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Serap
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This is sexist against men IMO. Some men make wonderful SAHDs and are just as valuable to the chldren
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TheRealJuliane
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When do you leave for work? Because that is when your job as a mother is put on hold until you return home at 4:45 p.m. You really cannot seriously claim that you are being a full-time mother while you are at work! Your live-in nanny is doing that job during the daytime hours. Not that you stop being your kids’ mom while you are working, but you are not putting in the hours on that job description.
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Serap
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Hey be supportive here.
When do you leave for work? Because that is when your job as a mother is put on hold until you return home at 4:45 p.m. You really cannot seriously claim that you are being a full-time mother while you are at work! Your live-in nanny is doing that job during the daytime hours. Not that you stop being your kids’ mom while you are working, but you are not putting in the hours on that job description.
I am being extremely supportive of SAHMs in this thread and you continue to also make hurtful comment to us women who work (whether you realize it or not).
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irishpatrick
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Yes, a very interesting line of thought and one that I have tried to propagate. I feel there is no task greater than raising children, because children grow to become adults, and whatever we put into our kids will be seen when that generation becomes adults.
I feel parenting is far more important than being a lawyer or even a doctor.
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SwedishX
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- I think it has had disastrous consequences for the family. With both parents gone during the day, the choice to homeschool isn’t possible, and religious education is left in the hands of others if any at all. Kids that go through the public school system learn their values from their peers and the secular media and necessarliy become subject to the mass brainwashing machine that public schools are. The state in essence becomes the parent.
- Our culture is drunk on the things of the world, more so than at any other time (my opinion) and has learned to operate and think based on feeling and on self rather than society and what Christ’s divine plan requires. I believe this is majorly due in part to children lacking the presence of a mother in the traditional ways as they grow up.
- Children are worse off. Many have no choice but to go through the liberal anti-christian public school systems.
- Weaker without a doubt. Not only are both spouses now taxed by the wicked income tax to pay the private bankers who own the federal reserve, but the core moral fiber which the family has provided in the traditional roles of men and women no longer exists in a general sense. When morals decline, so does the strength of a nation.
- Weaker. Public schools/daycare/and often parochial schools fail to foster a deep love of God and his Son.
- Bad for women and men. Women, by their nature and design are fulfilled in being mothers, wives, and homemakers. Men are fulfilled in bringing home meat and providing for their families. Now both sexes are at odds regarding their roles. Women’s Lib has masculated women, and emasculated men.
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Katie966
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TheRealJuliane
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One of my main reasons for not working very much while my kids were growing up is that I recognized that as a wife and mother, I would still be seen as more responsible for the home and child care, so in effect, I would be working 2 full-time jobs. No thank you! I may work extended hours and I may have sacrificed a lot of my time in favor of my kids, but at least I’m not being worked like a mule during the day and after working, have to come home, cook, clean, take care of the kids, etc. If the husband shares the chores equally, then it helps, and I think younger women are better at simply expecting that everything will be divided up between the adults. In my marriage, we had “division of labor.” He worked outside the home, I work inside the home. Unfortunately he does not value everything I have done over the years, as I know he would if I had worked, even if I had to put the kids into day care to do it. Work is what he knows and work is what he believes in, and I mean paid work, not work building the family’s foundation and keeping the whole thing going.
I know without a doubt that my vocation was motherhood. And that I am not a person who could work outside the home and not be neglectful of my children. Now I have no idea what the rest of my life should look like, though. Once the kids leave home, the job is not really a full-time position. I think the best approach is to have a career that you can resume once the kids are in school full-time, but only work that career part-time while the kids are still at home. Then, once they are in college, you transition back to full-time work just in time to pay for their tuition! My previous experience is as an admin. assistant, a job description that hardly exists any more, since people do their own secretarial and admin. work via their computers. Plus it barely paid anything then.
Although I think women should have the option of staying home full-time, if I had a daughter I would urge her to have a career interest that she could resume. It is no longer 1955, and women don’t go to college to get their “Mrs.” degree. Women need to have that career and keep up with it over the years as their kids grow up. If they outgrow one career, it’s good to find another one and get up to speed before they really need it.
Over the years, I cannot count the number of times that someone has asked me brightly, “And what do YOU do?” and when I say, “I am a homemaker,” I get one of those, “Oh ****, she’s a housewife,” expressions. This is men AND women, equally. As if I will have nothing to say, nothing to offer, and as though I am nothing to bother with since I have no pay grade or status. If the person doesn’t simply say “Oh, really” and then walk away, the women will say, “Oh, I admire you, I could NEVER do that, I find it maddening!” and then they laugh a bit derisively, as though I am such an idiot that being a “housewife” is all I can handle. Some men will say, “I wish my wife would stay home, but she’s a career woman.” Other men just get a somewhat dazed expression and look for other people to talk to. Or, I get a rapid-fire toss-off “Hardest job in the world, right?” and then they disappear to go find someone they can relate to.
It used to bother me, a little. But no more. As with the working mothers on this thread, I know that what I have done was the right path for me and my family. God will give me the next right thing to do, I only have to trust Him.
I know without a doubt that my vocation was motherhood. And that I am not a person who could work outside the home and not be neglectful of my children. Now I have no idea what the rest of my life should look like, though. Once the kids leave home, the job is not really a full-time position. I think the best approach is to have a career that you can resume once the kids are in school full-time, but only work that career part-time while the kids are still at home. Then, once they are in college, you transition back to full-time work just in time to pay for their tuition! My previous experience is as an admin. assistant, a job description that hardly exists any more, since people do their own secretarial and admin. work via their computers. Plus it barely paid anything then.
Although I think women should have the option of staying home full-time, if I had a daughter I would urge her to have a career interest that she could resume. It is no longer 1955, and women don’t go to college to get their “Mrs.” degree. Women need to have that career and keep up with it over the years as their kids grow up. If they outgrow one career, it’s good to find another one and get up to speed before they really need it.
Over the years, I cannot count the number of times that someone has asked me brightly, “And what do YOU do?” and when I say, “I am a homemaker,” I get one of those, “Oh ****, she’s a housewife,” expressions. This is men AND women, equally. As if I will have nothing to say, nothing to offer, and as though I am nothing to bother with since I have no pay grade or status. If the person doesn’t simply say “Oh, really” and then walk away, the women will say, “Oh, I admire you, I could NEVER do that, I find it maddening!” and then they laugh a bit derisively, as though I am such an idiot that being a “housewife” is all I can handle. Some men will say, “I wish my wife would stay home, but she’s a career woman.” Other men just get a somewhat dazed expression and look for other people to talk to. Or, I get a rapid-fire toss-off “Hardest job in the world, right?” and then they disappear to go find someone they can relate to.
It used to bother me, a little. But no more. As with the working mothers on this thread, I know that what I have done was the right path for me and my family. God will give me the next right thing to do, I only have to trust Him.
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TheRealJuliane
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Oh, boy, hang on because you are about to be excoriated…#6 is gonna get you in a lot of trouble!!!
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Serap
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Katie…get yerself barefoot and pregnant.What?
I really hope you don’t mean this in the way I am interpreting it.
Everyone here should read Pope JP II’s “Letter to Women”.
He sums it up perfectly.
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Serap
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AAAHHHHHH HHHHAAAAA!One of my main reasons for not working very much while my kids were growing up is that I recognized that as a wife and mother, I would still be seen as more responsible for the home and child care, so in effect, I would be working 2 full-time jobs. No thank you!
so a working mother has 2 full-time jobs…you said it, not me
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happymommy
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No, I’d say two part time jobs, because you would never be able to give yourself 100% to either of themAAAHHHHHH HHHHAAAAA!
so a working mother has 2 full-time jobs…you said it, not me
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Serap
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I’m one of those women who says to a homemaker, “Oh that’s awesome. It must be so rewarding for you to be there for your family! I envy you.” I would then continue to chat with her and even initiate a friendship if we connect.Over the years, I cannot count the number of times that someone has asked me brightly, “And what do YOU do?” and when I say, “I am a homemaker,” I get one of those, “Oh ****, she’s a housewife,” expressions. This is men AND women, equally. As if I will have nothing to say, nothing to offer, and as though I am nothing to bother with since I have no pay grade or status. If the person doesn’t simply say “Oh, really” and then walk away, the women will say, “Oh, I admire you, I could NEVER do that, I find it maddening!” and then they laugh a bit derisively, as though I am such an idiot that being a “housewife” is all I can handle. Some men will say, “I wish my wife would stay home, but she’s a career woman.” Other men just get a somewhat dazed expression and look for other people to talk to. Or, I get a rapid-fire toss-off “Hardest job in the world, right?” and then they disappear to go find someone they can relate to.
It used to bother me, a little. But no more. As with the working mothers on this thread, I know that what I have done was the right path for me and my family. God will give me the next right thing to do, I only have to trust Him.
I’m sorry that you have fallen victim to our society’s stupid beliefs.
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Serap
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I was only joking
I work 14.5 hours a day (as a mom and at my work combined). That’s definitely more than 2 part-time jobs
SAHMs work the same hours too.Women work their behinds off no matter how they divide their time.
I look forward to coming home to see my kids and then I spend every free minute with them while I’m at home. I love my time with them.
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TheRealJuliane
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I am not being unsupportive. I am merely challenging your statement that you put in 14.5 hour days as a mother while you are working outside the home. How are you hurt by that? I did not insult you or denigrate your choice, but you can’t have it both ways. We each choose our paths, based on what we feel is best for us and our families. I stand by my choice, why are you defensive about yours? You choose to work outside the home which means you are not in the home during the day, correct? You believe that you are a better mom when you have a job, for reasons that you’ve stated here and elsewhere, which is fine.Hey be supportive here.
So why would you try to say that not only are you working away from your children but you are also there for them 14.5 hours a day? You don’t have to fudge the math, just say that you may not be there during the day while you are working but that you believe you are a better mom because you work outside the home. I have heard this from every working mother I know, and I believe it’s the truth for them. I never say, “Oh, you hurt my feelings because you implied that I am not a good mother since I don’t work outside the home!!!”
I have not attacked working mothers in this thread at any point. I have given MY personal experience and stated that I am profoundly grateful that I was able to be there with my sons from day 1 up until the older one left for college. That has nothing to do with anyone else’s experience. I did not say, “And anyone who made a different choice is stupid.” Nor was it implied. It is only MY experience. I was called to be a mom, I did my job well, and I am proud of that. Other people have different experiences and have made different choices. The other poster (sharim?) who took offense at my post in response to the OP’s questions should not have, as there was nothing in that post addressed toward working mothers.
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cviolette
Guest
And it is one of the best vocations available. You were very lucky to be able to stay home and raise your children. Don’t let anyone belittle all you hard important work.**I know without a doubt that my vocation was motherhood. ** And that I am not a person who could work outside the home and not be neglectful of my children. Now I have no idea what the rest of my life should look like, though. Once the kids leave home, the job is not really a full-time position. I think the best approach is to have a career that you can resume once the kids are in school full-time, but only work that career part-time while the kids are still at home. Then, once they are in college, you transition back to full-time work just in time to pay for their tuition! My previous experience is as an admin. assistant, a job description that hardly exists any more, since people do their own secretarial and admin. work via their computers. Plus it barely paid anything then.
Although I think women should have the option of staying home full-time, if I had a daughter I would urge her to have a career interest that she could resume. It is no longer 1955, and women don’t go to college to get their “Mrs.” degree. Women need to have that career and keep up with it over the years as their kids grow up. If they outgrow one career, it’s good to find another one and get up to speed before they really need it.
Over the years, I cannot count the number of times that someone has asked me brightly, “And what do YOU do?” and when I say, “I am a homemaker,” I get one of those, “Oh ****, she’s a housewife,” expressions. This is men AND women, equally. As if I will have nothing to say, nothing to offer, and as though I am nothing to bother with since I have no pay grade or status. If the person doesn’t simply say “Oh, really” and then walk away, the women will say, “Oh, I admire you, I could NEVER do that, I find it maddening!” and then they laugh a bit derisively, as though I am such an idiot that being a “housewife” is all I can handle. Some men will say, “I wish my wife would stay home, but she’s a career woman.” Other men just get a somewhat dazed expression and look for other people to talk to. Or, I get a rapid-fire toss-off “Hardest job in the world, right?” and then they disappear to go find someone they can relate to.
It used to bother me, a little. But no more. As with the working mothers on this thread, I know that what I have done was the right path for me and my family. God will give me the next right thing to do, I only have to trust Him.
I quit work when my kids were (4,7,8,10 years old). While I worked, I had men tell me that I should be at home with the kids. That I was taking some man’s job who needed it support his family. I had one woman give me a book on why mothers should not work. People tried to make me feel guilty about working.
When I quit my job, it was reversed. Some of the guys I use to work with would call or email. When are you going to be done playing house? Aren’t you bored? How can you stay home with those little brats? Don’t you want someone intelligent to talk to besides the boring soccer moms?
No matter what you do someone will look down on it.
For several years after I quit work, when asked what I did, I would say that I use to be an engineer but quit to stay home with the kids. It took me years to just say that I was a stay at home mom.
By husband does not respect my work at home either.
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TheRealJuliane
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Because my last post was so long, I’ll add this one instead of going back in and editing.
Working mothers do have 2 full-time jobs, and feel guilty for leaving their kids and also torn at work because they still have the responsibility for the kids’ care. Not that they are there, but who screens the nannies to find one that’s just right? Who keeps track of the kids’ shot records, friends’ names, clothing sizes, etc.? Who takes off from work when a kid is sick and can’t go to school? Who goes to each and every parent teacher conference? I submit that it’s the mom who still has those responsibilities, yet she is out of the home for at least 8 hours a day so is always struggling to catch up once she gets home.
I think feminism ripped all women off - not only is being a mother and homemaker denigrated because women are expected to work and hold up their end of things, but women get zero respect for doing it all when they work outside the home. I would be dead, literally, if I’d tried to work while my sons were growing up. I literally could not have done it. There is no way my husband would have ever helped, he’d have just said, “Pay the housekeeper to stay longer.” So at least I have done the job I was created to do, and not had to tear myself apart in addition.
Working mothers do have 2 full-time jobs, and feel guilty for leaving their kids and also torn at work because they still have the responsibility for the kids’ care. Not that they are there, but who screens the nannies to find one that’s just right? Who keeps track of the kids’ shot records, friends’ names, clothing sizes, etc.? Who takes off from work when a kid is sick and can’t go to school? Who goes to each and every parent teacher conference? I submit that it’s the mom who still has those responsibilities, yet she is out of the home for at least 8 hours a day so is always struggling to catch up once she gets home.
I think feminism ripped all women off - not only is being a mother and homemaker denigrated because women are expected to work and hold up their end of things, but women get zero respect for doing it all when they work outside the home. I would be dead, literally, if I’d tried to work while my sons were growing up. I literally could not have done it. There is no way my husband would have ever helped, he’d have just said, “Pay the housekeeper to stay longer.” So at least I have done the job I was created to do, and not had to tear myself apart in addition.
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Serap
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re-read my post honey…i said 14.5 hours of work…not being a moma!
I still consider myself to be a full-time mom, but I think we are caught up in semantics here. I am with my kids 1.5 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evenings…less time than you spent with your children; I understand.
I am a working mom, yes. I spend less time with my kids than you did; yes. I may miss out on my son’s first steps by himself; yes. I miss my kids dearly while at work; yes. I think about them all the time and call my nanny at least once a day; yes.
You are a good mother RealJulianne; you made your sacrifices and now you are wondering what path you should take at this crossroad in your life. If I were in your shoes, I’d be damn proud of myself at that crossroad. It’s hard and I tip my hat to you.
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Serap
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TheRealJuliane
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Serap, you cut off several of your hours - Here’s what women do.I was only joking
I work 14.5 hours a day (as a mom and at my work combined). That’s definitely more than 2 part-time jobs
Women work their behinds off no matter how they divide their time.
I look forward to coming home to see my kids and then I spend every free minute with them while I’m at home. I love my time with them.
5:30 a.m. get up, get children ready for school, go to work (or return home)
7:30 a.m. Work (inside home or outside)
3:00 p.m. Pick up children (if not working outside home)
5:30 p.m. Pick up children (if working outside home)
6:00 p.m. Make dinner, serve dinner, clean up afterward (some husbands do this, mine never has)
7:00 p.m. Kids/homework/baths depending on ages of children
8:00 p.m. Tidy house, start a load of laundry, put kids to bed
8:30 p.m. Put kids to bed again after they get up
9:00 p.m. Finish laundry or forget and leave it in the dryer
9:30 p.m. Get clothes ready for next day, make lunches, check calendar to make sure no one has a doctor appointment the next day.
10:00 p.m. Fall into bed
That would be 17 hours, more or less.
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themeginthemoon
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See, I have been secretly training my husband. When baby was really little and had a lot of check-ups, I would sometimes make him go alone and send a little list of questions for him to ask to make sure all the bases were covered with her health and well-being. That way, if something were to happen and I could not make a Dr. Appointment / dress her for daycare or school/ make a parent teacher conference, he would not be totally helpless! Ideally we both try to make these things, but if it is more ideal for one or the other than that person will go.Some might say I am a ‘product of feminism’ or a virulent product of society. but really, I just want my daughter to be ok if for some reason, something happened to me. I am young, but my health has never been totally stable, and you just never know what can happen. He is prepared to brush her hair, make sure her clothes match, tell her about womanhood, and all of those things. I don’t feel like it’s his job to shoulder all of this alone, but I just like to know he feels secure in being a good parent to our daughter and future children if God decided to take me early.
SAHM’s work SO HARD. I did it for the first year of her life, and boy was it tough! It was not right for me once she was old enough to want more out of her day than to be held, fed, and sung to. Working makes me value my time with her so much more, and it is right for us at this point. No one should minimize the role of a SAHM or a working mom, both do what they feel is best for their family. Ok, the eternal optimist has now left the building
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