Has your pastor tried to stop hand-holding during the Our Father? If so, what happened?

[az_4_faith]

Some people are so focused on God and Me that they forget we are one family in Christ and need to remember that . . . . . please share how we can show others in our parish that indeed we are one family and one body of Christ? It is not me and my church alone and God is not mine alone and it is not just me in that church during Mass and we are to come “together” as a whole faith community.:

As Catholics, we are “one family and one body of Christ” in the Eucharist, in our reception of Holy Communion during the Mass, not in our “hand-holding” during the Our Father.

That is the over-all problem with the hand-holding gesture. It has taken on this “unity” meaning that was never intended by the Church’s liturgical directives.

If we like holding hands at the Our Father so much, then why not hold hands then during the Gloria, the Santus and the Agnus Dei? Why not the entire Mass? (How about right after the little kid behind me wipes his nose on his hand? EEK!)

We are united in Jesus, the Blessed Sacrament. We are united in our worship around one altar. Holding hands doesn’t make it any more special.

 

[ThuribleGuy45]

Our Priest doesn’t stop it or enforce it, he just said that we do need to remember its about God and WE not God and Me we are one family and sadly some people do think of it just as (ME and Jesus) and that is why we are losing many Catholics to other faiths, sadly we are guilty in our parishes all too often of not being personal or caring enough or reaching out enough. Some people are so focused on God and Me that they forget we are one family in Christ and need to remember that.

If you don’t want to hold hands during the our father then just don’t and if you don’t want to shake your brother and sister in Chris’s hands during the peace then don’t but I don’t have a problem with either. If you don’t want this happening then please share how we can show others in our parish that indeed we are one family and one body of Christ? It is not me and my church alone and God is not mine alone and it is not just me in that church during Mass and we are to come “together” as a whole faith community.

I’ve been to many parishes that come across as so cold and uncaring, go to Mass, and focus on me and My God and leave after. And if someone is hurting in my parish, well, too bad.

I’m so glad I belong to a Parish that has their focus on the Lord but we don’t forget to make sure that everyone knows that All Are Welcome in this place and that we are one body and we is all of us with God and not just one of us with God.

Blast me if you must… I’m glad I have grown up with several wonderful parishes that don’t make a big “oh, my goodness” over hand holding or not hand holding or shaking hands or not shaking hands. To each his own:thumbsup:

Thank you for this post, kamz. A rare breath of reason in a topic which always seems amazingly divisive. I am in a “cold” parish, and I certainly agree on how much the “Me and Jesus” mindset seems related to being indifferent to the needs of those around us. I’m not crazy about across-the-aisle handholding, we don’t do it in our parish, and it’s certainly not a cure for parish coldness. But we do hold hands within our family – an act which too many posters in older threads on this subject seem to feel is grounds for excommunication at least. An Assemblies of God place is 600 yards from our parish – and a whole lot of our parishoners have been scolded, “chilled,” or “indifferented” out of our doors and into theirs.

 

[Mag_Uidhir]

As Catholics, we are “one family and one body of Christ” in the Eucharist, in our reception of Holy Communion during the Mass, not in our “hand-holding” during the Our Father.

Correct, we are united by Holy Communion, not by handholding.

 

[panther]

I personally detest the hand-holding during the Our Father, to the point that at one time I used to dread that part of the Mass. I find it so distracting during the prayer:

• Is my hand sweaty?
• Did I just see that kid wipe his nose before he took my hand?
• Ow, that person is grabbing me so hard my rings are digging into me!
• Was that a squeeze? Should I squeeze back?

You get the picture . . .

Now, I close my eyes and clasp my hands together, which seems to get the message across. But I do wish that our pastor would make a statement about this, especially with fall/winter and cold seasons coming on.

Also, I notice that at daily Mass, no one holds hands, but on Saturday/Sunday Masses they do. I wonder why that is.

 

[kamz]

During the flu season our Priest does make a statement that for the sake of everyone we should refrain from hand holding and if we know we have a cold we can just say peace instead of shaking hands during peace, it works out great and eveyone is very respectful.

 

[colliric]

No. Our family keeps our hands in prayer for the whole Mass. I tell my children we are praying the Mass.

But this last Sunday we went to a different church the hand holding wasn’t an issue so much as lots of people were raising their hands during the Alleluia then twirling their wrists at the same time. It was very distracting. The “band” had their opening number and then it just seemed very “entertaining” for the whole Mass. My husband thought maybe charismatic?

Yep that Catholic church sounds like mine. Mine is a Catholic Charismatic Renewal parish.

We’re Catholics still so don’t worry about that. But our way of doing the Latin Rite mass isn’t for everyone really, in fact I really think it’s simply there because of the whole widespread Pentacostal movement in the Protestant Churches.

Alot of ex-pentacostals come to the Catholic faith first through CCR parishes and personally I think that is why the Pope continues to allow and even support it. I’m happy attending any Catholic church really, but CCR is really helping to pull me into the faith, I intend on settling down at my local standard Latin Rite parish after I finish RCIA.

 

[Holland]

Not in my parish but in my sister’s parish (in another state) most of the folks stopped holding hands in the last year or so. I asked my sister about it and she said it started as a request during a serious outbreak of the flu and a lot of people just didn’t go back to holding hands.

 

[fix]

Our Priest doesn’t stop it or enforce it, he just said that we do need to remember its about God and WE not God and Me we are one family and sadly some people do think of it just as (ME and Jesus) and that is why we are losing many Catholics to other faiths, sadly we are guilty in our parishes all too often of not being personal or caring enough or reaching out enough. Some people are so focused on God and Me that they forget we are one family in Christ and need to remember that.

If you don’t want to hold hands during the our father then just don’t and if you don’t want to shake your brother and sister in Chris’s hands during the peace then don’t but I don’t have a problem with either. If you don’t want this happening then please share how we can show others in our parish that indeed we are one family and one body of Christ? It is not me and my church alone and God is not mine alone and it is not just me in that church during Mass and we are to come “together” as a whole faith community.

I’ve been to many parishes that come across as so cold and uncaring, go to Mass, and focus on me and My God and leave after. And if someone is hurting in my parish, well, too bad.

I’m so glad I belong to a Parish that has their focus on the Lord but we don’t forget to make sure that everyone knows that All Are Welcome in this place and that we are one body and we is all of us with God and not just one of us with God.

Blast me if you must… I’m glad I have grown up with several wonderful parishes that don’t make a big “oh, my goodness” over hand holding or not hand holding or shaking hands or not shaking hands. To each his own:thumbsup:

I must disagree with your post. Why would you think hand-holding is the sign necessary for some person to think any particular parish is welcoming? If some type of emotionalism is to be introduced into the mass for this purpose then I must conclude the answer to the problem, if one really exists, is better catechesis.

 

[kamz]

I must disagree with your post. Why would you think hand-holding is the sign necessary for some person to think any particular parish is welcoming? If some type of emotionalism is to be introduced into the mass for this purpose then I must conclude the answer to the problem, if one really exists, is better catechesis.

I didn’t say I necessarily think that it is but I do think way, way, way too much is being made of this when we have far bigger things to deal with.

I must admit to having a good laugh over how some people can get this bent out of shape over hand holding when their are such more serious things going on in the Catholic church that this would be the last thing on my list that needs to be worked out.

I say to each his own, if my Parish Priest tells us to not hand hold then I will do as he asks as I know my Parish would also but I think it is up to each individual Parish and I can see that my Parish feels the same way, if our Bishop and our Priest don’t say “stop hand holding” we won’t but if they do we will.

But I do think that we have many Catholics who do have the “Jesus and Me” attitude and it has nothing to do with the hand holding, I just have myself come across many Catholics who care very little for the salvation of anyone else but themselves and I do find it sad. But that is a total different thread.

 

[fix]

I didn’t say I necessarily think that it is but I do think way, way, way too much is being made of this when we have far bigger things to deal with.

I must admit to having a good laugh over how some people can get this bent out of shape over hand holding when their are such more serious things going on in the Catholic church that this would be the last thing on my list that needs to be worked out.

I say to each his own, if my Parish Priest tells us to not hand hold then I will do as he asks as I know my Parish would also but I think it is up to each individual Parish and I can see that my Parish feels the same way, if our Bishop and our Priest don’t say “stop hand holding” we won’t but if they do we will.

But I do think that we have many Catholics who do have the “Jesus and Me” attitude and it has nothing to do with the hand holding, I just have myself come across many Catholics who care very little for the salvation of anyone else but themselves and I do find it sad. But that is a total different thread.

I think people see this as one more source of division and manipulation of the mass. In some sense it is a small matter, but in another sense it may be a symptom of a much larger problem.

Your notion that some think of the mass as exclusively “Jesus and me” may be missing the mark. Those displeased by introducing these things may see that as a disregard for the mind of the Church and possibly a way of being insenstive to others especially when it is “forced”.

If families want to spontaneously hold hands I am not arguing it is grossly wrong. What I oppose are situations when it is basically forced because so many do it.

 

[ncjohn]

I think people see this as one more source of division and manipulation of the mass. In some sense it is a small matter, but in another sense it may be a symptom of a much larger problem.

Your notion that some think of the mass as exclusively “Jesus and me” may be missing the mark. Those displeased by introducing these things may see that as a disregard for the mind of the Church and possibly a way of being insenstive to others especially when it is “forced”.

If families want to spontaneously hold hands I am not arguing it is grossly wrong. What I oppose are situations when it is basically forced because so many do it.

You make some very good points here, fix. I think you have really hit the key problem on the head when you say “…a way of being insensitive to others, especially when it is ‘forced’.” None of us like to have something forced on us, especially if we feel we have valid resons for not wanting to do it.

In the end, as Archbishop Chaput stated, it’s about being charitable and sensitive to each other. Far too many, on both sides of the question, are not. I wish more bishops would follow the Archbishop’s lead in putting out a statement reminding everyone of that. I really think that would solve the problem except for the small handful that are just going to be upset about anyone who does anything that is different than the way they prefer it.

Peace,

 

[kamz]

Here is my question, if it really upsets and bothers some so much, why not resolved to do something to change it? IF something bothered me this much in my parish, I would be bringing it up to my Priest and my bishop and lets my fellow parishioners know my feelings, I really would, I would stop whining and complaining and see what I could do and get others involved, its one thing to just sit and talk but it is another to take action.

If it bothered people in my parish and they posed it to the Bishop, I would have great respect for them for taking this seriously and bringing it to his attention and if the Bishop said the hand holding should stop, I would say “no problem”
Obviously it doesn’t bother me enough to do this so I won’t as I’ve stated, I don’t have a problem with it but if someone in my parish was posting about how much it bothered them I would hope they would follow through and have the guts to do something to change it.

Change can’t happen by wishing for it… you need to step up and do it… take action.

 

[ncjohn]

Here is my question, if it really upsets and bothers some so much, why not resolved to do something to change it? IF something bothered me this much in my parish, I would be bringing it up to my Priest and my bishop and lets my fellow parishioners know my feelings, I really would, I would stop whining and complaining and see what I could do and get others involved, its one thing to just sit and talk but it is another to take action.

If it bothered people in my parish and they posed it to the Bishop, I would have great respect for them for taking this seriously and bringing it to his attention and if the Bishop said the hand holding should stop, I would say “no problem”
Obviously it doesn’t bother me enough to do this so I won’t as I’ve stated, I don’t have a problem with it but if someone in my parish was posting about how much it bothered them I would hope they would follow through and have the guts to do something to change it.

Change can’t happen by wishing for it… you need to step up and do it… take action.

I don’t disagree with you, but I know that there are many parishes, and at least some dioceses, where those concerns are ignored and where those who legitimately just don’t want to participate for whatever reason are then judged in uncharitable ways or simply end up resentful for being pressured to conform. I know that fix is in that situation, and I feel great sympathy for him for that. At the least the priest should remind people about being charitable but there are some priests who are as big of offenders to charity as some in the pews.

I actually have a website set up to collect signatures for a petition to the USCCB–since they are the ones with the authority to regulate this–asking them to put out a letter similar to Archbishop Chaput’s to be disseminated throughout the country to eliminate the confusion. Unfortuntely the person who was setting this up went into the “down” cycle of his bipolar disorder and we didn’t get the tabulating system completed. If/when we get it running I will post a link so that all those who want to can help us ask.

In the mean time, it behooves each of us to promote that charity to help reduce the division this causes because of the lack of charity.

Peace,

 

[Lepanto]

I didn’t say I necessarily think that it is but I do think way, way, way too much is being made of this when we have far bigger things to deal with.

I must admit to having a good laugh over how some people can get this bent out of shape over hand holding when their are such more serious things going on in the Catholic church that this would be the last thing on my list that needs to be worked out.

Taking care of the big and small issues are not mutually exclusive. We should be able to take care of both. Many “big” issues have roots in “small” ones. Moreover, any willfull abuse of the rubrics of the Mass qualifies as a major issue, IMHO.

 

[kamz]

Ok, but I still don’t get, if it is so wrong, why isn’t the Pope doing something about it and instructing his Bishops to put a stop to it? I don’t get how if it is so wrong why is it allowed?

 

[ncjohn]

Ok, but I still don’t get, if it is so wrong, why isn’t the Pope doing something about it and instructing his Bishops to put a stop to it? I don’t get how if it is so wrong why is it allowed?

While there are those who claim it to be “wrong” there is no evidence whatsoever that that is so, and much evidence that it is not.

Since the controlling authority has commented that “there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father”, it is pretty conclusive that they–as a body–do not consider it wrong or they would have commented as such to the question.

The Vatican was given the specific opportunity to condemn it when asked if it could be substituted for the Sign of Peace and answered that it could not, but specifically did NOT say that there was anything wrong with the holding hands itself.

And finally, the document written to deal with abuses just a couple years ago, Redemptionis Sacramentum, specifically did not mention it at all. Given the number of abuses it dealt with, big and small, it is nearly impossible to believe they would have just “missed” commenting on an issue so well known if they considered it a problem.

In the end, it is up to the individual, within the bounds of charity of not pushing it on anyone else.

Peace,

 

[kamz]

While there are those who claim it to be “wrong” there is no evidence whatsoever that that is so, and much evidence that it is not.

Since the controlling authority has commented that “there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father”, it is pretty conclusive that they–as a body–do not consider it wrong or they would have commented as such to the question.

The Vatican was given the specific opportunity to condemn it when asked if it could be substituted for the Sign of Peace and answered that it could not, but specifically did NOT say that there was anything wrong with the holding hands itself.

And finally, the document written to deal with abuses just a couple years ago, Redemptionis Sacramentum, specifically did not mention it at all. Given the number of abuses it dealt with, big and small, it is nearly impossible to believe they would have just “missed” commenting on an issue so well known if they considered it a problem.

In the end, it is up to the individual, within the bounds of charity of not pushing it on anyone else.

Peace,

thank you for answering that for me

 

[DAWNCUROLE]

In our former parish, the pastor did not like anyone holding hands. Generally, as a family, I would hold hands with my husband and children and only offer my hand to someone else if they offer their hand first. I did not want to offend anyone. The pastor however, told the children at a school Mass (yes, I verified it with the school) not to hold hands, it was wrong, and if your parents try, slap their hand and say no, it is not allowed. While I will follow the pastor’s instruction as a matter of respect. Do NOT undermind my authority with my child. If you wish to make a statement to parents, tell the parents. Do NOT send a message like this home with the children.

 

[kamz]

In our former parish, the pastor did not like anyone holding hands. Generally, as a family, I would hold hands with my husband and children and only offer my hand to someone else if they offer their hand first. I did not want to offend anyone. The pastor however, told the children at a school Mass (yes, I verified it with the school) not to hold hands, it was wrong, and if your parents try, slap their hand and say no, it is not allowed. While I will follow the pastor’s instruction as a matter of respect. Do NOT undermind my authority with my child. If you wish to make a statement to parents, tell the parents. Do NOT send a message like this home with the children.

slap their hands away? that is the most awful thing I have ever heard and to undermind my authority as a parent… argh!!! I would be having some serious words with my Priest if he acted like that!

 

[Brendan]

In our former parish, the pastor did not like anyone holding hands. Generally, as a family, I would hold hands with my husband and children and only offer my hand to someone else if they offer their hand first. I did not want to offend anyone. The pastor however, told the children at a school Mass (yes, I verified it with the school) not to hold hands, it was wrong, and if your parents try, slap their hand and say no, it is not allowed. While I will follow the pastor’s instruction as a matter of respect. Do NOT undermind my authority with my child. If you wish to make a statement to parents, tell the parents. Do NOT send a message like this home with the children.

I had just the opposite experience. Our former parish got a new pastor who tried to implement handholding.

We specifically told our kids that they should not do so. We had teachers and older students telling our kids that they now had to hold hands during the ‘Our Father’, inspite our our clear instructions (to the kids AND the teachers) that they should not.

We have since moved to another parish that has more respect for the parents primary role in the religious education of their children.