Have we entered the Great Tribulation?

[Tom317]

Part of the tribulation is an apostasy from the faith, we see that in huge numbers today. Do you think we have entered the Great Tribulation? If yes, why? If not, why not?

 

[TOP]

Do you think the tribulation happens to everyone at the same time? Maybe it is a part of the personal revelation of Jesus Christ that believers go through. Just a thought. Tim

 

[Tom317]

Do you think the tribulation happens to everyone at the same time? Maybe it is a part of the personal revelation of Jesus Christ that believers go through. Just a thought. Tim

I think both are true. That each person goes through their own tribulation(s) and that there is one Great Tribulation that will be the beginning of the end of this era.

 

[JimO]

Part of the tribulation is an apostasy from the faith, we see that in huge numbers today. Do you think we have entered the Great Tribulation? If yes, why? If not, why not?

I don’t think we are. Most Christians aren’t truly persecuted and things certainly have been as bad or worse in the past. It seems that every generations thinks they are in the Last Days.

 

[TOP]

I can’t even imagine how horrible a Great Tribulation would be then. Tim

 

[Tom317]

I don’t think we are. Most Christians aren’t truly persecuted and things certainly have been as bad or worse in the past. It seems that every generations thinks they are in the Last Days.

Very true, except at least 90% of Christendom is in apostasy right now, not sure that ever happened before.

 

[JimO]

I can’t even imagine how horrible a Great Tribulation would then. Tim

I bet things were pretty rough in Europe during the Plague, or when there were anti-popes claiming the chair. Or during the time of the Reformation. Even during WWII with the concentration camps and Hitler on the verge of conquering Europe. Yes, I think it will be much worse than we in this prosperous nation can even imagine.

 

[Tom317]

I bet things were pretty rough in Europe during the Plague, or when there were anti-popes claiming the chair. Or during the time of the Reformation. Even during WWII with the concentration camps and Hitler on the verge of conquering Europe. Yes, I think it will be much worse than we in this prosperous nation can even imagine.

Again, those are all very good points and stress how bad it was during those times. However, even during those times there is no evidence that Christians left the true faith in mass numbers…today for the first time that is happening.

 

[JimO]

Again, those are all very good points and stress how bad it was during those times. However, even during those times there is no evidence that Christians left the true faith in mass numbers…today for the first time that is happening.

The Reformation saw a mass exodus that, on a percentage basis, has been unprecidented. And, keep in mind that those people left willfully, whereas many people today are merely complacent and apathetic. I hope Jesus comes back tomorrow, but objectively, I really don’t see it. We might be close, but I don’t think we’re in it.

 

[Tom317]

The Reformation saw a mass exodus that, on a percentage basis, has been unprecidented. And, keep in mind that those people left willfully, whereas many people today are merely complacent and apathetic. I hope Jesus comes back tomorrow, but objectively, I really don’t see it. We might be close, but I don’t think we’re in it.

Yes, they made personal choices to leave, yet the numbers then cannot compare to today. Truly, 90%+ of the so-called Christian world is no longer truly Christian. That simply never happened before, not during the reformation, not during any other time. I agree that it is not likely that Jesus’ return is emminent, yet I do believe we have entered the final period of time before His return…and by that I mean the final years/decades before His return.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Go back a little further to the 5th century and the Arian heresy. One of the popes even embraced Arian theology–but was (by the grace of the Holy Spirit) prevented from teaching it as Catholic doctrine. Most bishops, cardinals, priests and laity were thoroughly ‘Arian’ in sympathy. If you think our times are bad, I can only say, “it’s been worse”. And it will likely be ‘worse’ again sometime.

Human beings are ‘cyclic’; they have what C.S. Lewis referred to as “The Law of Undulation”. For every ‘peak’, there is a ‘trough’ (and vice versa). When we’re in a ‘peak’ we think we’ll always remain there, so when a ‘trough’ hits, we lash out thinking we’ve been betrayed and abandoned. When we’re in a ‘trough’ we are feeling betrayed, abandoned, and feel it will likewise never end, so when a ‘peak’ comes, we react either with overabundant euphoria or with disbelief. Then when the next ‘trough’ comes we either crash again into despair, or smugly congratulate ourselves that “I knew things looked too good, but now I’m back in reality”.

 

[Tom317]

I can’t even imagine how horrible a Great Tribulation would be then. Tim

We live during a time that is unique. Humanity now has the ability to make the horrible images in Revelation come true, through nuclear weapons, chemical and dirty bombs, etc…

We have the capacity to make WWII look like a warmup.

 

[Tom317]

Go back a little further to the 5th century and the Arian heresy. One of the popes even embraced Arian theology–but was (by the grace of the Holy Spirit) prevented from teaching it as Catholic doctrine. Most bishops, cardinals, priests and laity were thoroughly ‘Arian’ in sympathy. If you think our times are bad, I can only say, “it’s been worse”. And it will likely be ‘worse’ again sometime.

Human beings are ‘cyclic’; they have what C.S. Lewis referred to as “The Law of Undulation”. For every ‘peak’, there is a ‘trough’ (and vice versa). When we’re in a ‘peak’ we think we’ll always remain there, so when a ‘trough’ hits, we lash out thinking we’ve been betrayed and abandoned. When we’re in a ‘trough’ we are feeling betrayed, abandoned, and feel it will likewise never end, so when a ‘peak’ comes, we react either with overabundant euphoria or with disbelief. Then when the next ‘trough’ comes we either crash again into despair, or smugly congratulate ourselves that “I knew things looked too good, but now I’m back in reality”.

I don’t even in those days that 90%+ of all Christians were torn away.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

The Great Tribulation began with the fall of man and reached its apex with the crucifixion of Christ. It continues today and until Christ returns as our Lord said “In the world you have trouble (tribulation). But take courage, I have overcome the world.” John 16

CDL

 

[Tom317]

The Great Tribulation began with the fall of man and reached its apex with the crucifixion of Christ. It continues today and until Christ returns as our Lord said “In the world you have trouble (tribulation). But take courage, I have overcome the world.” John 16

CDL

Yes, I take courage that Christ has won the victory. However, there is a GReat Tribulation that the Church teaches the Church must go through and it precludes the second coming of Christ.

 

[JimO]

Yes, they made personal choices to leave, yet the numbers then cannot compare to today. Truly, 90%+ of the so-called Christian world is no longer truly Christian. That simply never happened before, not during the reformation, not during any other time. I agree that it is not likely that Jesus’ return is emminent, yet I do believe we have entered the final period of time before His return…and by that I mean the final years/decades before His return.

You may be right. And, if this belief motivates you to live your faith more fully, then it is a good thing. However, I know a lot of Protestants who are obsessed with the End Times to such a degree that it has become a distraction from their faith walk. I also know a number of Catholics who were pulled away from the Church due to a similar obsessive preoccupation with the strictly Protestant interpretation of “End Times” prophecies, such as the Rapture. They wanted to worship with like-minded people and left the Church. I even got into reading a lot about it myself around 12 years ago and am very familiar with all the so-called End Time prophecies. I also have concerns for people who are essentially counting on certain things happening over the next 10 years whose faith might be shaken if those things don’t happen. That’s why I respond carefully to these types of questions.

 

[Tom317]

You may be right. And, if this belief motivates you to live your faith more fully, then it is a good thing. However, I know a lot of Protestants who are obsessed with the End Times to such a degree that it has become a distraction from their faith walk. I also know a number of Catholics who were pulled away from the Church due to a similar obsessive preoccupation with the strictly Protestant interpretation of “End Times” prophecies, such as the Rapture. They wanted to worship with like-minded people and left the Church. I even got into reading a lot about it myself around 12 years ago and am very familiar with all the so-called End Time prophecies. I also have concerns for people who are essentially counting on certain things happening over the next 10 years whose faith might be shaken if those things don’t happen. That’s why I respond carefully to these types of questions.

I am with you completely on this and we are NOT to obsess about the end. However, I find it a bit disturbing that most Catholics hardly ever give it a thought because it is a critically important element of the faith…the second coming of Christ. The truth is, Jesus will return…we know this. Yet, the vast majority of Christians across the globe do not make that a personal call, a reason to get their acts together and follow the Lord NOW. It could be 10,000 years until Jesus returns, and He could return tonight. If we ignore the reality that He will return and that the Church must undergo a severe trial, then we give-up a source of evangelization that can help saved many souls.

It is easy to say things have always been tough…yet do we live in truly unique times–that is the question.

 

[Cardinalsong]

I am with you completely on this and we are NOT to obsess about the end. However, I find it a bit disturbing that most Catholics hardly ever give it a thought because it is a critically important element of the faith…the second coming of Christ. The truth is, Jesus will return…we know this. Yet, the vast majority of Christians across the globe do not make that a personal call, a reason to get their acts together and follow the Lord NOW. It could be 10,000 years until Jesus returns, and He could return tonight. If we ignore the reality that He will return and that the Church must undergo a severe trial, then we give-up a source of evangelization that can help saved many souls.

It is easy to say things have always been tough…yet do we live in truly unique times–that is the question.

I agree with you Tom that a lot of people don’t have their act together and need to follow the Lord now. But maybe they should get back to living for the Lord because their life on earth will end in only a few decades–if not sooner. The chances of dying before Christ’s return are much higher than His return during one’s lifetime.

 

[JimO]

Yet, the vast majority of Christians across the globe do not make that a personal call, a reason to get their acts together and follow the Lord NOW. It could be 10,000 years until Jesus returns, and He could return tonight.

The same could be said about our personal death (except for the 10,000 years, of course), which is likely more imminent for a given person than Christ’s return. That should be sufficient motivation too, but it isn’t. I bet if we knew when Christ was coming, the sense of urgency wouldn’t increase appreciably until the last minute. I honestly don’t understand why Christians aren’t more motivated, it’s a mystery.

 

[Tom317]

I agree with you Tom that a lot of people don’t have their act together and need to follow the Lord now. But maybe they should get back to living for the Lord because their life on earth will end in only a few decades–if not sooner. The chances of dying before Christ’s return are much higher than His return during one’s lifetime.

I agree. I will only add that it is also quite possible that Jesus will soon return and people who claim to love Christ should examine themselves everyday so that they are not caught unprepared. Plus, and again, my real question is: “are we living in times that are different then any other?” I say yes we are.