Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

I think the best way to understand how and why we have to hate the sin and love the sinner is to appreciate the relationship between hate and love…and the best way to do this, I found personally, is by studying St. Thomas Aquinas.

Love, according to St. Thomas, is the most basic motive of the human heart. In fact, the human heart cannot do anything except love.

To love is to will for the good of something or someone, right? Think about each and every one of your actions, emotions, thoughts throughout your life, and you will see all of them are for the good of those that we love.

We are happy when those we love receive what we perceive to be good.
We are sad when those we love lose what is good.
We are frightened for the loss of the good of our loved ones.
We hate those that threaten the good of our loved ones.
We love those that love our loves.
We care for our loves.
And others too numerous to describe.

Even when we sin we love: we love ourselves excessively to the detriment of God and others.

Even those that are in Hell love: they love themselves so much they cannot love God, let alone others.

Therefore, charity is “just” the regulation of our heart’s normal tendency to love towards God and men by the power of the will and grace.

Just performing this exercise should convince us that actually hate is not the opposite of love but it is part and parcel of loving. Since love is the willing for the good of something or someone, then hate is the willing to prevent evil harming that same someone or something. Love is the polarization of the whole being of man towards a good, and the polarization away from the opposite of that good corresponds to hate. That is why the best way to learn who someone is is to know his or her hates in life. And that is also why hate is not the opposite of love, but indifference.

Therefore, by now we should understand why we should hate the sin and love the sinner. It is precisely BECAUSE we love the sinner that we hate sin! By loving the sinner, by willing to do what is good for the sinner, we hate anything and everything that will harm the sinner, which is sin.

To fully be able to do this, we must understand one more innovation in thought by Christianity, and that is evil is completely alien to creation. Sin is completely unnatural, it shouldn’t be in the universe in the first place. When someone sins, it is completely foreign to him. That’s why we call the imperfection in our souls and bodies caused by the sin of our first parents the stain of original sin. Therefore the sins of someone is NOT part of him. It is precisely because of this alienness of sin that kills the soul, just something as alien in a body, like a bullet in the brain, kills it. It is this idea, this article of faith, that helps us hate the sin and love the sinner.

God bless!

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

No. Because they’re BUGS. They are INSECTS.

Don’t compare plucking the wings off flies and burning ants at a young age to burning a dog alive as a young adult. Do you really think these scenarios are the same?

There’s a crucial difference. No actual evidence? Yes. Yes there is actual evidence.
I’d like to ask… Where would you draw the line here? OH, they didn’t hurt a PERSON, they just made a mistake?

So we let them go, and say the same thing when they kill another dog? Microwave a cat? Is the line only drawn when they kill a person, and then we all shrug, and act like we didn’t see the signs?

(Also, is it me… Or do an oddly high number of Christians act like human beings are the only living creatures deserving ethical treatment?)

No, Christians believe that humans should be ethically treated as humans. Insects should be treated ethically as insects. Dogs should be ethically treated as dogs. Cats should be ethically treated as cats. And so on.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**Respect for the integrity of creation **

2415 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity. Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.

2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

God bless!

 

[Vicktoria]

No. Because they’re BUGS. They are INSECTS.

(Also, is it me… Or do an oddly high number of Christians act like human beings are the only living creatures deserving ethical treatment?)

I find it odd that you seem to be treating these ~Children~, obviously very Sick, and in a Great need of ~Help~, not ~Harm~… as if ~they~ were the insects… Can you taste the double standards you seem to have? Or is it me?

 

[grandfather]

I find it odd that you seem to be treating these ~Children~, obviously very Sick, and in a Great need of ~Help~, not ~Harm~… as if ~they~ were the insects… Can you taste the double standards you seem to have? Or is it me?

Again I wonder how people who would want these young people imprisoned for life for their cruelty, feel about abortionists.

 

[lakotak]

Again I wonder how people who would want these young people imprisoned for life for their cruelty, feel about abortionists.

I feel that all of these things are an abomination against society, and that these people should be locked away until such time, if that time would ever come, that they have a conversion of heart and see how wrong these things are. I don’t think they should be allowed to wreck their evil upon society at will. In case of the abortionists, this is truly an abomination, but it is legal. How odd, when you think about it. There are laws for cruelty to an animal, but man is fine with the killing of the unborn. Is there something wrong with this picture??? However, where there are laws for a crime, then let justice prevail and take this evil out of society so others can live in more harmony. Even God restrains evil, should we not try to do the same for the sake of all within the laws that man has put forth within our society, and make sure these laws are proper and used properly, not looped holed to death.Would it make sense if the authorities knew someone was a serial killer, to let him/her loose on society? The same is true for these teens, until such time that they have a true conversion of heart, then they need to be out of society.

 

[Vicktoria]

I feel that all of these things are an abomination against society, and that these people should be locked away until such time, if that time would ever come, that they have a conversion of heart and see how wrong these things are.

If often seems to me, that we, as Christians, too often try to take that power, and judge, for ourselves, as if we had the capacity to do so, without God, and define what seems to be, to us, just punishments for these kinds of behaviors… Rather than Pray for forgiveness, of ourselves, for our own disobedience, and for the forgiveness of others, who we see doing wrong, but somehow become misguided into believing there’s nothing we can do… except ~fight~…as if that could possibly ~fix~ things…

When we can so easily ~ask~… and often ~seem~ to, every week at Mass, or every day for many… by saying the simple Our Father, but… it doesn’t seem like we do it with Meaning, and Intention ~often~ enough…

Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

I suspect it works even Better when we ask God to guide and forgive Others, even Before ourselves…

 

[grandfather]

There are laws for cruelty to an animal, but man is fine with the killing of the unborn. Is there something wrong with this picture??? However, where there are laws for a crime, then let justice prevail and take this evil out of society so others can live in more harmony.

.

So what do you say about a society that has laws governing the killing of dogs, cats and rodents, but sanctions the killing of babies? What does God say about such a society and how will He deal with it? “As it was in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, so shall it be in the time of the coming of the Son of Man”. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. It was destroyed by fire from heaven.

Go look up the approved Marian miracle in Akita, Japan. Mary there said that men have become so evil that God will punish all the are left will wish they wre dead.

Torturing dogs is part of the evil of our perverted culture, but a minor part.

The civil laws are part of the perversion. They are unjust if the allow killing babies. If you say punish those who break the laws that exist, but there is nothing to do about the greater evil that exists, because the law allows it, think again. You are part of the crowd that says you personally don’t like abortion, but would not interfere with someone’s phoney rights. You have given up and accepted the evil as the way it is.

 

[lakotak]

So what do you say about a society that has laws governing the killing of dogs, cats and rodents, but sanctions the killing of babies? What does God say about such a society and how will He deal with it? “As it was in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, so shall it be in the time of the coming of the Son of Man”. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. It was destroyed by fire from heaven.

Go look up the approved Marian miracle in Akita, Japan. Mary there said that men have become so evil that God will punish all the are left will wish they wre dead.

Torturing dogs is part of the evil of our perverted culture, but a minor part.

The civil laws are part of the perversion. They are unjust if the allow killing babies. If you say punish those who break the laws that exist, but there is nothing to do about the greater evil that exists, because the law allows it, think again. You are part of the crowd that says you personally don’t like abortion, but would not interfere with someone’s phoney rights. You have given up and accepted the evil as the way it is.

So what do you say about a society that has laws governing the killing of dogs, cats and rodents, but sanctions the killing of babies?

This society has certainly turned to evil and it is quite evident when the killing of the unborn baby overshadows the unfortunate fate of lesser creatures. This is what I say.

**What does God say about such a society and how will He deal with it? “As it was in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, so shall it be in the time of the coming of the Son of Man”. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. It was destroyed by fire from heaven.

Go look up the approved Marian miracle in Akita, Japan. Mary there said that men have become so evil that God will punish all the are left will wish they wre dead.

Torturing dogs is part of the evil of our perverted culture, but a minor part.**

Yes God will eventually deal with the evil of this society in a perfect way, but until that time, I feel that He expects us to establish laws that are aligned with His Law for our society until the time when he will exercise perfect judgment on the world.

The civil laws are part of the perversion. They are unjust if the allow killing babies. If you say punish those who break the laws that exist, but there is nothing to do about the greater evil that exists, because the law allows it, think again. You are part of the crowd that says you personally don’t like abortion, but would not interfere with someone’s phoney rights. You have given up and accepted the evil as the way it is.

Yes, I agree the civil laws are part of man’s mess. These lawmakers have lost the sense of right and wrong, as in God’s law, they only see what will profit them-greed in most cases. Let me straighten you out on this last issue. I try when ever I can to go against laws that are evil and I am not a part of the crowd that follows the larger crowd. I voted for every pro-life candidate in this last election that I could find. I do not sit around and say I am against abortion and try not to do something about it. This goes for all the other laws concerning crimes and proper punishment. Now for the record, I have NOT given up and accepted the evil as the way it is. If I did then why would I care if a poor unfortunate animal was burned alive or a baby ripped from its mother womb. These are evil, but that doesn’t mean me or anyone else has to accept it. We are supposed to fight against evil, and as far as I know my conscious is clear on this issue.

 

[Vicktoria]

We are supposed to fight against evil

God is supposed to fight against Evil, We are meant to submit to God’s will. You sit there and quote all the things you do, as if ~you~ do them, as if ~you~ have power… but I’ve yet to see you give credit where it’s due… Perhaps that is something you might focus your struggles on, instead of worrying over how these ~Children~ should be ~Punished~ Rather than ~Directed~ towards the ~Love~ God has for them… because so far, ~your~ way, would only drive them further from it.

 

[lakotak]

God is supposed to fight against Evil, We are meant to submit to God’s will. You sit there and quote all the things you do, as if ~you~ do them, as if ~you~ have power… but I’ve yet to see you give credit where it’s due… Perhaps that is something you might focus your struggles on, instead of worrying over how these ~Children~ should be ~Punished~ Rather than ~Directed~ towards the ~Love~ God has for them… because so far, ~your~ way, would only drive them further from it.

When a person desires to fight against evil in his society, where do you think that desire comes from-Satan. The last I heard was when a person’s desired goodness, truth, justice, these things are of God, not of evil. Maybe I misread the scriptures??? At least in my view, when a person fights for rights that are aligned with God’s Will and Law then this person or group is trying to bring good to a situation. To answer your first sentence, yes God does fight against evil, through us for His Kingdom on earth. Since you assumed what you have said, I hope this clears up any misconceptions.

 

[Vicktoria]

When a person desires to fight against evil in his society, where do you think that desire comes from-Satan.

Atheists too, in their pride, fight against evils we ~all~ see in our society… fighting on the “right side” isn’t the problem… it’s ~how~ people fight, that most often is.

I find it sad that I have to keep rephrasing myself, and saying the same thing to you, over and over… someone who I took to be a fellow Catholic and Christian, yet I’m struggling to see it now… so at this point, I will leave you, and just pray… for the hard hardheartedness I see in you… perhaps it’s merely a plank in my own eye.

Kyrie Eleison,

~V~

 

[po18guy]

You know I am finding this really, really, almost impossible, in this one case to hate the sin, yes, but love the sinner?

There are two teens on trial in Baltimore, MD for setting a young pitbull on fire. The dog finally had to be put down. But what that poor creature went through. The pictures just make you cry. Even the police officer that had to put the dog out was crying on the stand. I am finding it just about impossible to not just hate the sin in this case. How is it possible to love someone that would do something of this nature? I just can’t wrap my head around this. Any thought to how to deal with something like this would be appreciated.

Thanks

Years back in Seattle, three youths were tried for beating a donkey named “Pasado” to death. In his sentencing, Superior Court Judge Michael J. Fox (the judge, not the actor), remarked that he had received dozens of letters urging him to send a strong message that such behavior would not be tolerated. He continued, saying that in the same week he sentenced a man to prison for strangling a prostitute and dumping her body in a dumpster. Not one letter was sent on her behalf. It seems that Jesus thought differently and teaches us to do so, as well.

 

[grandfather]

**

Yes God will eventually deal with the evil of this society in a perfect way, but until that time, I feel that He expects us to establish laws that are aligned with His Law for our society until the time when he will exercise perfect judgment on the world.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

I think the best I could hope for would be that the two would be locked up for a very, very long time, or preferable, for life, so they would never have the opportunity to do this or worse again. Animal abusers, many times, turn to people abusers. I am sorry, I just can’t imagine someone doing something so cruel, there was absolutely no valid reason that this should have happened except that they wanted to see something die in a torturous manner.

life??? They are misguided teens…life for abusing an animal? Do you eat meat? are cows inferior to dogs? I in no way believe in animal cruelty, it’s wrong, but how do you justify what cows go through in meat plants and put dogs on a pedestal?

 

[hxcCatholic413]

No. For being dangerous psychopathic personalities with no possibliity of ever being rehabilitated.
This from the woman who has openly suggested that pit bulls be illegal.

no possibility of rehabilitation? wow! way to throw forgiveness out of the window prison is a great evil one must go through…these young teens are misguided, with Christ they can be redeemed and set on the straight and narrow path.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Wow… I hope I misunderstand you, otherwise I find your post… very disgusting.

I DO believe they should be locked away for life. Not for “killing a dog”, but for LIGHTING A DOG ON FIRE.

While I cannot know the circumstances here, this wasn’t some quick death.
This wasn’t self defense, it wasn’t putting an animal out of it’s misery, it wasn’t juvenile idiocy… it was two very disturbed boys SPECIFICALLY making an animal suffer.

These are signs of sociopathic behavior.

Do you eat meat? Are you aware of what those animals go through? No animal should be tortured, but putting dogs on a pedestal compared to other animals is ridiculous.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

I find it odd that you seem to be treating these ~Children~, obviously very Sick, and in a Great need of ~Help~, not ~Harm~… as if ~they~ were the insects… Can you taste the double standards you seem to have? Or is it me?

FTW!

 

[Newbie2]

No. For being dangerous psychopathic personalities with no possibliity of ever being rehabilitated.
This from the woman who has openly suggested that pit bulls be illegal.

Well, such a pyscological determination would have to be made, wouldn’t it?

This kind of hate or behavior does not need to be let loose on society, yes, lock them away where their evil cannot not harm anyone or anything again until it can be determined if they can be “rehabilitated” at all.

Although the boy’s actions are disturbing and send up a huge red flag, it seems that such a determination in this case should be made (as well as a determination of guilt or innocense) be made in advance of sending them to prison.

Exactly!!

It may bear reminding folks, that this is EXACTLY how the Gestapo were trained to torture & murder their fellowmen: They were given dogs to raise, & then required to kill them in a variety of stomach turning ways.
After the war, many of these men admitted that once they tortured a few puppies that they were deeply attached to, that murdering other people was “nothing”.
Pychopaths & sociopaths cannot be cured. They can only be kept away from the rest of us.

And you received your professional psycological training where? Granted, many cannot. But a blanket statement such as this has, methinks, no support. Some can be controlled, perhaps some cured. They don’t all need to be locked away.

It is an assault on their human dignity to do so IF, and granted that may be a big IF with very few cases that qualify, we simply use incarceration as the easiest way to handle all these cases.

While I wouldn’t argue with your psychological analysis of the behavior, fact is the target of the crime is an animal. Should we be punishing people for psychological tendencies instead of actual crimes committed? Should we assume bigger criminal tendencies where there is no actual evidence that they have committed one? Wow, they burned a dog, maybe they’ll mass murder 50 people next time. Thats it? Just like that?

Mind you, many kids play with bugs all the time, oftentimes maiming them. Do we send them to psychiatric wards while they are young?

That’s an excellent point, C. While it’s easy to make a sideline diagnosis on this particular case, every one in an individual. Did one kid talk the other one into doing this? If so, does that make them equally as guilty, equally sociopathic? Are they likely to do anything like this in the future?

Many questions unanswered. Yep, if a reasonable determination is made that one or both of these kids is dangerous to society, society should be protected.

I think a number of posts here reflect sort of a knee-jerk response: Anyone who would consider doing this is disturbed or evil, they are likely to turn this evil towards people, so we should lock them up. This MAY be the case, but we don’t have enough information.

Don’t compare plucking the wings off flies and burning ants at a young age to burning a dog alive as a young adult. Do you really think these scenarios are the same?

So we let them go, and say the same thing when they kill another dog? Microwave a cat? Is the line only drawn when they kill a person, and then we all shrug, and act like we didn’t see the signs?

(Also, is it me… Or do an oddly high number of Christians act like human beings are the only living creatures deserving ethical treatment?)

I think you’re missing C’s point. We don’t just “let them go”. They get evaluated and are helped. If they cannot be helped, they are incarcerated for our protection.

There is a balance between “locking them all up” and “letting them all go”. Finding that balance isn’t easy.

 

[RosaryFan]

You know I am finding this really, really, almost impossible, in this one case to hate the sin, yes, but love the sinner?

There are two teens on trial in Baltimore, MD for setting a young pitbull on fire. The dog finally had to be put down. But what that poor creature went through. The pictures just make you cry. Even the police officer that had to put the dog out was crying on the stand. I am finding it just about impossible to not just hate the sin in this case. How is it possible to love someone that would do something of this nature? I just can’t wrap my head around this. Any thought to how to deal with something like this would be appreciated.

Thanks

God commands us to “love” one another, even sinners. If you understand God’s meaning of “love” (not our meaning for “love”, but God’s), then it will make sense. As we know, ANYONE can love good people. The challenge is to “love” the not-so-good people. God’s definition of “love” is wanting and doing what is best for the other’s salvation. It doesn’t mean we have to have a warm adoring feeling toward sinners, but we should want for them what is necessary to get them to heaven. This is especially so with sinners, because they need God’s mercy all the more. We should want them to have a change of heart so that they are better able to attain God’s mercy and maybe get to heaven. This is “loving our neighbor as ourselves”. We should want salvation for those we like and those we don’t like, because after all, we are all sinners in need of God’s mercy.

You are correct in that it is impossible to have warm and adoring feelings toward those who have hurt us. That is not God’s meaning for love - that is a man-made meaning for love. God’s meaning for love goes much deeper - it is simply willing their salvation.

 

[Zooey]

no possibility of rehabilitation? wow! way to throw forgiveness out of the window prison is a great evil one must go through…these young teens are misguided, with Christ they can be redeemed and set on the straight and narrow path.

This is not a matter of being misguided.
This is a matter of being guided & controlled by satanic forces.
Can they be brought to Christ? Perhaps they can…but they would have to WANT to be redeemed.
Sociopaths don’t want forgiveness. They don’t want redemption. They don’t want anything except to destroy.

I do wonder when I hear about some of these abortion doctors…I wonder how many of them started out by torturing animals. I have a chilling feeling that if we knew how many of them started out by, say, setting a dog on fire, that we would have a whole new realization of what the Culture of Death is really all about. Of where it begins its corruption of a human heart & soul.