Has women in the work force helped or hurt the family?

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I wonder though, in a general sense, is that same choice given to men? Or are men, in general, expected to work even if they want to stay home and care for the kids?

Further, do women today miss staying at home with their children, or does the personal fullfillment in a career cover that?

Is there a difference for the children if dad stays home versus mom staying home?
Personally, no career could ever replace my desire to stay at home with my children. It’s innate. I know that it isn’t like that with every woman, but for me it is. That being said, a dad is just as capable of staying home with kids and this is becoming more commonplace.

I still think it’s harder for women to do it though, especially if she is breastfeeding and is spending time on and off being pregnant. Whether a man wants to stay home with the kids or not, the woman is the one carrying the baby and any complications surrounding the pregnancy. If my husband told me he wanted to quit his job and stay home while we were still having kids, and expected me to bring in all the money as well as walk around pregnant, go through labor, and breastfeed, he’d get a blank stare, or worse, from me.
 
When my parents were married, my mother did not work outside the home. But, my father had an affair, impregnated the woman he was seeing on the side, and my mother divorced him. He was ordered to pay $150 a month in child support (in 1945, when you could live on that much).

BUT, my father never paid that court ordered child support. So, we either starved, or my mother had to work.

There is no simple answer to your question. If a mother is working to help provide the necessities of life, then it is necessary. If she is working just to provide luxuries, or to “fulfill her ambitions”, then it is harmful to the children to not have her present.
Very sad story indeed. It seems most people are uncomfortable with my questions. Not really sure why. Either things have gotten better, they have gotten worse, or they have stayed the same. It has to be one of those three. 🙂

It is similar to when people ask other cultural significant questions…sometimes people just do not want to directly answer…as I said, I am not sure why. For example, will same sex marriage improve our culture, will it worsen it, or will things stay the same? Has abortion made things worse, has it improved our culture, or has it had no impact? Have higher rates of divorce improved, worsened, or had no impact? Do couples living together help or hurt the culture, or no impact?

These are important questions because in all these things we have entered times and practices that are unique.
 
Personally, no career could ever replace my desire to stay at home with my children. It’s innate. I know that it isn’t like that with every woman, but for me it is. That being said, a dad is just as capable of staying home with kids and this is becoming more commonplace.

I still think it’s harder for women to do it though, especially if she is breastfeeding and is spending time on and off being pregnant. Whether a man wants to stay home with the kids or not, the woman is the one carrying the baby and any complications surrounding the pregnancy. If my husband told me he wanted to quit his job and stay home while we were still having kids, and expected me to bring in all the money as well as walk around pregnant, go through labor, and breastfeed, he’d get a blank stare, or worse, from me.
That last sentence made me smile–really. 🙂 Awesome.

However–and be honest here–is it fair that women have choices, but men really do not? Is that fair, is that true EQUALITY?
 
I am profoundly grateful that I have been able to raise my own children from their birth up until they leave the home to go to college. I have ALL the precious memories of their first word, the first time they raised their heads, crawled, walked, their first tooth, first serious injury 😛 ALL of it. Nothing was left to a nanny, nothing happened at day care. In fact I mourned when they started going to preschool a couple of days a week. I think one parent should have those experiences, and I do believe that mothers need to be that parent when the kids are small. The nurturing is ours in the early years. The father can provide a different kind of parenting a little later on. God made women and men different and there is a purpose to the differences, so that we each have our proclivities and they belong in different spheres.

When women worked in previous eras, the children were usually there with them. Agricultural jobs included the children. Once industrialization took hold, then new types of jobs were invented - the factory jobs, office jobs, etc. that took fathers away from the family and eventually even mothers. Our societal norms are always changing, and are influenced by many factors (the least of which is God, it seems to me).

I think families are very much weaker today and definitely one factor is women choosing a career over marriage and a family. But there are many influences - materialism is another factor - people choosing wealth and possessions instead of marriage and procreation.

I find it interesting that many people absorb the media’s messages about what is good and right to do, and then end up back-justifying those messages to convince themselves that what they have heard promoted for years is “just the way it is, and the way it should be.”

Read “The Marketing of Evil” if you want more information.
 
I am profoundly grateful that I have been able to raise my own children from their birth up until they leave the home to go to college. I have ALL the precious memories of their first word, the first time they raised their heads, crawled, walked, their first tooth, first serious injury 😛 ALL of it. Nothing was left to a nanny, nothing happened at day care. In fact I mourned when they started going to preschool a couple of days a week. I think one parent should have those experiences, and I do believe that mothers need to be that parent when the kids are small. The nurturing is ours in the early years. The father can provide a different kind of parenting a little later on. God made women and men different and there is a purpose to the differences, so that we each have our proclivities and they belong in different spheres.

When women worked in previous eras, the children were usually there with them. Agricultural jobs included the children. Once industrialization took hold, then new types of jobs were invented - the factory jobs, office jobs, etc. that took fathers away from the family and eventually even mothers. Our societal norms are always changing, and are influenced by many factors (the least of which is God, it seems to me).

I think families are very much weaker today and definitely one factor is women choosing a career over marriage and a family. But there are many influences - materialism is another factor - people choosing wealth and possessions instead of marriage and procreation.

I find it interesting that many people absorb the media’s messages about what is good and right to do, and then end up back-justifying those messages to convince themselves that what they have heard promoted for years is “just the way it is, and the way it should be.”

Read “The Marketing of Evil” if you want more information.
Thank you. 👍
 
That last sentence made me smile–really. 🙂 Awesome.

However–and be honest here–is it fair that women have choices, but men really do not? Is that fair, is that true EQUALITY?
What choices do we have that men don’t? I see it as the other way around- women are often forced to make a choice. We can’t do it all. Any time at work means we are sacrificing our time with our children, and spending all our time at home means that we have to put our other gifts and interests on the back burner.

Do that many men really want to stay home with the kids? It’s the hardest job there is, and thankless too. My female friends who have kids leave their husbands home for one day, and when they come back he’s begging her to take over. I don’t understand why so many men think a stay at home mom’s work is so easy. It’s an incredible sacrifice. Women who stay home do it out of love for their children and families, not because it’s a walk in the park.
 
In the past the majority of women did not work fulltime, most looked to have families and stay home.
This just isn’t true.

The idea of women staying home and solely raising childre (i.e. the quintessential “stay at home mom”) is a recent phenomenon, post WWII.
 
I wonder though, in a general sense, is that same choice given to men? Or are men, in general, expected to work even if they want to stay home and care for the kids?
I only know one man who wanted to stay home and run the fort, and he’s doing so. His wife is a lawyer, and they can afford to live off her salary. I don’t know of any other man who wants to stay home and run the fort. I know many women who wouldn’t mind it — if they could afford to make that change. Men, in general, are epected to work even if they want to stay home and care for the kids, if their wife can’t make enough money to support them all. In the real world, there are many women who would choose to stay home and take care of the kids, but their husbands don’t make enough money to support the family, so the woman has to help. So it goes both ways.
Further, do women today miss staying at home with their children, or does the personal fullfillment in a career cover that?
It depends on the women. Some women do miss staying at home, and some women are happy to be working and are confident that their arrangement benefits the whole family. Some women are grateful for their career, but still miss their children and make up the time when they don’t work.
Is there a difference for the children if dad stays home versus mom staying home?
If the dad stays home, and does what mom does, I can’t see how it would make a significant enough difference for the children. Of course there’s a difference: mom is mom and dad is dad. But if one of them is staying at home and running the fort, the fort should be running regardless of who is running it.
 
As many have noted, it has been for some a ‘positive personal experience’ and for others, not so much.

As others have also noted, women have been ‘in the work force’ part time and full time for much longer than just the 20th century, particular women of minorities and of a lower socio-economic background.

I’ll also note that even through the mid 1950s, working ‘at home’ was the equivalent, for all but the wealthy, of working a ‘full-time job’. Before the big labor saving devices came in (mostly in the 20th century) and especially among the rural and/or poor even then, jobs like cooking, cleaning, subsistance farming, food preservation, etc. took a long time. Today we walk out into the kitchen and turn on the dishwasher or oven or even microwave and pick our huge variety of foods out of the refrigerator. . .back then before you even went into the kitchen you went out to the woodpile or over to the coal cellar, and got the fuel ready to HEAT the old coal-burning or wood burning stove, which you then had to gauge by ‘feel’ would be the right temperature to do whatever (bake, roast). And while you might have an ice box and some canned (home canned) food, you’d also have much LESS to make do with. And you’d have a larger family to care for. Also more diseases for which (early on) there were no such things as antibiotics.

Detergents? Hah. Home made lye soap (ever try making it? Not fun), scraped. No washer or dryer; you’d haul by hand water from the pump, boil it, and you would HAND agitate those clothes. Then, those heavy hot wet things would need to be WRUNG and RINSED and finally hung out, and when dry they would need to be IRONED.

I’ve barely scraped the topic but people need to realize how much WORK women who 'stayed at home" did, historically speaking. And it was just as noble an occupation as any PAID one.
 
What choices do we have that men don’t? I see it as the other way around- women are often forced to make a choice. We can’t do it all. Any time at work means we are sacrificing our time with our children, and spending all our time at home means that we have to put our other gifts and interests on the back burner.

Do that many men really want to stay home with the kids? It’s the hardest job there is, and thankless too. My female friends who have kids leave their husbands home for one day, and when they come back he’s begging her to take over. I don’t understand why so many men think a stay at home mom’s work is so easy. It’s an incredible sacrifice. Women who stay home do it out of love for their children and families, not because it’s a walk in the park.
I think in the vast majority of families the husband/father does NOT have the choice to stay home and care for the kids/family. Men, in general, are expected to work for money.

Women have more choices regarding caring for the family from what I can see (yes, there are exceptions, so please no posting the exceptions–these are generalizations, not absolutes).

(btw, I agree that caring for kids is real work) 🙂
 
As many have noted, it has been for some a ‘positive personal experience’ and for others, not so much.

As others have also noted, women have been ‘in the work force’ part time and full time for much longer than just the 20th century, particular women of minorities and of a lower socio-economic background.

I’ll also note that even through the mid 1950s, working ‘at home’ was the equivalent, for all but the wealthy, of working a ‘full-time job’. Before the big labor saving devices came in (mostly in the 20th century) and especially among the rural and/or poor even then, jobs like cooking, cleaning, subsistance farming, food preservation, etc. took a long time. Today we walk out into the kitchen and turn on the dishwasher or oven or even microwave and pick our huge variety of foods out of the refrigerator. . .back then before you even went into the kitchen you went out to the woodpile or over to the coal cellar, and got the fuel ready to HEAT the old coal-burning or wood burning stove, which you then had to gauge by ‘feel’ would be the right temperature to do whatever (bake, roast). And while you might have an ice box and some canned (home canned) food, you’d also have much LESS to make do with. And you’d have a larger family to care for. Also more diseases for which (early on) there were no such things as antibiotics.

Detergents? Hah. Home made lye soap (ever try making it? Not fun), scraped. No washer or dryer; you’d haul by hand water from the pump, boil it, and you would HAND agitate those clothes. Then, those heavy hot wet things would need to be WRUNG and RINSED and finally hung out, and when dry they would need to be IRONED.

I’ve barely scraped the topic but people need to realize how much WORK women who 'stayed at home" did, historically speaking. And it was just as noble an occupation as any PAID one.
IMO, staying home and caring for children and the family is the most noble of all possible careers/vocations. IMO, it is truly a vocation, and not just a task or job. I just think that the majority do not view it that way any longer; most see it as a burden that means somehow they are missing out on something.

IMO, kids do better when a parent is at home, and I think they best when the mom stays home and the family is stable and loving…that is–imo–the best scenario and yes I know there are many exceptions.

But, I am a man, so what do I know, right? 🙂
 
I only know one man who wanted to stay home and run the fort, and he’s doing so. His wife is a lawyer, and they can afford to live off her salary. I don’t know of any other man who wants to stay home and run the fort. I know many women who wouldn’t mind it — if they could afford to make that change. Men, in general, are epected to work even if they want to stay home and care for the kids, if their wife can’t make enough money to support them all. In the real world, there are many women who would choose to stay home and take care of the kids, but their husbands don’t make enough money to support the family, so the woman has to help. So it goes both ways.

It depends on the women. Some women do miss staying at home, and some women are happy to be working and are confident that their arrangement benefits the whole family. Some women are grateful for their career, but still miss their children and make up the time when they don’t work.

If the dad stays home, and does what mom does, I can’t see how it would make a significant enough difference for the children. Of course there’s a difference: mom is mom and dad is dad. But if one of them is staying at home and running the fort, the fort should be running regardless of who is running it.
So, have things gotten better or worse–in general?
 
I think in the vast majority of families the husband/father does NOT have the choice to stay home and care for the kids/family. Men, in general, are expected to work for money.

Women have more choices regarding caring for the family from what I can see (yes, there are exceptions, so please no posting the exceptions–these are generalizations, not absolutes).

(btw, I agree that caring for kids is real work) 🙂
Well, I only know one man who stays home with the kids, and it’s because his wife makes a significantly larger salary than he would and is happier as a career woman. I think this is the exception though. Most men I know want to have a job outside of the home. I’d say that if a man wants to stay home with his children, he should make it clear up front and should seek a woman who would be okay with that and who would prefer to focus on her career. Given the choice though, the men I know would still choose to work outside of the home.
 
IrishPatrick…I believe that you have already made your opinion known using a passive/aggressive stance and you are now hoping to slowly prove your point to all of us by getting us to give our opinions individually and once you have them all, you will make your original intentions known more clearly. I believe that you are currently against women working outside the home and you believe that this has been a huge downfall in our society.

I cannot say for certain if a woman working (i.e. having a career) is a bad thing or a good thing. It depends on the individual family and the childcare arrangements that have been made.

While I agree with TheRealJulianne’s point that she never missed any “firsts” with her children; I also don’t necessarily agree that being a working mother is a neglectful stance with regards to her children.

A working mother can ensure that she only works 8 hours a day and begins her working day very early so that she can be home by 4:30 p.m. A working mother can also work 12 hour days and be neglectful towards her children. A working mother can have her loving mother or a very loving nanny take care of her children while she is a at work - children can and will flourish in this environment. A mother can also leave her children with a not so great daycare institutue or with a no so loving babysitter.

A working mother can be a very loving mother and fully engage her children when she is with them. A SAHM can be neglectful and unloving towards her children. A working mother can be selfish and unloving towards her children…always leaving them with a nanny. A SAHM can be a loving, nuturing provider to her children.

A working mother could have a very supportive husband who loves his children and shows it through loving actions. A working mother could have a cold husband who works 12 hours a day and is always too busy for his family. A SAHM could have a supportive husband or an unsupportive husband also.

There are too many variables to make a sweeping statement that a working mother is good or bad or that a SAHM is better than a working mother.
🤷
 
That last sentence made me smile–really. 🙂 Awesome.

However–and be honest here–is it fair that women have choices, but men really do not? Is that fair, is that true EQUALITY?
I think men have choices. They need to be unconventional to go against the tide, but for example my uncle stayed home for several years. A man who wants to stay home can marry a woman who wants a family but also has strong career ambitions. The couple would have to deal with social prejudice that says they are doing the ‘wrong’ thing but if they persisted and made friends and had a support network they could do it.
 
  1. Has women working fulltime outside the home been a good or bad development for the American family?
It has been a bad development. Of course, the fact that men work fulltime outside their homes has also been a bad development.
Has our culture improved since women entered the workforce in massive numbers
Our culture has practically disappeared. The question is analogous to “did the development of the shotgun improve the condition of passenger pigeons?”
Are our children better or worse off?
Worse. Unless, of course, one believes that children prefer being raised by strangers.
Has women working fulltime made this nation stronger, weaker, or no impact?
We get into some deeper waters, here. Who, or what, is the “nation”? If we mean the interests that own it and direct it, then it has gotten stronger. They have twice the number of workers, and in the absence of twice the amount of work to do, they have reaped the benefit of the depressing tendency that has on wages. With twice as many people making capital investments in a career, they have reaped the benefit on the interest charged for the investments.

However, if one defines the nation differently, for instance, as the government, then manifestly it is getting weaker. Ten years to not win a war in Afghanistan? Weak.

If the people are deemed to be the nation, then again, they are becoming weaker. As the mortgage crisis illustrates, they are being dispossessed. The number of people with a meaningful amount of land is less than ten percent, and declining. Whether this is attributable to women in the workforce is hard to say, but that the two things coincide is undeniable. Women may be working, but they are not owning in like percentages. If they are owning, they are not having much of a positive impact, therefore are indistinguishable from the owners who were not women.

We may have women senators, but the country is still broke.
Have our children become stronger or weaker in the faith?
It would be difficult to argue they have become stronger, because many now have no one to teach them.
Has entering careers and fulltime work been good or bad for women (and women who are moms)?
Good, in that women who have no husbands, or whose husbands have left have some means to support themselves. However, this has been overrated. Most of the women who lack husbands and have children are poor.

In general, however, women in the paid workforce is bad for them. It has put them in the same position as men in the paid workforce, which is generally a position of subservience. It teaches them, as it teaches men, to look to the master for support, to owe to the master the loyalty that belongs to Christ, and should be expressed through family devotion.

It makes them slaves.
Would women prefer to work and let their husbands stay at home and care for their children? Or, would women rather both spouses work?
One presumes that like men, women want a convergence of all good things! The problem is that it is the false promise of being able to acheive a utopia has induced women into giving up what they had, as it did men. That is the essence of sales: you persuade someone with something of value to part with it for something of lesser value.

Humanity has trod this path already, and the future of women will be no different than the past of men.

In the beginning, man and woman loved each other because they saw God intended them to do so. They lost this knowledge, and loved each other for their strength. When men first began to get weak, women loved them for their money. Without the money, women ceased to love them at all.

A woman can be loved for her beauty, or her loyalty, or her wealth. The problem with love, though, is its exclusivity. If the wealth is not exclusive, or if it is not constant, then…

People may want many things. But they won’t get them.
Would it better to have men stay at home with the kids, rather then neither parent staying home
A third of a loaf is still better than no loaf.

I say a third, because when men went out to work and women stayed home, humanity was still half right: the female half was still doing what it was supposed to do, although under the difficult condition of having to do it when the male half was effectively insane.

If we just switch positions, no body will be doing what they are meant to do, except at least the children will not be brought up by total strangers.
 
Well, I only know one man who stays home with the kids, and it’s because his wife makes a significantly larger salary than he would and is happier as a career woman. I think this is the exception though. Most men I know want to have a job outside of the home. I’d say that if a man wants to stay home with his children, he should make it clear up front and should seek a woman who would be okay with that and who would prefer to focus on her career. Given the choice though, the men I know would still choose to work outside of the home.
I agree and think you explain it quite well. However, the point I am making is not about whether men want to stay home; rather, I am pointing out that men (in general) are expected to work and are not expected to stay home. That choice is left to women (in general).
 
I admit I have not read all the entries (yet) but I couldn’t help expressing my opinions here.

Working women in itself is not a bad thing, and is not a good thing. Each case is different and like I read earlier, there could be awesome and nurturing working moms and stay-at-home-moms that are neglecting the kids.

One thing is clear to me though, society has failed to recognize that the work of a mother is really indeed work, and very hard work at that! Because of it, a lot of women feel the need to work outside the home in order to feel recognized. The masive entry of women in the workforce, and in particular Europe I think has contributed to the increase of unemployment. I don’t know, maybe I am just exagerating, but seems like it is. Another thing I’d like to bring up, and I hope it doesn’t sound very “conspiracy theorist” is that goverments in general (and again, especially in Europe) have an interest in making the family weaker, therefore they have been encouraging the women to work, and currently in most countries in Europe it’s nearly imposible to raise children without both parents having to work to support the family.

Just my thoughts 🙂
 
This just isn’t true.

The idea of women staying home and solely raising childre (i.e. the quintessential “stay at home mom”) is a recent phenomenon, post WWII.
That’s true and as other posters have pointed out it generally applied to middle and upper middle class white mothers. Black women have generally not had the same opportunities due to racism which lowered wages, opportunity and job security so both parents had to work.
 
It has been a bad development. Of course, the fact that men work fulltime outside their homes has also been a bad development.

Our culture has practically disappeared. The question is analogous to “did the development of the shotgun improve the condition of passenger pigeons?”

Worse. Unless, of course, one believes that children prefer being raised by strangers.

We get into some deeper waters, here. Who, or what, is the “nation”? If we mean the interests that own it and direct it, then it has gotten stronger. They have twice the number of workers, and in the absence of twice the amount of work to do, they have reaped the benefit of the depressing tendency that has on wages. With twice as many people making capital investments in a career, they have reaped the benefit on the interest charged for the investments.

However, if one defines the nation differently, for instance, as the government, then manifestly it is getting weaker. Ten years to not win a war in Afghanistan? Weak.

If the people are deemed to be the nation, then again, they are becoming weaker. As the mortgage crisis illustrates, they are being dispossessed. The number of people with a meaningful amount of land is less than ten percent, and declining. Whether this is attributable to women in the workforce is hard to say, but that the two things coincide is undeniable. Women may be working, but they are not owning in like percentages. If they are owning, they are not having much of a positive impact, therefore are indistinguishable from the owners who were not women.

We may have women senators, but the country is still broke.

It would be difficult to argue they have become stronger, because many now have no one to teach them.

Good, in that women who have no husbands, or whose husbands have left have some means to support themselves. However, this has been overrated. Most of the women who lack husbands and have children are poor.

In general, however, women in the paid workforce is bad for them. It has put them in the same position as men in the paid workforce, which is generally a position of subservience. It teaches them, as it teaches men, to look to the master for support, to owe to the master the loyalty that belongs to Christ, and should be expressed through family devotion.

It makes them slaves.

One presumes that like men, women want a convergence of all good things! The problem is that it is the false promise of being able to acheive a utopia has induced women into giving up what they had, as it did men. That is the essence of sales: you persuade someone with something of value to part with it for something of lesser value.

Humanity has trod this path already, and the future of women will be no different than the past of men.

In the beginning, man and woman loved each other because they saw God intended them to do so. They lost this knowledge, and loved each other for their strength. When men first began to get weak, women loved them for their money. Without the money, women ceased to love them at all.

A woman can be loved for her beauty, or her loyalty, or her wealth. The problem with love, though, is its exclusivity. If the wealth is not exclusive, or if it is not constant, then…

People may want many things. But they won’t get them.

A third of a loaf is still better than no loaf.

I say a third, because when men went out to work and women stayed home, humanity was still half right: the female half was still doing what it was supposed to do, although under the difficult condition of having to do it when the male half was effectively insane.

If we just switch positions, no body will be doing what they are meant to do, except at least the children will not be brought up by total strangers.
Thank you for that in-depth post. 👍
 
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