Has women in the work force helped or hurt the family?

[Serap]

A future mother going to college is a wonderful thing. It sets a great example to her future children (daughters in particular). It teaches that education is very important, not just for money, but for a more well-rounded individual.

I for one want my daughter to go to college and will push her in that direction.

College taught me maturity, time management, resourcefulness, perserverance, etc.

It’s a great way to prepare for the working world…gets your feet wet.

Mothers with degrees have choices…to be a SAHM or a WM (job outside home). All mothers are working mothers

I want my DD to have choices…control over her own life.

 

[EEgirl]

That is why I qualified the statement. Most people in colleges are not engineers, however. Even within engineering, most of what needs to be learned could be taught at an earlier age or on the job.

An engineer does not need to know what some communist wanna-be thinks of Shakespeare’s treatment of women in the history plays, for instance.

As an engineer, I can tell you my college education certainly did not include Shakespeare. There was very little time for any coursework outside of math, science and engineering.

 

[LemonAndLime]

You asked whether the writer thought women should not attend college.

I said yes, but only in the context that many less people - ie, men and women, should go to college.

Because college serves the purpose of acclimatizing people to evil.

That’s true. While I’ve been at college I went to Mass for the first time and have done since on every Sunday I can since, and I’m at RCIA and due to be baptised at Easter.

Yes, college has indeed called me to evil.

Note: I’m actually at university, but I understand that in the USA you call that college. In the UK, college is where you go before you go to university, after you’ve finished high school.

 

[Em_in_FL]

As an engineer, I can tell you my college education certainly did not include Shakespeare. There was very little time for any coursework outside of math, science and engineering.

I had the same experience… I didn’t take any college English/Lit (except for AP during high school)…

A future mother going to college is a wonderful thing. It sets a great example to her future children (daughters in particular). It teaches that education is very important, not just for money, but for a more well-rounded individual.

I for one want my daughter to go to college and will push her in that direction.

College taught me maturity, time management, resourcefulness, perserverance, etc.

It’s a great way to prepare for the working world…gets your feet wet.

Mothers with degrees have choices…to be a SAHM or a WM (job outside home). All mothers are working mothers

I want my DD to have choices…control over her own life.

Not to mention it could save the family…
My grandmother was widowed at an early age… with 7 kids. She got by working multiple jobs… but imagine this in today’s age!?! A woman would REQUIRE a good degree to make enough money to support 7 kids! I’m super glad I have both my degree and I’m maintaining work in my industry… at the very least it’s an insurance plan!

 

[Warrenton]

QUOTE=LemonAndLime;7688703]Note: I’m actually at university, but I understand that in the USA you call that college.

The distinction over here is whether the facility grants only a bachelor’s degree only, or also a master of arts or science, PhD (DPhil), or other higher degree, such as a J.D. (which really isn’t a doctorate).

Of course, some -indeed many- people have good experiences at college, and you claim yourself in that category.

But for every one of you, I can name someone on the other side who has gotten an abortion, become an alcoholic, cohabited, lost faith. The counter culture in the United States began in earnest at the universities, and spread to the colleges, from there to society as a whole.

I anticipated that engineers and doctors would rush to the support of the alma mater, and so it proved. In reply, one can point to many other professions where the requirement of a bachelors of arts or science degree is arbitrary. Why does one need to degree to be a military officer? So they can dispute philosophy with the Libyans?

Basically, the contention is that while college and university can be good, they are overused and wasted in modern society, or frequently used for the wrong ends.

To that extent, they support and track the current of society, which is bad for the family and for the Church, like the trends in female employment.

 

[whatevergirl]

Better to say, most men and women no longer work about the home, and most children no longer learn about the home, and the family has been ruined.

The ultimate question is how can we repair the family?

We cannot repair the family by having more people leave the home and the children for longer periods of time. That is simply making the present problem worse.

If half the people work about the home with the children, then it is a step toward reform. If all the people work about the home with the children, it is accomplishing reform.

^^^ I like this post.

 

[Warrenton]

^^^ I like this post.

Thanks!

 

[Bporte00]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION

      I do not think that women in the work force has been a negative thing per say, however I do think that we, as a country, have begun to under value family life in favor of working. If provisions were made for mothers AND fathers so that they could work and yet still care for their children on a one on one basis at least for the first few years things would be much better off (Swedish paternal leave anyone?)

I’m all for women working and even being the top bread winners, but when the children suffer or get pawned off in exchange for advancement it becomes a horrible misfortune.

Up until very recently I was determined to become a lawyer, but after some major praying and talking we realized it really came down to time with family or material goods. I’m switching to the nursing program and will aim to work weekends and/or nights so that our daughter can always have a parent home. Sadly, the economy doesn’t make it easy to have only one working parent. Oh, and I do think that dad stay home is just as good (or almost as good) as mom staying home.

 

[Phemie]

this discussion is flawed from the outset because makes two invalid assumptions. One is that all families consist of one husband and one wife, the second is that all fathers support their children.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks!

You’re welcome

puzzleannie;7675452:

It’s also an assumption that up until now most women stayed home. While most women didn’t have ‘careers’ they often had to do work outside the home to help put bread on the table. My grandmother did laundry for the well-to-do city folk who spent the summer in our village. While she was thus occupied my aunt helped raise the younger kids. My grandfather worked in the lumber camps and was not home for most of the year. Other mothers worked the fields or the barns to keep the farms going.

^^^ I like this post, too. Yeah, lots of assumptions about ‘yester-year’ are typically made when these ‘‘debates’’ pop up.

 

[whatevergirl]

Not sure why that quote got mixed up above…but credit for the quote goes to Phemie.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Not sure why that quote got mixed up above…but credit for the quote goes to Phemie.

You just cut off one of the HTML tags when you quoted.

 

[Phemie]

^^^ I like this post, too. Yeah, lots of assumptions about ‘yester-year’ are typically made when these ‘‘debates’’ pop up.

We have this vision of mothers alway being like June Cleaver until the 70s when all of a sudden women started having careers and left hearth and children to work away from home. What we saw on TV in post-WWII America and Canada is not what the typical mom was like in years before. Sure, if they were lucky enough for husbands to have jobs that paid enough to keep the family going, like my mom and my aunts, they were home with the kids, but if the husbands were not in good jobs the women had to go out and earn too and that usually didn’t mean a career, it meant backbreaking menial labour cleaning for their wealthier neighbors or in factories if that was available where they lived. And if the family happened to be a farming family she was usually working hard at that too.

 

[whatevergirl]

We have this vision of mothers alway being like June Cleaver until the 70s when all of a sudden women started having careers and left hearth and children to work away from home. What we saw on TV in post-WWII America and Canada is not what the typical mom was like in years before. Sure, if they were lucky enough for husbands to have jobs that paid enough to keep the family going, like my mom and my aunts, they were home with the kids, but if the husbands were not in good jobs the women had to go out and earn too and that usually didn’t mean a career, it meant backbreaking menial labour cleaning for their wealthier neighbors or in factories if that was available where they lived. And if the family happened to be a farming family she was usually working hard at that too.

note to self: read everything Phemie posts Seriously…you write well, and make great sense. My mom was fortunate to stay home…so was my sister. So was I, when my kids were younger. But, it’s a fantasy …the whole Leave it to Beaver scenario. I find it insulting and hurtful to families who are trying to make it…like EM_in_FL does with her family…to uphold this stupid ideal…and make it look like she and other women who work outside the home either a) can’t manage money well or b) must be living the high life and therefore are selfish to still work. I grow weary of reading that type of rhetoric. Your posts have been refreshing to read, and frankly…THE TRUTH of what yesteryear for many women was truly like. Not some pop culture ideal that has no basis in reality for many in america. Or elsewhere in the world. Sacrifice for many men and women comes in many forms. Some families cannot afford to have one parent working. period. It’s not about selfishness, or an unwilling nature to sacrifice. So for those who say this here…please stop! Your words are hurtful to those who are sacrificing, just not in the same ways you might be.

Thanks for being real, Phemie.

 

[MissRose73]

My mother did not work outside the home from the time she was pregnant with me (early 1970’s) until I was close to 16 and my sister was nearly 14. She then took a job in fast food as she really didn’t have any marketable skills at the time & no college degree, and the flexibility of the fast food job worked out well for her.

My sister is a single mother and works & attends school full time. She is lucky though that her kids have a decent father (her 1st ex husband), and my parents to help her out.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I will say one more thing: That images we idealize are not always the truth.

Normal Rockwell, the artist that painted the iconic “Freedom from Want” scene of a happy family around the holiday table?

His first wife left him and then killed herself. His second wife was an alcoholic. I think the scenes he painted and which then became such a part of our national mythology were fantasy for him, not reality. Nothing like the family of an alcoholic to be in denial and living in fantasy land!

 

[lampstand]

Since there are more unmarried people than ever, they have to work. Unless they have family to take them in, there is no other way to live.

As for the decline in marriage, it’s not as if everyone is merely stubborn… marriage is not as easy as popping down to the corner store to get some orange juice. If you date someone and they don’t want to get married, it’s awfully hard to get them interested in it.

 

[Phemie]

My mother did not work outside the home from the time she was pregnant with me (early 1970’s) until I was close to 16 and my sister was nearly 14. She then took a job in fast food as she really didn’t have any marketable skills at the time & no college degree, and the flexibility of the fast food job worked out well for her.

My sister is a single mother and works & attends school full time. She is lucky though that her kids have a decent father (her 1st ex husband), and my parents to help her out.

I stayed home until the youngest was 11 and by that time the kids were begging me to go back to work so they could get the same kind of toys their friends had. They knew that even though we were better off than many, and they never had to worry about the basics and even some extras, my being home meant that a second car was not in the cards and big things like Nintendo, if ever bought, would be a group gift at Christmas.

What I enjoyed most when I went back to work was the freedom to buy myself things and without feeling guilty for spending DH’s money. Although he never, ever, did or said anything to make me feel this way, even buying clothes for myself made me feel guilty. It drove DH crazy that I felt that way, and it really annoyed him when I leave the house to go ‘shopping’ and return with something for him &/or the kids but nothing for myself.

The one time that I went out to buy clothes and ended up spending about $400 on two suits that were on sale and that fit me perfectly (that rarely happened) his reaction was “Well, it’s about time!” My friends said I should have just turned around and gone back for more.

I’m still frugal with clothes though – I wear a 13 year old winter jacket and 13 year old t-shirts. Old habits die hard, I guess.

 

[Serap]

I stayed home until the youngest was 11 and by that time the kids were begging me to go back to work so they could get the same kind of toys their friends had. They knew that even though we were better off than many, and they never had to worry about the basics and even some extras, my being home meant that a second car was not in the cards and big things like Nintendo, if ever bought, would be a group gift at Christmas.

What I enjoyed most when I went back to work was the freedom to buy myself things and without feeling guilty for spending DH’s money. Although he never, ever, did or said anything to make me feel this way, even buying clothes for myself made me feel guilty. It drove DH crazy that I felt that way, and it really annoyed him when I leave the house to go ‘shopping’ and return with something for him &/or the kids but nothing for myself.

The one time that I went out to buy clothes and ended up spending about $400 on two suits that were on sale and that fit me perfectly (that rarely happened) his reaction was “Well, it’s about time!” My friends said I should have just turned around and gone back for more.

I’m still frugal with clothes though – I wear a 13 year old winter jacket and 13 year old t-shirts. Old habits die hard, I guess.

I enjoy your posts too Phemie.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I stayed home until the youngest was 11 and by that time the kids were begging me to go back to work so they could get the same kind of toys their friends had. They knew that even though we were better off than many, and they never had to worry about the basics and even some extras, my being home meant that a second car was not in the cards and big things like Nintendo, if ever bought, would be a group gift at Christmas.

What I enjoyed most when I went back to work was the freedom to buy myself things and without feeling guilty for spending DH’s money. Although he never, ever, did or said anything to make me feel this way, even buying clothes for myself made me feel guilty. It drove DH crazy that I felt that way, and it really annoyed him when I leave the house to go ‘shopping’ and return with something for him &/or the kids but nothing for myself.

The one time that I went out to buy clothes and ended up spending about $400 on two suits that were on sale and that fit me perfectly (that rarely happened) his reaction was “Well, it’s about time!” My friends said I should have just turned around and gone back for more.

I’m still frugal with clothes though – I wear a 13 year old winter jacket and 13 year old t-shirts. Old habits die hard, I guess.

I am going to start helping my husband with his business accounting and administrative work. The business will pay me, of course that is money that would have gone to some outside agency or employee. Whatever I get, I plan to donate at least half of it, maybe more, to our local pro-life organization. My husband has always had a problem with tithing and it’s hard for me to contribute as much as I would like to give. But this will be “my” money and I am going to do it.