Have gotten no help at my parish feel like leaving the church....

[Corinne3]

With all my marital issues lately, I’ve literally gotten very little, minimal help from my parish, or others, so I feel, honestly like leaving to go to a non-denominational church, where there is a prayer group, bible study, the pastor is available for counseling, etc. and I feel the spirit there much more. I am really torn, as I will always be a Catholic of course. I feel no wonder so many are leaving the church, there is so much lacking, in the way of spirit led marriage stuff, and other things, for teens, etc. I am confused.

I, and we have met with our Priests, but all they say is basically “aw that’s horrible, and you have every reason for an annulment”…that’s it. They also said, they have had much more serious issues than ours on their hands…etc… They didn’t even open their Bibles once :shrug:and show us what the Lord says, like the other pastor did, when husband and I met with him. This pastor blatently opened up his Bible, and pointed Romans 1 out to my husband, showing him the path to destruction he was on in his infidelity. He also opened up the Bible where it says Husbands love your wives as Christ does the church, then asked my husband, “do you think you are doing this”? My husband said “YES”. Then he asked him point blank, “HOW ARE YOU DOING THIS IF YOU ARE COMMITTING ADULTERY”? mY husband then proceeded to almost walk out of the session…but did not. He asked me too. I said YES. I have tried so hard to love my husband, and be a Godly wife, but my heart is so broken, I do not know if it can be un-hardened at this point, not without a conversion of my husband’s heart and actions.

Just wanted to share and ask have any of you fellow Catholics ever felt this way?

It should not be like this if you ask me. But there is no help in our church!

Oh p.s. We have no deacons I was told and no married couples who we can meet with even. I e-mailed one couple who leads a lot of things, and they never even got back to me… whereas, I e-mailed a pastor from a local church whom we met with, and he e-mailed me back the very next day and said he’s happy to meet with me or us anytime.

 

[captainmike]

your criticism may be valid, but what you need most of all are prayer and the mass. if you abandon the sacraments of the church for a “bible” church, you will be making your situation worse.

 

[JReducation]

My friend, you have several things going on in one life, yours. Let’s sort through them so that we can understand them. I’ll begin with the comfort that you’re finding from Protestant Pastors.

There is a pro and a con to that comfort. The pro is that the pastor is doing a very good thing using the Scriptures to help you and your husband. We must always acknowledge good when we see it. I hope that was a helpful session.

The con is that you’re viewing the availability of the Protestant pastor as superior to that of our Catholic priests. Albeit, the every Catholic deacon and priest who is assigned to a parish should be available to the faithful of that parish, it is also true that there are not enough priests to assign to parishes. About 40% of our Catholic priests are consecrated religious. Priests who are religious do not always work in parishes. Their primary ministry is the ministry of their religious order, which is not always parishes. As a result, there is a shortage of parish priests. We’re not always going to find a priest available unless it’s a sick call. Protestant ministers have much smaller congregations than the average Catholic parish priest. Be careful not to place expectations on the parish priest that he cannot fulfill, because of sheer numbers.

Now let’s look at your need for marriage counseling. Often, a deacon, priest, or religious brother will tread very gently in this area, because it can be a very complex area. Marital issues require spiritual guidance and systems work. Most seminarians study pastoral counseling or spiritual theology. They never study marital and family systems. That is really a social science, not a pastoral science. Therefore, even your average Protestant minister who has attended seminary is not a qualified professional marriage counselor, unless he went to school for that.

The difference is that the Catholic clergy and religious are often too fearful of making a mistake. This fear often paralyzes them. That’s unfortunate. Sometimes, just listening is a big help. If you can listen, you can usually make some common sense observation or give some common sense feedback.

I wish I had a magic wand that would make this excessive caution go away, but I cannot. However, I can suggest that you contact Catholic Charities or the local chancery. They have ministries for families. This includes counseling and other assistance.

Finally, let’s talk about the final point here and probably the most important point. Leaving the Catholic Church because the local parish or parishes are not offering the pastoral services that one needs is an error at many levels.

First, the primary mission of the Church is to save souls through the sacraments. Only two sacraments can be found in the Protestant ecclesial communities, baptism and marriage (marriage in many Protestant ecclesial communities is valid, but not a sacrament). That’s a story for another day. You will not find the Eucharist and absolution for your sins in any ecclesial community that has broken from the Apostolic Succession. You may find help in saving your marriage, but not as much help in saving your soul.

Second, grace is present in the Protestant communities in a very incomplete way, because they do not have the fullness of Truth and the full sacramental system. Scripture is good and necessary. It is the Word of God. But it alone is not enough. The scripture that the pastor used to help you he received from the Catholic Church who compiled it and preserved it for 2,000 years. There is nothing in the Protestant community that is not available in the Catholic community.

My final conclusion find the services that you need through your diocese, if they are not available through your parish. If there is a religious community of men in your area, try to speak to one of them. They often have more time than the parish priest. Call and ask if you can meet one of them for spiritual direction.

You will be in my prayers tomorrow at mass.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Corinne3]

Hi B*rother: thank you so much for writing. I am honored you are writing me.

“First, the primary mission of the Church is to save souls through the sacraments”.*

I have come to believe Jesus Christ is the only thing/one that can save souls. “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one cometh unto the Father except through me”. John 14:6.

Can you please explain what you say above? I am very confused.

 

[Corinne3]

your criticism may be valid, but what you need most of all are prayer and the mass. if you abandon the sacraments of the church for a “bible” church, you will be making your situation worse.

WHY?

 

[ljubim]

WHY?

Abandoning the Church, the safety net Christ gave you, will put you in a very bad position with God. No matter how bad your life is right now, it will be worse after you’ve given up all the grace Our Lord has given to you in the sacraments. And because the Eucharist is Christ Himself, you would be literally walking out on Him. You cannot expect your problems to be solved when you walk away from God. Perhaps there’d be a little honeymoon of good feelings after you leave, for the novelty and because you think you’re doing the right thing, but in all actuality the devil wants you away from God’s saving grace, because without it you’re easy prey, for a lot more problems, both in this life and the next.

Of course the pastor is happy to see you, sweetie. They would love to boast about luring a Catholic out of the Church. They want more numbers in the seats, more money in the pockets. Don’t think for a minute that your priest doesn’t care about, or know about, marriage. They’ve been intensely involved with hundreds of married couples, they’ve heard thousands of confessions. They know more about marriage than you do, because they know the details about hundreds of marriages, not just one.

I will pray for you :hug1: I cannot even imagine what this is like. But the fact is, dealing with your marriage/annulment is one huge problem, but leaving the Church, turning your back on Christ, is an even bigger one.

 

[JReducation]

Hi B*rother: thank you so much for writing. I am honored you are writing me.

“First, the primary mission of the Church is to save souls through the sacraments”.*

I have come to believe Jesus Christ is the only thing/one that can save souls. “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one cometh unto the Father except through me”. John 14:6.

Can you please explain what you say above? I am very confused.

I’d be happy to explain this. Jesus is the way. But Jesus chose to make his presence in our lives through the sacraments. Five of the sacraments can only be administered by validly ordained men: deacons, priests, and bishops.

Our relationship with Christ has two sides. It is spiritual, which can be found in any faith. But there is also a sacramental relationship, which can only be found in those Churches that have Apostolic Succession. Apostolic Succession means that a Church has broken the line of succession back to the Apostles. Therefore, those Churches have transmitted the faith, the power of Christ and the sanctifying grace that Christ gives ony through the sacraments, from the Apostles to this day. There are only to Christian families that have an uninterrupted line of succession back to the Apostles and therefore back to Christ himself: Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. The Protestants do not have that line of succession. Their founders were unable to transmit that succession, because they were not ordained bishops. Only a bishop can transmit the line.

Without the line of succession, you cannot transmit the power to celebrate sacraments. Without the sacraments, you do not have access to sanctifying grace, which Christ chose to give only through the sacraments and through no other way.

We see one of many examples of this in scripture when he says to the Apostles, “Whose sins you shall forgive shall be forgiven.” The Apostles were bishops. They were given the power to forgive sins. No one else was given that power. They handed down the power to the priests and other bishops and so it continues to this day in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Even though we can receive forgiveness by being sorry, asking for forgiveness and doing penance, we cannot receive the necessary grace to be holy without the sacrament. That comes only with the words of the priest, “I forgive you.”

Another example of the transmission of power from Christ to his Apostles is seen in the Eucharistic narratives in the bible. We see at the Last Supper where Christ literally changes bread and wine into his body and blood. It was not a symbol. It was a literal change. We see it again in the story of the journey to Emaus, when the disciples who are traveling recognize him only when they celebrate Eucharist. What we get from that story is that they are not Apostles. Therefore they did not have the power to confect the change in the bread and wine. But Jesus does it and it is in the bread and wine, now changed into his body and blood that they recognized him, not in his physical appearance to them. Finally, Paul mentions it twice. He says to us,“I have handed down to you what I have received.” He goes on to speak about the bread and wine that are the body and blood of Christ. Paul alludes to having received it from someone. He received it from the Apostles to whom Jesus had sent him when he converted him. In turn, Paul hands it down to the next generation of ordained men.

Finally, remember what the term “ordained” means. It is an ancient word meaning “sent”. These men were sent by Christ, through the Apostles. They were sent to consecrate the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. They were sent to preach the Gospel. They were sent to forgive sins.

The Protestant communities do not have these men. Their ministers are not sent (ordained) by a valid successor of the Apostles. Only an Apostles can send, because only the Apostles were sent by Christ. Only they can hand down what Christ handed down to them and so forth. It’s a long line to this day.

You will not find that line in the Protestant community. You will find very holy people. You will find prayer, preaching, scripture, baptism, charity and faith in Jesus Christ. But you will not find an Apostle. Therefore, you will not find the true body and blood of Christ as we have it in the mass. You will not find absolution for your sins as we have it in confession. Finally, you will not find grace that makes you holy as you find in the sacraments.

In other words, salvation in the Protestant community is highly dependent on faithfully observing the few things that are available to you: scripture and prayer. Scripture and prayer are good. Do not get me wrong. But sanctifying grace or put another way, a share in the Divine Life, is better. You can only get that through the sacraments.

Yes, Christ is the way But in scripture you learn about Christ. In prayer your speak to Christ. In the sacraments you receive Christ’s life from Christ himself.

That’s the major difference and a rather important one. Take it from a convert.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[MichaelR]

I can’t really add anything useful to that very detailed post that was kindly left for you above. The only thing I would say is you have to listen to your heart, and I mean truly listen…if someone leaves the Catholic Church, surely it should be for the right reason? If your heart is truly with the Catholic faith, as it seems to be, then moving away from it for instant access to different facilities can’t be good for you. That sounds more like your head over thinking things and searching for instant solutions rather than your heart and soul knowing where it belongs. And in the long run, a decision made for the wrong reason now could make an already emotionally difficult situation even worse for you, and could leave you feeling even more alone.

I understand you’re going through something horrible, and I have already given you my thoughts in another thread directly about the situation at hand, so I won’t repeat them here again. But doing something so big in search of an instant solution won’t help. They may seem to have more facilities tangibly available to you now, but they’re still not going to have an instant answer for you. At the end of the day, what you do about your marriage is your decision…comfort, support and religious guidance of course are all good at the moment, but when it all comes down to it, only you will be able to make those decisions about your marriage…no one else can make them for you. That’s why I offered the kind of advice I did in the other thread.

I know that’s not much help, but it’s how I see it. I really do hope you start to feel better soon, whatever you decide, no one deserves to be treated that way by someone they love and claims to love them.

 

[rev_kevin]

With all my marital issues lately, I’ve literally gotten very little, minimal help from my parish, or others, so I feel, honestly like leaving to go to a non-denominational church, where there is a prayer group, bible study, the pastor is available for counseling, etc. and I feel the spirit there much more. I am really torn, as I will always be a Catholic of course. I feel no wonder so many are leaving the church, there is so much lacking, in the way of spirit led marriage stuff, and other things, for teens, etc. I am confused.

I, and we have met with our Priests, but all they say is basically “aw that’s horrible, and you have every reason for an annulment”…that’s it. They also said, they have had much more serious issues than ours on their hands…etc… They didn’t even open their Bibles once :shrug:and show us what the Lord says, like the other pastor did, when husband and I met with him. This pastor blatently opened up his Bible, and pointed Romans 1 out to my husband, showing him the path to destruction he was on in his infidelity. He also opened up the Bible where it says Husbands love your wives as Christ does the church, then asked my husband, “do you think you are doing this”? My husband said “YES”. Then he asked him point blank, “HOW ARE YOU DOING THIS IF YOU ARE COMMITTING ADULTERY”? mY husband then proceeded to almost walk out of the session…but did not. He asked me too. I said YES. I have tried so hard to love my husband, and be a Godly wife, but my heart is so broken, I do not know if it can be un-hardened at this point, not without a conversion of my husband’s heart and actions.

Just wanted to share and ask have any of you fellow Catholics ever felt this way?

It should not be like this if you ask me. But there is no help in our church!

Oh p.s. We have no deacons I was told and no married couples who we can meet with even. I e-mailed one couple who leads a lot of things, and they never even got back to me… whereas, I e-mailed a pastor from a local church whom we met with, and he e-mailed me back the very next day and said he’s happy to meet with me or us anytime.

I’m not saying leave your parish. If you find no help from your parish then I say by all means go to a non-denomination for help. They will not refuse you because you are Catholic. They are there to help all men. You need help and want help so go to someone who can and will help you.

 

[Bluegoat]

Of course the pastor is happy to see you, sweetie. They would love to boast about luring a Catholic out of the Church. They want more numbers in the seats, more money in the pockets.

This is an unfair and uncharitable comment.

 

[gretahope]

Abandoning the Church, the safety net Christ gave you, will put you in a very bad position with God. No matter how bad your life is right now, it will be worse after you’ve given up all the grace Our Lord has given to you in the sacraments. And because the Eucharist is Christ Himself, you would be literally walking out on Him. You cannot expect your problems to be solved when you walk away from God. Perhaps there’d be a little honeymoon of good feelings after you leave, for the novelty and because you think you’re doing the right thing, but in all actuality the devil wants you away from God’s saving grace, because without it you’re easy prey, for a lot more problems, both in this life and the next.

Of course the pastor is happy to see you, sweetie. They would love to boast about luring a Catholic out of the Church. They want more numbers in the seats, more money in the pockets. Don’t think for a minute that your priest doesn’t care about, or know about, marriage. They’ve been intensely involved with hundreds of married couples, they’ve heard thousands of confessions. They know more about marriage than you do, because they know the details about hundreds of marriages, not just one.

I will pray for you :hug1: I cannot even imagine what this is like. But the fact is, dealing with your marriage/annulment is one huge problem, but leaving the Church, turning your back on Christ, is an even bigger one.

I am a convert to the Catholic church. I’m wondering how you can know that all Protestant pastors want to lure Catholics away, want money, and to fill their pews? I know for a fact that is not true for all. There are many, many truly wonderful, kind, faithful pastors out there who want to help people. IMO, this is a haughty viewpoint.

I have a very kind priest and our Educ. director is welcoming and loving. We ALL came from Protestant backgrounds in my RCIA class, and all had a pretty good foundation in the scriptures and nurture along the way, even if it wasn’t Catholic. I

 

[yellowbird]

I am a convert to the Catholic church. I’m wondering how you can know that all Protestant pastors want to lure Catholics away, want money, and to fill their pews? I know for a fact that is not true for all. There are many, many truly wonderful, kind, faithful pastors out there who want to help people. IMO, this is a haughty viewpoint.

I

I agree.

To the OP ~ I don’t have good advice to offer… I just wanted to say that I’m very sorry you are hurting and I will ask God to put the right people in your life who can help you. Here is a big :console: and my hope that things get better for you. Hang in there.

 

[kmuestwin]

I’m going to pray a rosary for you in the hope that things start getting better. I’m sorry that you are having so much trouble finding the help and advice you need.

 

[Cable]

I’m not saying leave your parish. If you find no help from your parish then I say by all means go to a non-denomination for help. They will not refuse you because you are Catholic. They are there to help all men. You need help and want help so go to someone who can and will help you.

Oh they’ll help you alright.

Corinne3: You’re a Catholic whose heart is battling. This marital discord you describe sounds agonizing and stressful. You’re at a vulnerable time in your spirituality and are therefore, a target for a “helpful” religious community, who would capitalize on this by simultaneously counseling you and attempting to lure you away from your Catholic faith.

It’s great you’re asking questions. There are many fellow Catholics here who can provide accurate Catholic answers. I hope you will see the Truth in them.

This is a time to hold fast to your faith. I implore you, please stay with the apostolic Church throughout this ordeal. If anything, you need to pray and receive the sacraments more now, not less.

Help for Catholic Marriages: consider the Retrouvaille web site and the Worldwide Marriage Encounter Group www.wwme.org to find a local contact person. And/or consider looking for a Catholic marriage counselor in your area. If your husband won’t go with you to anything, consider going on retreat alone, if you can arrange it.

I’m adding you to the prayer intentions in my group so others can join me in praying for you and your situation.

 

[Corinne3]

Thank you. I assure you all I will never leave my Catholic Faith ever, I am just so disappointed with the lack of help I have been offered in all my marital struggles, that is all. I have witnessed first hand, one pastor and one friend who told me “Satan is at work in the Catholic Church” (former Catholics)…and of course, I do not believe them. Satan can be at work anywhere I suppose though.

I still disagree with the Brother above who thinks the sacraments “save souls” when it is Jesus. This I do know. I believe the Sacraments are grace and gifts from the Lord, but only Jesus Christ saves us. Praise Him.

I love the Eucharist! it is last time I was at Mass, strength and healing…just what I need.

Praise Him. Jesus is my Rock, and My Salvation ultimately, not “sacraments” not any “Church” so to speak. This is what I think anyway.

 

[ljubim]

Thank you. I assure you all I will never leave my Catholic Faith ever, I am just so disappointed with the lack of help I have been offered in all my marital struggles, that is all. I have witnessed first hand, one pastor and one friend who told me “Satan is at work in the Catholic Church” (former Catholics)…and of course, I do not believe them. Satan can be at work anywhere I suppose though.

I still disagree with the Brother above who thinks the sacraments “save souls” when it is Jesus. This I do know. I believe the Sacraments are grace and gifts from the Lord, but only Jesus Christ saves us. Praise Him.

I love the Eucharist! it is last time I was at Mass, strength and healing…just what I need.

Praise Him. Jesus is my Rock, and My Salvation ultimately, not “sacraments” not any “Church” so to speak. This is what I think anyway.

But Christ works through the Sacraments. If He’s gonna save you, it’s by giving you grace through the sacraments. Remember, one sacrament IS Him. And remember that the Church is the “bride of Christ.” He’s not going to let make this irrelevant in His relationship with you.

It’s kinda contradictory to say that you love the Eucharist and then dis the sacraments.

God puts us through a lot of trials in our lives. And there aren’t any instant answers, or instant solutions. A reflection I read once said that we spend so much time and effort and prayers asking God to remove our crosses, when those are the things He’s given us to bring us closer to Him. I’m not saying to downplay or ignore your situation, just to calmly recognize that God’s there for you and He’ll give you the grace to make it through if you let Him.

A good example comes from exorcists, who before they go into spiritual battle, have no misconceptions as the the weapons that they need. They need to be pure and holy, and so will confess frequently, receive the Eucharist frequently, and use all kinds of sacramentals such as holy water and blessed medals to help receive much grace from God. One time when I went to pray in front of an abortion clinic I went to confession soon beforehand, received the Eucharist that morning and fasted a bit. These kinds of things arm you with grace and help to make you pure and holy, which almost make your prayers stronger. The abortion clinic ended up shutting down soon after we went… it is wise not to underestimate the power of the sacraments.

Could many of the martyrs endured such excruciating tortures, while smiling, or making some witty remark, without having such grace from the sacraments? God takes care of His own, make yourself one of them, and meet Him as often as possible in the sacraments.

 

[gamewell45]

Of course the pastor is happy to see you, sweetie. They would love to boast about luring a Catholic out of the Church. They want more numbers in the seats, more money in the pockets.

That’s not true and extremely mean-spirited and uncharitable on your part.

I’ve never heard of any Priest in my church or any church for that matter “boasting” about luring anyone, not just a Catholic out of their church or house of worship. And its not about money or numbers either.

 

[LilyM]

Thank you. I assure you all I will never leave my Catholic Faith ever, I am just so disappointed with the lack of help I have been offered in all my marital struggles, that is all. I have witnessed first hand, one pastor and one friend who told me “Satan is at work in the Catholic Church” (former Catholics)…and of course, I do not believe them. Satan can be at work anywhere I suppose though.

I still disagree with the Brother above who thinks the sacraments “save souls” when it is Jesus. This I do know. I believe the Sacraments are grace and gifts from the Lord, but only Jesus Christ saves us. Praise Him.

I love the Eucharist! it is last time I was at Mass, strength and healing…just what I need.

Praise Him. Jesus is my Rock, and My Salvation ultimately, not “sacraments” not any “Church” so to speak. This is what I think anyway.

Why did you put sacraments in inverted commas? Do you believe they are not real? Or not instituted by Christ? Do you believe they don’t have real spiritual power (more so than any amount of counselling from priest or pastor can give)?

As much as you downplay the sacraments - confession for one absolutely saves souls, for it is the means by which God grants us the grace of absolution of mortal sin, without which we can’t hope for heaven.

Second - why did Christ institute the sacraments if we can take 'em or leave 'em? Does He do things that are redundant or unimportant?

They aren’t optional or just a sideshow of our spiritual life, they are its bedrock. They are where God reaches down and really, usually in a physical and tangible way, touches us.

What do you think He meant when He taught us baptism by HIMSELF being baptised? Or taught us that unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood we will not have life within us? That we can take or leave these things? That they are of secondary importance? Certainly not!

Thirdly - I don’t knock your desire to seek spiritual comfort, and it’s possible that your priest has been too dismissive. However - God helps those who help themselves. Neither priest nor pastor are necessarily professional marriage counsellors, so they might not be the best option.

You might be better off seeking a professional (one who is firmly rooted in Catholic Christian thought as well) for help.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Thank you. I assure you all I will never leave my Catholic Faith ever, I am just so disappointed with the lack of help I have been offered in all my marital struggles, that is all. I have witnessed first hand, one pastor and one friend who told me “Satan is at work in the Catholic Church” (former Catholics)…and of course, I do not believe them. Satan can be at work anywhere I suppose though.

I still disagree with the Brother above who thinks the sacraments “save souls” when it is Jesus. This I do know. I believe the Sacraments are grace and gifts from the Lord, but only Jesus Christ saves us. Praise Him.

I love the Eucharist! it is last time I was at Mass, strength and healing…just what I need.

Praise Him. Jesus is my Rock, and My Salvation ultimately, not “sacraments” not any “Church” so to speak. This is what I think anyway.

hello Corinne.

my heart goes out to you. i know exactly what you are going through. i have been there myself. the pain was almost umberable. hang in there. cry out to the Lord. ask for help in what to do. tell Him His will be done. our Lord says, if thy brother is happy be happy wiht him, if thy brother is crying, cry with him. so, i cry with you.

check all the CC around you, ask for a priest who can speak with you. a lot of times i do that when i am in trouble. there is always a priest in somewhere who is willing to help.
unfortunately, we live in a world in which the lack of care for each other has affect even the priesthood. dont get discourage, the Lord hears you.

i think what brother is trying to say is that you are blessed for being in our Lord’s Church. by being in His Church, you are in obedience to our Lord. dont quit His Church because you are in a desperate situation. ask God to help you love your husband no matter what. be kind and gentle to your husband even if he is not. be Christ like to him.
these are the things your husband will remember you for it.

Jesus found one Church and the Church is the CC. love the Church even when it seems impossible, by loving the Catholic Church, you are loving Christ Himself. take time by yourself to converse with God about your sufferings. try also be silent before our Lord.

peace of our Lord be with you.

 

[wisdomseeker]

That’s not true and extremely mean-spirited and uncharitable on your part.

I’ve never heard of any Priest in my church or any church for that matter “boasting” about luring anyone, not just a Catholic out of their church or house of worship. And its not about money or numbers either.

i think it is better not bring arguments into this thread. this girl needs our help and not our dispute.

i am not go to get into this with you, but i know exactly what the poster is talking about. i have been there myself.