco.com/fs/GovOfficialsProfited.htm

epsusa.org/publications/newsletter/2012/mar2012/bilmes.html

huffingtonpost.com/craig-newmark/whos-profiting-from-iraq-_b_73437.html

and here’s something interesting about Prescott Bush and his profiting from WWII and the Nazi’s:

hermes-press.com/profiteering.htm

Still think that politicians have no interest in making money off of wars? Money is a motivator for a lot of people to do a lot of things. And many people make a buck wherever they can. People murder their spouses for life insurance money, etc… you think politicians are above profitting financially from wars? This has been going on for ages, as one of the links points out (back to the american revolution).

Sickening that kids are sent off to die and kill in the name of freedome while some people in power have their eyes on the money to be made from wars (and probably could care less about whose children die in the wars as a result).

God Bless. Let us pray this happens no more.
Bill
 
So, now it’s our fault that the Iraqis used WMDs on their OWN people because we gave the weapons to the Iraqis. As to the information, nobody came out (like Russia and China), at that time, and said that everybody (like England, Czeck Rep., and US) was wrong because the information was false. 🤷
We PUT Sadam in power back in the day. To help him fight afganistan or some country. Then like 20 or 30 years later or whatever we come to take him out. He got in power because of the US Gov’t funded him and supplied him with weapons years and years ago. I’m not too good with history so I forget which country it was against but it’s common knowledge. It’s not a secret.

And those links took zero effort to pull up. Immagine what an investigative jorunalist could do if looking for dirt and specifics on war profiteering.

God Bless,
Bill
 
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