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Ignatius
Guest
The great apostacy happened 470 years ago and was called the protestant deformation.
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Tom317
Guest
I do not agree; however, if you are correct then we are indeed in the Great Tribulation and have been for 470 years.
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Fidelis
Guest
I’d be interested in hearing how, specifically, you arrived at this 90% number, since your concern seems to center upon this alarmingly high figure. Thanks.
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Jaypeeto3
Guest
I don’t know if 90% have fallen away from the faith, but Tom isn’t too far off IMHO.
If say even 40% of the people of this country were truly on fire for Christ, our American society would not be tolerating the things we tolerate and legalizing and promoting the things we legalize and promote. Things just wouldn’t be as they have become.
We live in a thoroughly sick and depraved nation.
I am only 46, and I remember a time when things weren’t nearly as morally bankrupt as they are now.
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
If say even 40% of the people of this country were truly on fire for Christ, our American society would not be tolerating the things we tolerate and legalizing and promoting the things we legalize and promote. Things just wouldn’t be as they have become.
We live in a thoroughly sick and depraved nation.
I am only 46, and I remember a time when things weren’t nearly as morally bankrupt as they are now.
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
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JimO
Guest
I was curious about this myself. I doubt that 9 out of 10 Christians are apostates. Maybe a lot are lukewarm, but not in apostasy. Also, although the early participants of the Reformation were considered heretics, modern Protestants are not considered so by the Church because many are truly ignorant of the teachings of the Church; therefore, one cannot claim that all non-Catholic Christians are in apostasy.
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Tom317
Guest
It is a guess, as I am sure you knew. 15-25% of U.S. Catholics actually practice the faith, the rest practice either seldomly or never and they hold their own set of beliefs. Europe is a dead continent. Canada has pockets of faithfulness, but is in the same state as the U.S. and likely worse. I can go on about the Catholic faith, yet across the globe I would guess that only about 10% actually follow, believe, and practice the full faith.
Protestants are still in protest…and there is a huge push for mega-Churches that have very little to due with the real faith.
Orthodox are closer to the true faith, but not quite.
I think 10% is being generous.
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JimO
Guest
I don’t agree myself, because I don’t see these as rising to the level of mass apostasy, but this is not a subject that I am particularly passionate about. Years ago, I asked myself “If I knew that Jesus would return in a year, would I change my behavior?”. At the time the answer was “yes” and I made some changes, so it was a good thing. Today, by God’s grace, the answer is “no” and so I don’t focus on the End Times at all. I hope He delays long enough to save as many as are willing, that’s all.Protestants are still in protest…and there is a huge push for mega-Churches that have very little to due with the real faith.
Orthodox are closer to the true faith, but not quite.
I think 10% is being generous.
Blessings
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Tom317
Guest
I think if we took a more thorough look at the matter you might change your mind about mass apostasy, yet I am glad you are at peace with the Lord. God Bless.
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Tom317
Guest
I agree and that sickness covers the globe to a depth that I truly believe has never been seen. I agree 100% that even if 40% were truly Christians this nation would be a far different place and so would the world.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
I think this is the driving force of missionaries. We dont know when Christ is coming back so we better try to save as many souls as possible.
I also feel that way. Although I am not the missionary type. I am too much of a premadonna.
I just speak the truth in love wherever–my gym, school, events, parties.I believe we could very be in the birthing pangs of the end times. But who know how long that lasts.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,I think if we took a more thorough look at the matter you might change your mind about mass apostasy, yet I am glad you are at peace with the Lord. God Bless.
Can I ask a stupid question? What does Apostacy mean?
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Church_Militant
Guest
Nope!
The New Testament speaks of persecution worse than those that the church went through early on.
Maybe the last days. Definitely not the Tribulation.
Pax tecum,
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Church_Militant
Guest
a·pos·ta·sy /əˈpɒstəsi/ Pronunciation Key -Hi,
Can I ask a stupid question? What does Apostacy mean?
Pronunciation[uh-pos-tuh-see] Pronunciation Key -
–noun, plural -sies.
a total desertion of or departure from one’s religion, principles, party, cause, etc.
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME apostasye (< AF) < LL apostasia < Gk: a standing away, withdrawing, equiv. to apóstas(is) (apo- apo- + sta- stand + -sis -sis) + -ia -ia]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
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Tom317
Guest
I agree, yet before the true horrors happen there is a huge apostasy from the faith, a pulling away from following Christ and I say that has been happening for at least 30 years.
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Tom317
Guest
Exactly, this period may last quite a long time…or it may racthet-up quickly. Part of the end days is the antichrist and we have not seen that yet, but I do believe we have seen an unprecedented pulling away from the true faith. Since the Bible is a “Catholic” book, its messages must “Catholic” in nature and the Catholic Church has been in a growing mess since the 60s, perhaps a little before the 60s. The Priest abuse scandal, the lower numbers of Priests, nuns and people following their call to all vocations…the reluctance on the part of almost all the clergy to truly speak the truth, the secularization of the Church across the globe, on-and-on…it is literally a massive pulling away all within the span of 40 years.Hi,
I think this is the driving force of missionaries. We dont know when Christ is coming back so we better try to save as many souls as possible.
I believe we could very be in the birthing pangs of the end times. But who know how long that lasts.
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Tom317
Guest
From the Catechism:Hi,
Can I ask a stupid question? What does Apostacy mean?
675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
Can the world be in the midst of being prepared for the coming of the antichrist? I say yes as I look at the world.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Thank you:thumbsup:
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi, I can also see where you are coming from. I am very curious about who the anti-christ is going to be but on the other hand I dont necessarily want to be here during that time.
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Tom317
Guest
I know how you feel, yet at the same time it is quite a blessing for God to choose to have us here if the antichrist is to come on the scene during our lives…it means God wants us to help save souls.Hi, I can also see where you are coming from. I am very curious about who the anti-christ is going to be but on the other hand I dont necessarily want to be here during that time.
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Fidelis
Guest
I kind of thought so.It is a guess, as I am sure you knew…I think 10% is being generous.
The only reason I asked was to illuminate the point that such an alarmingly large number such as a 90% apostacy isn’t helpful as a basis of discussion. For one thing, it’s impossible to quantify or qualify.
The danger in depending on such a unqualified high number is that it immediately causes this to be an emotional issue rather than a rational one. Emotions, however, are probably the worst basis for discussion ever.
This is made doubly inaccurate in that many people aren’t even sure what apostacy is (as evidenced by remarks on this thread). So not only are people panicking over an overwhelming large number of apostates, they don’t even know what it is or how to recognize it!
The most one could possibly say is that, in their opinion many, if not most Christians have apostasized. Even if this is arguable, at least it’s not irresponsible.
Perhaps I value rational discussion over emotionalism too much. Sorry, but that’s just me.
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