Have enough kids and don't trust NFP, options?

[Busyfather]

Another child would greatly complicate our lives and potential guarantee at least one of us works until death vs. retiring in our late 60’s. Prayer and trying to avoid relations during her guesstimated fertile time has worked so far for us but as her period approaches I get very scared every month. I simply don’t trust NFP, the fact that she was supposed to show up much later but NFP allowed her to show up much sooner is no minor detail. I know more people that have sinned, trying to prevent pregnancy than haven’t. I like the spontaneity of sex vs. play amateur gynecologist before heading to bed. To add insult to injury, my wife despises sex, much like doing the dishes or folding laundry except for a couple days in the middle of her cycle, when we have to avoid each other. I know several guys that have had vasectomies and far prefer the permanent results but I don’t want to break the rules and I don’t want to have another child so I’m stuck between a rock and hard place. Is there anything I can do, eat or practice that might lower my sperm count (a lot) or otherwise make me less fertile? Every time we’ve even started thinking about another child, we need do little more than hold hands and she’s pregnant like clockwork. I can find great or deplorable statistics on every form of birth control except abstinence, properly performed vasectomies & death.

 

[1ke]

during her guesstimated fertile time

No method of NFP uses “guesstimates”.

If you aren’t comfortable with the method you learned, work with an instructor in that method or another until you/she are more secure in reading fertility signs.

I simply don’t trust NFP, the fact that she was supposed to show up much later but NFP allowed her to show up much sooner is no minor detail.

I don’t understand this sentence. At all.

To add insult to injury, my wife despises sex, much like doing the dishes or folding laundry except for a couple days in the middle of her cycle, when we have to avoid each other.

If your wife “despises sex” perhaps she needs to see her doctor or a counselor. That seems a bit extreme and unbalanced.

 

[Hume]

Another child would greatly complicate our lives and potential guarantee at least one of us works until death vs. retiring in our late 60’s. Prayer and trying to avoid relations during her guesstimated fertile time has worked so far for us but as her period approaches I get very scared every month. I simply don’t trust NFP, the fact that she was supposed to show up much later but NFP allowed her to show up much sooner is no minor detail. I know more people that have sinned, trying to prevent pregnancy than haven’t. I like the spontaneity of sex vs. play amateur gynecologist before heading to bed. To add insult to injury, my wife despises sex, much like doing the dishes or folding laundry except for a couple days in the middle of her cycle, when we have to avoid each other. I know several guys that have had vasectomies and far prefer the permanent results but I don’t want to break the rules and I don’t want to have another child so I’m stuck between a rock and hard place. Is there anything I can do, eat or practice that might lower my sperm count (a lot) or otherwise make me less fertile? Every time we’ve even started thinking about another child, we need do little more than hold hands and she’s pregnant like clockwork. I can find great or deplorable statistics on every form of birth control except abstinence, properly performed vasectomies & death.

The “Too long, didn’t read” version of every answer you’re going to get from good, devout Catholics is “NFP or celibacy”.

 

[Busyfather]

1. We’ve had no NFP training, so currently she’s guesstimating her fertile time.
2. Her parents were practicing NFP taught by a couple who presumably knew what they were doing. They were following all the rules and my MIL got pregnant with my wife.
3. She has seen a doctor, physically everything is fine. The only unbalanced thing we have is four small children that need our constant attention generating a lot of stress.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think that he means that she only feels “in the mood” during the middle of her cycle, when she is fertile. This is something that does affect many women.

Plus if she’s already tending to four small children, she’s probably tired out and maybe sex is not exactly at the top of her priority list right now.

 

[jlc2k2]

To be blunt, you aren’t using NFP if you haven’t taken the time to learn it. So you don’t trust something you aren’t doing. Have you checked out the Marquette method? It uses a monitor to help you identify fertile periods and may help reduce the feeling of playing gynecologist. Though I think actually taking the time to thoroughly learn any method would help reduce that feeling.

 

[Rozellelily]

Hi @Busyfather,

I don’t know if you are already aware but I have heard that men who saunas regularly have lower sperm counts but I can’t say whether it is true or not…

There are a few studies that seem to support this but with that kept in mind that this study was extremely small.

I’m not suggesting this necessarily right or effective for you. I’m sure your commonsense knows this though and no need to write it.

It is just something general information that I have come across before and I thought might interest you

Seminal and molecular evidence that sauna exposure affects human spermatogenesis - PubMed

No external funding was sought for this study and the authors have no conflict of interest to declare.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[TheLittleLady]

With no training, you are practicing “guestimating”.

There are several methods as well as technology that are modern NFP. Not every method is going to fit every woman.

My personal suggestion, find a Creighton instructor, learn the method and also invest in wearable tech like Ava https://www.avawomen.com/ to cross check temp.

With 4 little kids, your wife needs help. Have a mother’s helper come in a couple of days each week, have a housecleaner come in once a month to do deep cleaning, keep the kids yourself on Saturday mornings and let her go have “me” time, make date night a priority.

 

[1ke]

We’ve had no NFP training, so currently she’s guesstimating her fertile time.

Then you are not actually using NFP.

No wonder there is stress and concern.

Please contact an instructor and learn a method of NFP.

Her parents were practicing NFP taught by a couple who presumably knew what they were doing. They were following all the rules and my MIL got pregnant with my wife.

There are newer methods that include technology that weren’t available to her parents 25+ years ago, if one of those methods would give you more confidence— for example Marquette.

Creighton, Billings, and Sympto-Thermal are all reliable methods as well, but don’t add a technology component.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

You will literally have to wait years to not be tired, if ever. I don’t think that is a fair argument for not wanting intimacy for any extended period. I have five small ones, but that doesn’t give me license to fulfill my role as a husband because I am always tired.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I didn’t say it gives the wife license to do anything. I’m simply stating a fact in addition to the fact that Cecilia stated.

The many men who post on this forum that their wives have lost interest in sex often seem to be blind to obvious facts like the wife having fatigue or stress from her daily responsibilities. As another poster suggested, perhaps the husband could get the wife some domestic or child care help, could get a sitter and plan a special date night, etc.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

I agree on all of that. The same fatigue can impact husbands too; spouses need to be mindful and do what they can to help.

I just didn’t want that to be perceived as an excuse; it is often a reality for couples, but not a good excuse, long-term.

 

[Busyfather]

Ok, the part that I left out that may reveal our situation a little better. I stay home with the kids, and work part time when something worthwhile presents itself. She works from home full time and needs to be left alone. Our house for the most part allows that but it’s ultimately on me to make sure she has the quite she needs to work. The three older ones are gone for school 6:30am - 3:00pm but our 2 year old is at home and he is quite the handful. The other three combined at his age would have been less work.

Regarding getting in “the mood” it really is only during her fertile time, outside of that there’s zero interest. With fewer kids, we were able to get away sometimes to a B&B away from all that might be generating stress, even then, if outside of her fertile time there was still no interest.

 

[1ke]

I’m not sure I understand what you are really looking for here.

You haven’t learned a real method of NFP. You want to avoid children right now. When you’ve wanted to conceive you have, but you seem upset that you conceived when you were trying to conceive.

You are asking about ways to lower your own male fertility (which no one here should reply to because medical advice is forbidden, and most of that stuff is old wives tales anyway.)

Trying to lower your potency and have relations during fertile times is likely to result in what you don’t want right now— a pregnancy. In any method of NFP you would be said to have abandoned the method and engaged in achieving behavior if you aren’t abstaining during fertile times.

 

[jlc2k2]

None of that really changes anything. Your options are periodic abstinence or complete abstinence.

I’m not being glib here and it’s not that I can’t sympathize. I have 4 kids as well. 3 school aged and 1 2 year old. I spent the past 2 weeks working from home and trying to recover from bronchitis while pregnant. I get it. But your best option isn’t to try to find ways to lower your sperm count (which is likely to land you with a 5th child). It’s to find a real method of NFP that works for you and your wife and commit to learning it.

 

[Irishmom2]

I’m not sure I understand what you are really looking for here.

You took the words out of my mouth, 1ke!

OP, you sound as if you think your life is somehow different than anyone else with kids. Learn NFP properly. Parents all over are tired. That’s parenthood. At least for a while. I don’t know what world you live in, but entertaining one child is not more difficult than 4 at once. Unless you are actually thinking of leaving the entertaining up to the oldest three.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Don’t bring children into the world that you don’t want, or that you aren’t able to care for appropriately, including providing for their emotional needs. The 4 you have already deserve the best possible relationships with their mom and dad. Be responsible.

 

[Anicette]

You can search the pregnancy rates of the couples who use NFP without a training, and of the couples who used one method of NFP after having received a training with an instructor. The stats speak for themselves. You have much more chances to end up with another child without a proper training.
The good news is if your wife know herself well, (and that’s likely, as she already observe herself) any choosen method of NFP would be much more easier. It would confirm that she understand how the fertility works and have ALL the rules.

As NFP to be a sacrifice, yes, it may be for some. You can see it a reminder that the natural outcomes is procreation as God wants it. We only should have serious reasons to avoid it. You are blessed, few couples understand it.

 

[mdbaumert]

My wife and I practice NFP as Protestants (albeit on the likely road to becoming Catholics) and we love it. A couple quick thoughts from our experience:

1. It’s helpful for both of you to sit down with a formal trainer in the various methods. Learn what’s happening in her body and marvel at what God has made in her. It’s also helpful to learn about the history of NFP as well as how it works scientifically. It’s really fascinating.
2. My wife does not have to check prior to intercourse every single time. She usually checks in the morning and before going to sleep. She’ll only double-check if we think the potential for pregnancy is more likely.
3. To point #2, it definitely increases our communication and intimacy as we talk about the potential repercussions of another pregnancy and what the signs are that we’re both seeing from her body. There are times that we both agree to abstain because her body is showing significant enough signs of fertility and I’ve come to realize that I’m actually strong enough to not have seemingly strong desires met immediately. Shocking.
4. Sex on demand is overrated as something to satisfy our deep longings for connected-ness and knowing/being known. NFP has been a good practice for us to do together and helps us know each other more.

Again, all of this is our experience, but I do hope that it could provide you some peace to hear those who practice it that enjoy it.

 

[Inquiry]

Even if that is true, using that information to deliberately reduce the chances of conceiving would count as contraception.