Have Muslims misinterpreted much of their quran or

[Jay53]

I’ve been trying to get one point across in three or four separate posts, but I keep being misunderstood by our Muslim friends. Ultimately the whole religion of Islam comes down to Muhammed’s word alone. When I asked why Muhammed was believed to be credible, that answer was that he’s from God. When I asked how someone can be sure of this, the answer was basically that he seemed to be a credible person. I don’t want to flog a dead horse here, but I still don’t have an answer as to why Muhammed should be believed. He may have had 144,000 people at his last sermon, but so what? Lot’s of leaders have had large followings.

Don’t hold your breath here! I’ve been asking this same question for months - I even started a thread on it a while back. The basic (non-circular) answer I got was that he (Muhammad) was trustworthy in business - that’s why they believe him. So I guess if another trustworthy businessman comes along claiming to have revelations from God, we should believe him - even if they contradict the Quran.

 

[spn82756]

Don’t hold your breath here! I’ve been asking this same question for months - I even started a thread on it a while back. The basic (non-circular) answer I got was that he (Muhammad) was trustworthy in business - that’s why they believe him. So I guess if another trustworthy businessman comes along claiming to have revelations from God, we should believe him - even if they contradict the Quran.

AHHHHHHHH…so it’s a pagan type of relationship. Find a nice guy/girl and you can believe in him/her. That makes things much easier to explain!

 

[PadraigPearce]

A charitable remark or not, but does not anyone else notice a similarity between the supposed Prophet of Muhammad and that of Joseph Smith?

The similarities between the two are striking. A charismatic leader. A new revelation supposedly given by an angel that supersedes all previous revelation. Changes in the verses the prophet was originally given, in some cases contradicting what was originally given. The list just goes on and on.

 

[KathleenGee]

The movement of the Holy Spirit leads us up the holy Mountain of the Lord…

When the devil has a hand in things, he takes you on a merry go round…you go round and round…and i have seen plenty of it the past two days with some prophet people…

Hamba and Planten, have you every taken any girlfriends on a merry go round? It is fun.

But the devil taking you round and round is not. The devil is bad and he leads you no where except you no where…

Merry Christmas to the Muslims

 

[KathleenGee]

spn8###…

It does get dizzy…thanks…and God bless and for all the good and heartfelt posts…they were all sincere…

Merry Christmas!

 

[spn82756]

spn8###…

It does get dizzy…thanks…and God bless and for all the good and heartfelt posts…they were all sincere…

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[jakasaki]

Kindly read read again what I wrote… I said that even the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would have minor differences of opinion among themselves.

During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there was no such thing as Sunni and Shia sects in Islam.

You are correct Hamba - "during the time of mohamad there was **NO **such thing as Sunni and Shia - but as soon as the man died all hell broke loose with the muslims.

Muslim on muslim wars ~

The calif Abu believers & followers and the calif Ali believers & followers - which are now the Sunni islam and the Shia islam.

I’m sure you have studied your islamic history of what happened

 

[wwolverine]

Many Muslims do not know the truth of the crucifixion…the sacrifice Christ made to save us from sin and to destroy the power of death and sin over us.

Thus, the sign of the Cross is not a battle sign for the Crusades, but the sign of tremendous love through the ultimate sacrifice of His death for His new life in us.

Kathleen,

You remember when Jesus was tempted thrice by satan? And also when he drove another evil spirit in the pigs? well Satan knew very well who Jesus was and hence was on a lookout for someone or something to capture and hence deny who Jesus was. This denial was the only way, satan could try to win some souls, which otherwise were lost to him. and hence he must have enticed mohammed, who in turn established islam a religion which denies the true facts of Jesus.

 

[PA650]

Help me here. I came up with several different googles for dzien dobry. From good morning to what appeared to be a Polish(?) female performer.

I need to be enlightened!!!

Sadly, I’m not fluent in Polish, but the word dzień dobry is typically used as a greeting, such as hello or good morning. I primarily use the word to express hello. Hope my explanation helps.

The similarities between the two are striking. A charismatic leader. A new revelation supposedly given by an angel that supersedes all previous revelation. Changes in the verses the prophet was originally given, in some cases contradicting what was originally given. The list just goes on and on.

It is quite a similarity.

 

[dzheremi]

Dzien dobry is a cognate with the same across all Slavic languages. In Russian, we say it the other way around: “dobry den’” (transliterated because my language bar isn’t working). It means “good day” (literally) or “hello”.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

A charitable remark or not, but does not anyone else notice a similarity between the supposed Prophet of Muhammad and that of Joseph Smith?

Mani, the founder of the early heresy of Manichaeanism, is also similar. He too claimed to be the paraclete from John’s gospel, and claimed to have received a revelation from an angel of God, and many other similarities.

 

[planten]

I’ve been trying to get one point across in three or four separate posts, but I keep being misunderstood by our Muslim friends. Ultimately the whole religion of Islam comes down to Muhammed’s word alone. When I asked why Muhammed was believed to be credible, that answer was that he’s from God. When I asked how someone can be sure of this, the answer was basically that he seemed to be a credible person. I don’t want to flog a dead horse here, but I still don’t have an answer as to why Muhammed should be believed. He may have had 144,000 people at his last sermon, but so what? Lot’s of leaders have had large followings.

Thanks for complaining. WE still cannot understand your point. Jesus did not have any angel walking with him telling every that he was God. Nobody saw anything unusual with Jesus. It was his words of mouth, good advisory teachings, lectures. There was no voice from the sky (except pehaps once) that jesus was the son of God, or he was God.

The christians allow that angels visit their people, Mary, Joseph the carpentar etc. But when it comes to Muhammad, they say “No.” Angel cannot come to Muhammad. There is nothing special with Jesus which was not with Muhammad. The story of the success of Muhammad is very clear. There is nothing with Christians except some accusations against Muhammad.

We see many prophets (messengers) had come to the children of Israel. Perhaps the christians do not believe that any came there. If messengers can come to the children of Israel then why messenger cannot come to Arabs? or to other nations??

On the side of the Christians is a total denial of grant of any Grace to Muhammad. On the side of the muslims is a total denial of the divinity of Jesus and a total denial of his death on the cross. When Jesus did not die on the cross then there was no resurrection.

In the light of the above (opposing) beliefs, how can the two religions come to any common ground or useful dialogue?? Every one will stick to their guns i.e. their beliefs.

 

[KathleenGee]

Planten,

Well…there are angels out there…for sure…but there are pretender ones…they can look very beautiful and nice but are really the evil …

You know at Lourdes, Satan appeared as Mary but people then realized it was not Mary.

The Lord wants us all to love one another and be of one heart and mind.

It is good Muslims are here to share and learn…(But not to tell us the crucifixion never happened…bad)…

But a true angel always conforms to the Holy Bible and helps us to be a family together…that is what Jesus was about…Bethelehem means bread…our basic food…the angel told the shepherds to specifically look for a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in an animal feeder…who was to become our Living Bread…

That thought is so beautiful, but sad because the Baby some day had to grow up and suffer a terrible death…but out of love for us…the ultimate sacrifice…so the Baby could come to us through Bread and live within us with His eternal life. His presence, so pure…and innocent as a new born baby’s…always the same…the Lord.

So any angel that comes around, wants to beat you up like that one did to Muhammed…well, we don’t trust him. Good angels don’t beat up people and tell you to do things the other angels did not want you to do.

But the Lord tells us to trust His humanity in you. And He has given us all our guardian angels from the same house…they leave the same house and go to the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims and all the people of the world…but the bad angels …well, they want people to make bombs and blow you up.

Ask the Lord for guidance and He is always there and I am praying for everybody this Christmas who comes on these Catholic Answers club. After all, you don’t have to be Catholic to be in this club…well, maybe in the Church it is different, but here you are in the Catholic Club. Merry Christmas!

 

[planten]

Planten,

Well…there are angels out there…for sure…but there are pretender ones…they can look very beautiful and nice but are really the evil …

You know at Lourdes, Satan appeared as Mary but people then realized it was not Mary.

The Lord wants us all to love one another and be of one heart and mind.

It is good Muslims are here to share and learn…(But not to tell us the crucifixion never happened…bad)…

But a true angel always conforms to the Holy Bible and helps us to be a family together…that is what Jesus was about…Bethelehem means bread…our basic food…the angel told the shepherds to specifically look for a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in an animal feeder…who was to become our Living Bread…

That thought is so beautiful, but sad because the Baby some day had to grow up and suffer a terrible death…but out of love for us…the ultimate sacrifice…so the Baby could come to us through Bread and live within us with His eternal life. His presence, so pure…and innocent as a new born baby’s…always the same…the Lord.

So any angel that comes around, wants to beat you up like that one did to Muhammed…well, we don’t trust him. Good angels don’t beat up people and tell you to do things the other angels did not want you to do.

But the Lord tells us to trust His humanity in you. And He has given us all our guardian angels from the same house…they leave the same house and go to the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims and all the people of the world…but the bad angels …well, they want people to make bombs and blow you up.

Ask the Lord for guidance and He is always there and I am praying for everybody this Christmas who comes on these Catholic Answers club. After all, you don’t have to be Catholic to be in this club…well, maybe in the Church it is different, but here you are in the Catholic Club. Merry Christmas!

KathleenGee, Thanks for the prayers. If you have a true God and your prayers are true then you will get a reply to your prayers from your God and your prayers will be accepted.

I also wish you well specially at the good occasion of X-Mas. Merry X-Mas.

Please do not think that the angel gabriel beat up Muhammad. He told Muhammad to recite, to read. Muhammad said that he could not recite. So the angel pressed Muhammad at the chest. People have made up the stories from a simple event.

It is Muhammad who told all that to us. If the angel had beaten Muhammad then Muhammad would have told us that angel beat him. There is no such thing. That angel (Holy Spirit) who appeared to Muhammad was so big, it filled up the half sky.

I would request that you do not abuse that angel because you also believe in the Holy Spirit. If you nick name him then you will be denying and abusing the Holy Spirit. But it is up to you. Follow what you like.

 

[grace_singh]

There was no voice from the sky (except pehaps once) that jesus was the son of God, or he was God.

And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17)

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!” (Matthew 17:5)

these two events were at Jesus’ baptism, and transfiguration.

in addition, the angel Gabriel confirms Jesus’ Sonship, by virtue of the virgin birth, angels of course being God’s messengers.

The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)

Jesus also calls Himself the Son of God, or confirms this fact in verses such as Matthew 16:16-17, Matthew 26:63-64, and John 11:4.

 

[PA650]

Thanks for complaining. WE still cannot understand your point. Jesus did not have any angel walking with him telling every that he was God. Nobody saw anything unusual with Jesus. It was his words of mouth, good advisory teachings, lectures. There was no voice from the sky (except pehaps once) that jesus was the son of God, or he was God.

The christians allow that angels visit their people, Mary, Joseph the carpentar etc. But when it comes to Muhammad, they say “No.” Angel cannot come to Muhammad. There is nothing special with Jesus which was not with Muhammad. The story of the success of Muhammad is very clear. There is nothing with Christians except some accusations against Muhammad.

We see many prophets (messengers) had come to the children of Israel. Perhaps the christians do not believe that any came there. If messengers can come to the children of Israel then why messenger cannot come to Arabs? or to other nations??

On the side of the Christians is a total denial of grant of any Grace to Muhammad. On the side of the muslims is a total denial of the divinity of Jesus and a total denial of his death on the cross. When Jesus did not die on the cross then there was no resurrection.

In the light of the above (opposing) beliefs, how can the two religions come to any common ground or useful dialogue?? Every one will stick to their guns i.e. their beliefs.

Common ground is expressed in the following statement,

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#841
Although that’s the most I can concede regarding Islam. In the end, I truly hope Islam can live up to the statement of being a “Religion of Peace” and not violate the rights and dignity of all life on Earth granted by our Creator.

 

[spn82756]

There was no voice from the sky (except pehaps once) that jesus was the son of God, or he was God.

Not true. As posted later. But this is an interesting statement. If God ONLY says it once…then it just might not be true???

 

[planten]

Common ground is expressed in the following statement,

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#841
Although that’s the most I can concede regarding Islam. In the end, I truly hope Islam can live up to the statement of being a “Religion of Peace” and not violate the rights and dignity of all life on Earth granted by our Creator.

PA650, Thanks for the good post. I agree with you and I say Ameen. The present day Muslims have much to learn from other people. It is all there in their own book. But they have lost touch with their religious teachings and resorted to violence, worldwide violence. So their book and other faith matters have no value.

They have to behave and support the common human values. If any one is inhuman then he is not a Muslim, or not a good Muslim. The best is the one who is morally at higher level. Without good morale there is nothing,no relgion, no faith.

Some Muslim religious leaders highjacked the true muslim faith. They gave wrong lessons to the poor uninformed Muslims since 1880 A.D. If any one intervened, they called them non-Muslims (Kaafirs to be exact.) So they were misled and now they are quite far away from the real truth of Islam. Love is the answer.Even in the face of sufferings, the Muslims all over the world have to learn the lesson of Love and no Hatred. No hypocracy (hidden hatred.)

May Allah help those who can’t help themselves.

 

[KathleenGee]

Planten,

I was referring to a post from a Muslim who drew on a passage that the Angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammed, and began wrestling with him…fighting?..it sounded pretty rough.

It has taken me time to decide whether or not you were speaking the truth of common humanity and peace, because where I live there are those who are hurting my people with the veil of tolerance. They are now being exposed. But we have camps here who give the appearance they are getting ready for guerilla warfare in land. So I don’t trust many who say one thing and do another and sue and don’t want us to question.

For us, St. John the Baptist was the last of the line of prophets of Elija. He prepared the way for the Good News of Jesus Christ. Mary prepared the way by accepting Christ as her child and from her, He received His flesh and blood and for this as well we should remember Mary at the time of Eucharist for her gift of Jesus to us.

Public prophecy for us ended with Jesus. Jesus proclaims new life and triumph over death and sin and in that way He is prophet. We privately extend the role of prophet by living out Christ.

Public revelation ended with Jesus Christ in part because He reconciled us not only to God and gave us a new life in Him, but that He reconciled us to each other. And faith comes not to classes of people, but one to one…each one must work out their faith. And so you can go into a parish and every person in there is on a different level with different tolerances…and the more one grows in faith the more universal and connected that person is to a greater number of people.

Muhammed would be considered private revelation. Anything in Islam that promotes the one true God and the equality and value of the human being in relation to all other human beings, and that before God we are all equal and must care for one another as brothers and sisters, that is the spirit of true religion.

In Mormonism, whatever Joseph Smith says in context of the same in the paragraph above would be considered of true religion, but whatever goes against the public revelation of Jesus Christ, that aspect of within private revelation would not be considered.

 

[KathleenGee]

Planten,

About the Holy Spirit…do you mean the theophany of God coming over Jesus at His baptism?

The Holy Spirit is spirit and not confined by space or time as with the personhood of Father. Jesus, though God, was also carnate man, and His body before His resurrection was confined to the limits of space and time.

Planten, when I have time, but not on this thread…I will share with you a little of the history of prophets that came to the revelation of Jesus from the universal catechism. May be up to 4 or 5 paragraphs.

With the mention of different factions within Islam, that also reflects the nature of man, people all being on different levels or coming from different regions, and thus unity is always something so fragile and transient. May be here today and gone tomorrow…so much for the opinions of people.