Have Fundamentalists distorted the Pro-Life Movement?

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Well, that is a good point, Manny. Bombing an abortion clinic is much more than necessary force. But what about, say, physically preventing a doctor who has scheduled ten abortions for the day from entering his office? It would surely result in a battery charge, but lives might be saved.
You cannot kill abortion doctors period. Prayer, charitable reason discussion can only change them.

Offer sacrifices. A pro-lifer who believes in the pro-life movement but condones killing abortion doctors. This would be pure hypocrisy and damage the pro-life movement. Let God decide the faith of the doctor.

Human beings cannot play judge on who lives and who dies. God alone is entitle to this.
 
You cannot kill abortion doctors period. Prayer, charitable reason discussion can only change them.
Did you read that post of spoilt’s at all? It wasn’t talking about killing abortion doctors.
 
You cannot kill abortion doctors period. Prayer, charitable reason discussion can only change them.

Offer sacrifices. A pro-lifer who believes in the pro-life movement but condones killing abortion doctors. This would be pure hypocrisy and damage the pro-life movement. Let God decide the faith of the doctor.

Human beings cannot play judge on who lives and who dies. God alone is entitle to this.
Just curious…Would you support the death penalty for abortionists?
 
Just curious…Would you support the death penalty for abortionists?
I do not support the death penalty period because of the mere possibly of executing the innocent men or women.
 
Well, that is a good point, Manny. Bombing an abortion clinic is much more than necessary force. But what about, say, physically preventing a doctor who has scheduled ten abortions for the day from entering his office? It would surely result in a battery charge, but lives might be saved.
Physically? Do you mean a physical fight? If that is what you asking me, you cannot beat people up.
 
Physically? Do you mean a physical fight? If that is what you asking me, you cannot beat people up.
I believe that what he is referring to is standing in the person’s way and actively blocking them.
 
I do not support the death penalty period because of the mere possibly of executing the innocent men or women.
So you don’t have a moral objection to state executing the guilty. (Just don’t trust the criminal justice system to get the right guy)

That about right?
 
So you don’t have a moral objection to state executing the guilty. (Just don’t trust the criminal justice system to get the right guy)

That about right?
I believe in life in prisonment is more suitable for any criminal. Second, they can be properly counsel to do what is right and avoid evil. Remember what Jesus said as one of the corporal works of mercy.

"36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Matthew 25:36

I am against the death penalty. I have a moral objection to state executing the guilty.
 
I believe that what he is referring to is standing in the person’s way and actively blocking them.
As long as that man does not use violence against the doctor, he should be fine. Violence is not a Christian value.
 
I am against the death penalty. I have a moral objection to state executing the guilty.
You do realize that you stand against the RCC on that issue? The RCC has always up held the right of the state to excute criminals, even to this day. Your “moral objection” has no basis in catholic teaching.
 
You do realize that you stand against the RCC on that issue? The RCC has always up held the right of the state to excute criminals, even to this day. Your “moral objection” has no basis in catholic teaching.
I based my moral objection from reading John Paul II’s Gospel of Life. In that encyclical, Pope John Paul II is against the death penalty.

From Para. 56 of Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), an encyclical letter on various threats to human life which Pope John Paul II issued on March 25, 1995.

"This is the context in which to place the problem of the death penalty. On this matter there is a growing tendency, both in the Church and in civil society, to demand that it be applied in a very limited way or even that it be abolished completely. The problem must be viewed in the context of a system of penal justice ever more in line with human dignity and thus, in the end, with God’s plan for man and society. The primary purpose of the punishment which society inflicts is “to redress the disorder caused by the offence.”(46) Public authority must redress the violation of personal and social rights by imposing on the offender an adequate punishment for the crime, as a condition for the offender to regain the exercise of his or her freedom. In this way authority also fulfills the purpose of defending public order and ensuring people’s safety, while at the same time offering the offender an incentive and help to change his or her behaviour and be rehabilitated.(47)
 
As long as that man does not use violence against the doctor, he should be fine. Violence is not a Christian value.
Hence why I posted the actual statistics, as I believe that the figure you posted significantly overstates the number of events that were actually violent (as one poster pointed out, blocking the doctor could well result in a battery charge if any physical contact was involved, even is the contact wasn’t violent). I also still question the logic behind this thread.
 
Hence why I posted the actual statistics, as I believe that the figure you posted significantly overstates the number of events that were actually violent. I also still question the logic behind this thread.
I suggest you read the sources. Your doubt is your own problem. The general reasoning behind this thread is to tell Christians who adhere to Pro-Life Movement should not condone violence against Abortion Clinics and Doctors.
 
I based my moral objection from reading John Paul II’s Gospel of Life. In that encyclical, Pope John Paul II is against the death penalty.
The catechesm, which JPII promulgated, speaks nothing about a moral objection to the death penalty. On the contrary it upholds it as a right and duty of the state.

2266 The State’s effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.

I think your out of touch with catholic teaching to have a moral objection to executing the guilty. I understand that people, such as JPII, can have a problem with how and when it is adminstered but a moral objection to the principle of capital punishment puts you in opposition to catholic teaching. I understand why you have such a problem with violence against abortionists. You’re almost a pacifist.
 
I suggest you read the sources. Your doubt is your own problem. The general reasoning behind this thread is to tell Christians who adhere to Pro-Life Movement should not condone violence against Abortion Clinics and Doctors.
I did read the sources: as you can see, I posted the very source from which your statistic was derived. The general reasoning you posted just now is fine, but you chose to couch your initial post not as a general admonition to Christians, but in divisive language that you didn’t back up (“Fundamentalists condone violence against abortion clinics (implying both that this is held by most fundamentalists and that they have been behind all violent incidents) and are responsible for the failures of the pro-life movement”).

The general reasoning you stated right now I completely agree with, but your decision to blame the a large group of people for the wrong actions of a very few individuals, and furthermore to bring up it up as the cause of the pro-life movements struggles by citing incidents that by and large happened over 10 years ago…those are decisions of yours that I find in poor judgment.
 
The catechesm, which JPII promulgated, speaks nothing about a moral objection to the death penalty. On the contrary it upholds it as a right and duty of the state.

2266 The State’s effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.

I think your out of touch with catholic teaching to have a moral objection to executing the guilty. I understand that people, such as JPII, can have a problem with how and when it is adminstered but a moral objection to the principle of capital punishment puts you in opposition to catholic teaching. I understand why you have such a problem with violence against abortionists. You’re almost a pacifist.
Woah, me a pacifist. An American Soldier, who defend the United States of American against all enemies foreign and domestic.

I read those paras from the Catechism but the death penalty should rarely be used.

Let me point something out from the Catechism:

2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

Furthermore, John Paul the Great said,

“May the death penalty, an unworthy punishment still used in some countries, be abolished throughout the world.” (Prayer at the Papal Mass at Regina Coeli Prison in Rome, July 9, 2000).

“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.” (Homily at the Papal Mass in the Trans World Dome, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999)

Now. The Catechism was written in the mid 1990s. Yet, John Paul held a more traditional opposition to the death penalty. Does it make him any different than me?
 
I did read the sources: as you can see, I posted the very source from which your statistic was derived. The general reasoning you posted just now is fine, but you chose to couch your initial post not as a general admonition to Christians, but in divisive language that you didn’t back up (“Fundamentalists condone violence against abortion clinics (implying both that this is held by most fundamentalists and that they have been behind all violent incidents) and are responsible for the failures of the pro-life movement”).

The general reasoning you stated right now I completely agree with, but your decision to blame the a large group of people for the wrong actions of a very few individuals, and furthermore to bring up it up as the cause of the pro-life movements struggles by citing incidents that by and large happened over 10 years ago…those are decisions of yours that I find in poor judgment.
👍 I agree. I don’t support attacks on clinics but I can sympathize with their intent. To blame them for the failure of the pro-life movement, and put all that blame on “fundamentalists” is simply absurd. Truth be told, the pro-life movement wouldn’t exist on nearly the level that it does if there were not evangelicals to take up the cause…Way to throw your pro-life brethren under the bus Manny.
 
Whoa, when was the last time you heard of anyone bombing an abortion clinic? With all the problems in the world today, the day after the election (although I see you started this thread the day before the election), I fail to see your point in bringing up something that is no longer an issue other than to smear fundamentalists. If this was not your intent, I ask you what your intent is.
The intend to is convince Fundamentalist who adhere to using violence against abortion clinics not to condone any sort of violence. Second, not all Christian Fundamentalist believe in killing abortionists. This thread is specifically addressed to individual Fundamentalist who strongly believe that killing abortion doctors is justified in order to save an unborn infant.
 
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