Have Fundamentalists distorted the Pro-Life Movement?

[Mannyfit75]

How many of these boogeyman fundamentalists do you believe are out there who would condone acts of violence against said clinics or those who work at said clinics? Personally, I’ve never met one.

You want facts:

Multiple instances of anti-abortion violence in Florida:
Pensacola, FL: This city was a focal point for anti-abortion crime from mid 1984 to mid 1994: 9

1984-JUN: An abortion clinic was bombed

1984-DEC: The same clinic was bombed again

1986-MAR: A second clinic was broken into and vandalized; two female employees were assaulted. John Burt, a former member of the KKK, and his daughter were tried and convicted. John Burt became the local leader of Rescue America.

1993-MAR: Michael Griffin, allegedly a member of Rescue America, killed Dr. David Gunn outside an abortion clinic. Griffin’s lawyers claimed that Burt had brainwashed Griffin into committing the killing. (There is a consensus among mental health professionals that this sort of “Manchurian Candidate” programming is impossible). Griffin was convicted and given a life sentence.

1994-JUL: Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian minister and leader in Defensive Action killed a physician and bodyguard outside another abortion clinic; he wounded the wife of the bodyguard. He was sentenced to both life imprisonment on federal charges, and execution on state charges.

1994-AUG: Five KKK groups demonstrated adjacent to an abortion clinic in Melbourne FL. They were opposed to abortions given to whites; they encourage abortions to persons of other races. They named Hill their hero of the month.

The “killing season” in Canada and northern New York state:
Late October and early November esd referred to as the “killing season” by some abortion-rights advocates. Abortion providers in northern New York state and Canada were attacked on five of the six years from 1994 to 1998:

1994-NOV-8: Dr. Garson Romalis of Vancouver BC was shot in the leg.
1995-NOV-10: Dr. Hugh Short of Ancaster ON (Near Hamilton) was shot in the elbow.
1996: No shootings occurred.
1997-OCT-28: A physician in Rochester NY received minor shrapnel wounds.
1997-NOV-11: Dr Jack Fainman of Winnipeg MN was shot in the shoulder.
1998-OCT-23: Dr Barnett Slepian from Amherst NY (near Buffalo) was murdered.

All five were shot through a glass window or door at their homes. Rewards totaling $547,000 (about $365,000 in US funds) were offered by Canadian authorities for information leading to the conviction of the person(s) responsible. There is speculation that the timing of the shootings was tied to Remembrance Day, celebrated in Canada on NOV-11, and to Veteran’s Day celebrated in the U.S. on the same day. This is the occasion when the country remembers its war dead. The shooter in each case used a rifle, and shot from the rear of the doctors’ homes at dusk or in the evening. James Charles Kopp (a.k.a. Atomic Dog) was indicted in 1999-JUN for the murder of Dr. Slepian. He was on the FBI’s “10 most wanted Fugitives” list for years until he was arrested in France and returned to the U.S. for trial. It is obvious that Kopp was helped to remain out of sight by an underground group.

In 2003-MAY, James Kopp was given the maximum sentence of 25 years to life in prison for the Slepian murder. He claims that the death of Dr. Slepian was an accident; he only meant to injure or disable him. Some speculate that Kopp was also responsible for the other “killing season” attempted murders.

 

[Mannyfit75]

and on the side note: The majority of Pro-Life organization oppose violence against abortion clinics.

 

[Mannyfit75]

There are groups that promote violence towards abortion clinic. The members of these groups are unknown. At guess estimate probably 500 or more individuals might be involved.

Web sites allegedly promoting violence

Pro-Life Virginia - Army of God at armyofgod.com/ This web site quotes many biblical passages including: Luke 22:36: “…he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
Jeremiah 48:10: “Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.”
Psalm 58:10: “The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.”

Someone, perhaps webmaster Rev. Donald Spitz, stated on the web site: “I believe helpless babies deserve to be protected and defended from those who plan to kill them - just like the people in the World Trade Center deserved to be defended. If someone was able to stop the terrorists before they were able to crash the plane into the World Trade Center, that someone would be deemed a hero. In the same manner those who stop babykilling [sic] abortionists from murdering innocent children are heroes.”

The Christian Gallery at christiangallery.com/ promoted “God’s plan for government [that] will one day be restored to its rightful place of authority in the land you presently occupy.” It had sections of its Web page devoted to people and organizations that are leading this restoration. One section, the Nuremberg files, was found guilty of threatening abortion providers and was heavily fined. Their internet service provider removed the entire website in 1999-FEB. We suspect that the individual web sites will reappear elsewhere on the Internet. Included in the Christian Gallery were: Pro-life Virginia at: christiangallery.com/prolifeva/ (No longer online) Their page had a large picture of Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian minister, who was convicted of the murder of John Britton, an abortion provider in Pensacola FL. The caption reads “American Hero”; they state that the reason why he is on death row is that he saved “innocent babies from being murdered by babykilling [sic] abortionist John Britton.” No mention is made that Hill killed Dr. Britton, that he killed a bodyguard Jim Barret, and wounded his wife.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Defenders of the Defenders of Life at: christiangallery.com/prolifeva/homepg2.html#recover (No longer online). They published The Defensive Action Statement
“We the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary, including the use of force, to defend innocent human life (born and unborn). We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child.”

They further state that the murder of Dr. Britton was “morally justified if it was necessary for the purpose of defending innocent human life.” The statement was signed by a number of Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthodox pastors and priests, heads of Christian and Pro-life groups, etc.

Capitol Area Christian News at: christiangallery.com/bray.html In its review of local activities during the summer of 1997, they commented:
“There was a brief flurry of abortuary destruction in the early part of the year (bringing joy to the hearts of those who pray for spiritual revival)…But it is bothersome to be reminded of the call God has placed upon the lives of others. Paul Hill has been sentenced to death. Apparently he was called [by God] to the sacrificial, public witness he made…Paul Hill was called to abort the abortionist, and his wife and children were called to suffer the loss of husband and father for righteousness sake…A righteous man, our brother in the Faith, has been sentenced to die for doing justice and showing mercy. He is to be executed for obedience to our Lord.”

The site also has a letter from Paul Hill which describes his thought processes before, during, and after the murder of an abortion provider and his bodyguard. When informed that he would be charged with two counts of murder, he writes:

“I knew then I had accomplished my task. I continued to lift my heart to the Lord, thankful for success. I had not failed in my errand and He had not failed me. The Lord had done great things through me.”

Later, he wrote:

“Much of the joy I felt after shooting the abortionist, and still feel today, is the joy of having freely obeyed Christ after long being enslaved to fearful obedience to men.”

The Nuremberg Files at bestchoice.com/atrocity/ (now inactive) has been called “the most controversial” website on the Net. 5 Neal Horsley leads a “coalition of concerned citizens throughout the USA…[who are] cooperating in collecting dossiers on abortionists in anticipation that one day we may be able to hold them on trial for crimes against humanity.” They patterned their web site name after the Nuremberg trials after World War II when Nazi war criminals were tried for crimes against humanity. They attempted to prepare files on all individuals that they term “abortionists.” These are people who conduct abortions, own clinics, or provide protection to clinics. They included judges who interpret laws “authorizing child-killing or oppressing pro-life activists” and politicians who create such laws. Their web site contained lists of abortion providers, judges, legislators, spouses etc. Included with many are their home and office addresses. Physicians who have been murdered have had their names crossed off; Dr. Barnett Slepian of Amherst NY, who was assassinated in late 1998-OCT is one. When a physician is injured, their name is grayed out. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution commented: “Horsley’s Web site, ‘The Nuremberg Files: Visualize Abortionists on Trial,’ features images of fetus body parts bordered by dripping blood and includes a list of doctors who perform abortions. Some doctors’ names are accompanied by personal information, such as photos, home addresses, names of children and wives.” The president of Planned Parenthood, Gloria Feldt, accused the web site of inciting violence. A spokesperson for the National Abortion Federation, Sharon Lau, commented: “It may not come right out and say, ‘Go out and kill these people,’ but with the blood dripping around the list, I think it’s certainly implied.”

The website was added to a list of threats against abortion providers that formed part of a case against 12 pro-life activists and 2 pro-life organizations. On 1999-FEB-2, a federal jury found the accused guilty and assessed damages of $108 million. The media incorrectly linked the web site’s owner, Neal Horsley of Carrollton, GA, to the accused. In fact, there never was a judgment or injunction against the website; there never was a connection between the defendants and the website. The case had involved pictures of abortion providers in the form of “wanted posters,” that the defendants allegedly distributed in 1995.
The Creator’s Rights Party hosts The Christian Gallery where the Nuremberg Files resided. Referring to the assassination of abortion clinic workers, clinic bombing, etc, they state: “That violence exists because the violence against the unborn creates a vortex of violence that, unless it is arrested will threaten every person in the USA…the American Medical Association is leading this nation toward its own destruction. To ignore the plight of the unborn child being slaughtered meets all the criteria of a condition of mental illness called denial.” 7 This group is offering to hold public seminars which it calls “Post Abortion Assassination Seminars” (PAAS). Their intent is to educate the public with their beliefs.

 

[Mannyfit75]

How many of these boogeyman fundamentalists do you believe are out there who would condone acts of violence against said clinics or those who work at said clinics? Personally, I’ve never met one.

They are out there my friend. They do not make up the majority of Pro-Life movement but they claimed to be Fundamentalist Christians and used “BIBLE ALONE” as their sole rule of faith to justify their actions against abortion by using all means necessary.

 

[Lil_Cat]

You want facts:

Multiple instances of anti-abortion violence in Florida:
Pensacola, FL: This city was a focal point for anti-abortion crime from mid 1984 to mid 1994: 9

1984-JUN: An abortion clinic was bombed

1984-DEC: The same clinic was bombed again

1986-MAR: A second clinic was broken into and vandalized; two female employees were assaulted. John Burt, a former member of the KKK, and his daughter were tried and convicted. John Burt became the local leader of Rescue America.

1993-MAR: Michael Griffin, allegedly a member of Rescue America, killed Dr. David Gunn outside an abortion clinic. Griffin’s lawyers claimed that Burt had brainwashed Griffin into committing the killing. (There is a consensus among mental health professionals that this sort of “Manchurian Candidate” programming is impossible). Griffin was convicted and given a life sentence.

1994-JUL: Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian minister and leader in Defensive Action killed a physician and bodyguard outside another abortion clinic; he wounded the wife of the bodyguard. He was sentenced to both life imprisonment on federal charges, and execution on state charges.

1994-AUG: Five KKK groups demonstrated adjacent to an abortion clinic in Melbourne FL. They were opposed to abortions given to whites; they encourage abortions to persons of other races. They named Hill their hero of the month.

The “killing season” in Canada and northern New York state:
Late October and early November esd referred to as the “killing season” by some abortion-rights advocates. Abortion providers in northern New York state and Canada were attacked on five of the six years from 1994 to 1998:

1994-NOV-8: Dr. Garson Romalis of Vancouver BC was shot in the leg.
1995-NOV-10: Dr. Hugh Short of Ancaster ON (Near Hamilton) was shot in the elbow.
1996: No shootings occurred.
1997-OCT-28: A physician in Rochester NY received minor shrapnel wounds.
1997-NOV-11: Dr Jack Fainman of Winnipeg MN was shot in the shoulder.
1998-OCT-23: Dr Barnett Slepian from Amherst NY (near Buffalo) was murdered.

All five were shot through a glass window or door at their homes. Rewards totaling $547,000 (about $365,000 in US funds) were offered by Canadian authorities for information leading to the conviction of the person(s) responsible. There is speculation that the timing of the shootings was tied to Remembrance Day, celebrated in Canada on NOV-11, and to Veteran’s Day celebrated in the U.S. on the same day. This is the occasion when the country remembers its war dead. The shooter in each case used a rifle, and shot from the rear of the doctors’ homes at dusk or in the evening. James Charles Kopp (a.k.a. Atomic Dog) was indicted in 1999-JUN for the murder of Dr. Slepian. He was on the FBI’s “10 most wanted Fugitives” list for years until he was arrested in France and returned to the U.S. for trial. It is obvious that Kopp was helped to remain out of sight by an underground group.

In 2003-MAY, James Kopp was given the maximum sentence of 25 years to life in prison for the Slepian murder. He claims that the death of Dr. Slepian was an accident; he only meant to injure or disable him. Some speculate that Kopp was also responsible for the other “killing season” attempted murders.

Thank you for this list (finally). The last instance was in 1999. This is 2008, almost 2009, so that was 10 YEARS AGO

Once again, why is this being brought up now?

You have yet to prove that this is being carried out by fundamentalists. The only religious affiliation I see on your list is Presbyterian. I wasn’t aware that Presbaterians identify themselves as fundamentalists. Even if they do, then you have ONE person on your list is even associated with religion and if you read what you wrote, the guy was a FORMER minister.

This is the last time I will ask you what your intent. I have been ignored by you, MannyFit75, when all I am doing is asking simple questions.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

They are out there my friend. They do not make up the majority of Pro-Life movement but they claimed to be Fundamentalist Christians and used “BIBLE ALONE” as their sole rule of faith to justify their actions against abortion by using all means necessary.

So out of the millions of people who use “BIBLE ALONE”, you give me 11 incidents over the last 24 years. 3 of those were in Canada and 1 involved a demonstration, leaving us with 7 incidents of violence in American in the last 24 years.

Dare I say those would be classified as isolated or the act of a solitary nut acting alone rather than some sort of widespread paranoia and violence fueled by “BIBLE ALONE”?

 

[With_Questions]

Sigh:

Umm…it is is insufficient to take a few isolated data points and scientifically conclude that “fundamentalists have distorted the pro-life movement”.

Anyone objectively analyzing this data would observe several problems such as small sample sizes, uncontrolled experiments and probably several others that I am not aware of.

This is just as bad as the “Why do Catholics live longer” thread a few while back.

I am not an expert on this by any means, but I do know enough to categorically state that it is insufficient to take a few isolated data points in an uncontrolled environment and make any sort of general observations on this data that has any scientific validity.

I understand you are not a scientist. I am not myself. But I do know enough to recognize gross violations of scientific principles.

So you have not been aware of this. I understand. You have now been told.

So ,if you want to continue down this path however, you are just demonstrating your willfull ignorance and obstinance.