Have you explored other religions?

[fhansen]

There is absolutely no question that cannot be answered by Jehovah’s Witnesses. I have found that they are highly detailed in their answers if you really want the answers.

You were not serious enough to get the answers, and it sounds like even if you got them, you would not have wanted to hear it? I dont know that, but if you were serious you would have got the answers and pushed for them, like I have done and very well too

Many people just choose a nice and comfy religion in the end, because it is so much easier to be a Catholic.

As opposed to being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it means getting up on a Sunday Morning and going out in the door to door work (like Jesus and the Apostles and early disciples) or Saturday or during the week, or all three! It means voluntary giving of time in the door to door preaching, and when push comes to shove with some people, it really is so much easier to change to another religion where that is not required.

Point is what would Jehovah God say about that? Or doesnt he matter?

Matthew 24:14: “Good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited Earth till the end” and the apostles and disciples did this door to door as the book of Acts explains.

Get serious and go back and get it sorted out.

BibleLoyal

Jws do have answers-they’re just the wrong ones. Whether or not a group appears to be doing things right is no reason for them to compromise the truth. I suggest you step your own “seriousness level” up a couple notches and I guarantee you’ll be way less than satisfied with their answers.

 

[twopekinguys]

I have been a Catholic for most of my life, and I have been looking at JW’s and trust me its NOT like they say on this website. Go there and Make Up Your Own Mind. Do what I am doing and go to their meetings, ask questions, have a regular discussion with them, and then make up your own mind afterwards. Its all free.

You are bordering on Proseltyzing here, I would be very careful.

Advantages of being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses

The world has a very high divorce rate, about 50-70% of marriages break up. Jehovah’s Witnesses are also affected with this problem, but to a much smaller degree not quite gone, but heavily reduced

But according the the JW’s separation of a married couple is ok, as long as they aren’t divorced. They are not providing accurate numbers that way.

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have racial problems. It has been eliminated

You might want to do a little more research into this, but here is a quote from a Watchtower Magazine.
*
"The negro race is supposed to be descended from Ham, whose special degradation is mentioned in Gen. 9:22, 25. (From: Zion’s Watch Tower, August 1, 1898, p. 230) *

They follow the moral laws of God’s Word. Homosexuals: Lesbians: People living together not married: Teenagers just going from one to the next: Sexual diseases and AIDS (Aids is killing off nearly entire countries, such as in Africa): Unwanted pregnancies: Abortions are killing millions

Jehovah’s Witness have avoided nearly all of this.

Were you aware of this?

“Child molestation is a serious problem within the organization. Studies have shown that the organization has proportionally four times more sexual assaults on children than the Catholic Church”
associatedcontent.com/article/79332/racism_in_the_jehovah_witness_watchtower_pg4.html?cat=34

Other churches support war. Churches are still supporting the killing of people of their own faith! (Ex: Catholics killing Catholics)

Jehovah’s Witnesses have nothing to do with wars of any kind. They do not go to fight, and they love to be peaceable. We refuse military service worldwide

You seem to be hung up on this. You have even started another thread on this very topic, and the issue has been addressed with you multiple times.

Abusive language, and dirty speech is common. So called ‘Christians’ use this kind of language. Even ‘ministers’ of various religions speak this way. So called ‘Christians’ tell dirty jokes and swear

Jehovah’s Witnesses have nearly but eliminated this kind of filthy talk. The Bible speaks about ‘clean speech.’

You obviously don’t know the JW’s that I do.

Addictive Drugs are used by persons all over the world. Even so called ‘Christians’ use mind altering drugs. This may include alcohol. Look at the state of young people today. Drugs, alcohol are destroying millions of lives

Jehovah’s Witnesses have nearly eliminated these problems

Again, you don’t know the JW’s that I do.

These are just a few of the things you addressed.

Trust me, the JW’s aren’t any more squeaky clean than anyone else.

I also noticed throughout your posts, that you were “checking into” the JW’s, then you switch to “We”.

Thanks for confirming that you are really a JW, trying to disguise it.

 

[Contarini]

I personally would find it hard telling a wonderful Rabbi he is wrong.

But less hard telling a mediocre or awful rabbi that he is wrong? In that case, your hesitation really has little to do with truth, does it?

And, please before anyone posts all the reasons they find the Jewish Religion wrong - save the server space on CAF and send your reasons to all the Rabbi’s instead where you think the problem is.

That’s not reasonable. This is a debate forum. It’s a place where we can air our opinions. I don’t go around in real life telling everyone all the places where I think they are wrong. This is particularly the case with Jews, who have had Christians yelling at them and persecuting them for centuries. The local rabbi knows that as a Christian I disagree with him on various points, and I know that he disagrees with me. We don’t need to debate these questions. Instead, we try to help each other understand our respective traditions better.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

It was this philosophy that prompted Paul to discard the mandatory practices of Jewish diet and circumcision. It was this same idea that prompted Christmas: experts argue which pagan religion spawned the composite traditions.

Which experts? And which pagan religion? This is so vague that we can’t really discuss it.

Certainly the time when Christmas is celebrated matches the winter solstice, and many pagan traditions have festivals at this time. However, it doesn’t appear from the evidence I know that Christians set out to adapt pagan traditions–they set out to celebrate Jesus’ birth, and naturally many winter solstice traditions became attached to the celebration over the centuries.

The cross was a revered religious symbol well before Christianity, and besides, Jesus wasn’t hung on a cross, he was hung on a tree.

He was hung on something made of wood. That’s probably about as far as we can go with certainty!

Probably there was some sort of crosspiece.

A highly educated Catholic priest of my acquaintance was discussing with me the Greek and Hebrew vocabulary origins of our concepts of Hell: it is a cross of Greek pagan Hades,

A word used in the NT.

the Jewish word for “burn pit” (where trash was dumped – thus the writhing worms), and “graveyard”; and our visual pictures of Satan have encompassed facets of the Jewish word simply meaning “adversary”, with the Jewish god of the dead. (The Jews for a time worshipped a separate god for the dead, which was what made Jesus so revolutionary preaching that God is above the living andthe dead.)**

I’m not sure where you get that idea. The Jews did no such thing.

But a splendid example is the belief in Mary’s immaculate conception. This can be directly traced to a specific date as being condoned in church doctrine… it did not exist before.

Untrue. There is no particular date when the doctrine can be said to have originated. Augustine hints at it in one of his anti-Pelagian writings, when he says something like “who can say what grace was given Mary to overcome original sin”? The doctrine was certainly being debated in the 12th and 13th centuries, and by the end of the Middle Ages it was quite commonly held and came close to being officially defined (though the Dominicans held out). People get confused by the fact that it wasn’t defined as dogma until 1854.

Edwin

 

[mflorence]

*Don’t you think that the Jews were wrong about Jesus?

*

Until about 88 CE the first Christians considered themselves revisionist Jews. After they were excommunicated from the synagogue because of tensions between them and the Orthodox Jews they started to take on a more separatist “Christian” Identity. So I guess the answer depends on which sect of Jews we are referring to, and of course from which side you are viewing things. From an Orthodox Jewish perspective, the Christian Jews would have had it wrong, because both sides would concede that Jesus was not the type of Messiah they were expecting. Their scriptures indicated that a king who would restore the House of David that existed before the Babylonian exile would be the Messiah. So, for an outsider like myself who is neither Catholic, Protestant or Jewish, the answer is strictly one of historical perspective. Interestingly, there are Jews in today’s world who believe in Jesus, so in my view, they would be the closest thing in existence to the early Christians. Unfettered by dogma, holy wars and a violent evolution, they are probably more in line with the first practitioners of this faith. I have to add the disclaimer again that this is only based on history and not faith from an objective outsider with no dog in this race.

 

[Cinette]

You are bordering on Proseltyzing here, I would be very careful.

But according the the JW’s separation of a married couple is ok, as long as they aren’t divorced. They are not providing accurate numbers that way.

You might want to do a little more research into this, but here is a quote from a Watchtower Magazine.
*
"The negro race is supposed to be descended from Ham, whose special degradation is mentioned in Gen. 9:22, 25. (From: Zion’s Watch Tower, August 1, 1898, p. 230) *

Were you aware of this?

“Child molestation is a serious problem within the organization. Studies have shown that the organization has proportionally four times more sexual assaults on children than the Catholic Church”
associatedcontent.com/article/79332/racism_in_the_jehovah_witness_watchtower_pg4.html?cat=34

You seem to be hung up on this. You have even started another thread on this very topic, and the issue has been addressed with you multiple times.

You obviously don’t know the JW’s that I do.

Again, you don’t know the JW’s that I do.

These are just a few of the things you addressed.

Trust me, the JW’s aren’t any more squeaky clean than anyone else.

I also noticed throughout your posts, that you were “checking into” the JW’s, then you switch to “We”.

Thanks for confirming that you are really a JW, trying to disguise it.

*JWs are as human as anybody else. I employed one at an age people would not and after some years he began to steal from me and I had to fire him - the only person I have ever fired.

On the other hand we employed a JW woman who was loyal and wonderful and we still meet sometimes for coffee.

JWs are not Christian and it is a man-made so-called religion - say what you like.

Cinette *

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mflorence,

You have presented some interested ideas. Maybe you would like another point of view…

Until about 88 CE

This is just incidental - just like your CE - but, have you notice how the “Common Era” lines up perfectly with “Christian Era” ? Considering this is CAF, I thought you may be interested in in that.

the first Christians considered themselves revisionist Jews.

I am not familiar with the term ‘revisionists Jews’ especially as a self concept for 1st Century Catholics. What is your reference for this, Mflorence? In about 50AD the Council of Jerusalem (as recorded in Acts 15) dealt with Gentile converts not having to conform to Jewish law and custom. We see the tension and dynamics between members of the early Catholic Church and the 1st Century Jews.

After they were excommunicated from the synagogue because of tensions between them and the Orthodox Jews they started to take on a more separatist “Christian” Identity. So I guess the answer depends on which sect of Jews we are referring to, and of course from which side you are viewing things. From an Orthodox Jewish perspective, the Christian Jews would have had it wrong, because both sides would concede that Jesus was not the type of Messiah they were expecting.

The various letters of St. Paul, and the Acts vividly describe the hostility that the Jews had toward those who followed Christ. An intersting report is given of St. Peter’s first sermon on Pentecost Sunday (Acts 2:14-36) where 3,000 (Jews?) were Baptized. This probably represented a significant membership hit to the Jewish leaders on that day!

In the account given about (Acts 6-7) Stephen is charged with not following Jewish law - and Stephen turns the tables on his accusers in the Sanhedrin of repeatedly disobeying God’s law. The judges become furions and they take Stephen out and murder him.

So, with large numbers of Jews apparently changing at least part of their belief structure toward Christ - I would think the leadership felt threatened and would do all they could to stop the new religion

Their scriptures indicated that a king who would restore the House of David that existed before the Babylonian exile would be the Messiah. So, for an outsider like myself who is neither Catholic, Protestant or Jewish, the answer is strictly one of historical perspective.

There is nothing wrong with having a historical perspective - it takes in multiple aspects that give dimension to understanding any event.

Interestingly, there are Jews in today’s world who believe in Jesus, so in my view, they would be the closest thing in existence to the early Christians.

This is an interesting idea - what is meant by Jews who believe in Jesus? What is it about Jesus that has caused them to believe? Truly, Jesus announced the fulfillment of the Old Testament and that he was now initiating a New Covenant. So, at least as I see it, remaining Jewish and believing in Christ is a contradiction.

Unfettered by dogma, holy wars and a violent evolution, they are probably more in line with the first practitioners of this faith. I have to add the disclaimer again that this is only based on history and not faith from an objective outsider with no dog in this race.

Here is what appears to be a misconception - to view dogma as just so many fetters. Actually dogma is the skeleton that give the body form. Dogma is like principles - if you see a group without dogma you are seeing a group that is moved by every current of the imagination. This is like a person without principles - they too are moved by instinct, emotion and convenience.

God bless

 

[CMatt25]

*I would never tell a Rabbi that the Jewish religion is wrong. No our Faith is based on the Jewish Faith - it is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion. Pity that they did not recognise Jesus as the Messiah which, as a Christian Catholic, you should believe. The Jews were wrong to reject Jesus yes. The Mass is also based on the Passover celebration. We recognise the OT, they reject the NT - we have both.

Cinette

And yet you’re quick to tell fellow Christians they are wrong. Interesting.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, CMatt25,

The issue is not that they are “…fellow Christians…” but how do they express their ideas with regards to Christ’s commands. Using your pen-name, you may want to re-read the 25th Chapter of Matthew and see how conformity to the Will of God is the real issue - no a lack of criticism.

From what I have been reading of your posts, and in my opinion, there is an apparent eagerness to engage in sniping that does little for improving either clarity or communications. Just my opinion and one I can say, “Amen” to myself…

God bless

And yet you’re quick to tell fellow Christians they are wrong. Interesting.

 

[Cinette]

And yet you’re quick to tell fellow Christians they are wrong. Interesting.

*I don’t understand your logic Matt.

*

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Hi, Jim Dandy,

I have to hand it to you, JD, this shows a clarity of insight that just defies description!

But, you know, you just can’t get away with making unfounded or unsubstantiated statements without getting your hand called on it! So, put some facts where your mouth is: reference where Jesus did not tell us the truth while He was on earth.

And, yes, having credible sources is important …

God bless

Hi, tqualey,

Please review posts #88, #91, #94, #99, #100, and #103 - 106, to get some context for the post (below), which appears to be the one you found objectionable. Perhaps you didn’t notice the question mark.

Papa Benedict lamented that relativism is rampant. And he is right. Jesus didn’t tell us the truth when he came to earth the first time, but he’ll tell us later? Hmmm.

The True Faith was “delivered once for all to the saints” (Jude 3) – i.e., from Christ and His Apostles to the Catholic Church – and this Deposit of Faith is the source of all that the Catholic Church teaches. The Church teaches the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth because God Himself has revealed it.

I am opposed to the notion that “we all believe in Jesus,” and that’s all that is required to get to heaven (Sola Fide). Some have written that we won’t know the truth until we die, implying that Jesus revealed only part of the truth when He came to earth, and its okay for some Christians to believe one thing and some another, since all of us are going to heaven anyway. IOW, truth is relative. Martyrs have died for the Catholic Faith from her beginning in A.D. 33 to the present. Truth is worth dying for.

The Catholic Church teaches that other ecclesial communities (there’s only one Church) have part of the truth, but that she alone possesses the total Revelation of God.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[CMatt25]

Hi, CMatt25,

The issue is not that they are “…fellow Christians…” but how do they express their ideas with regards to Christ’s commands. Using your pen-name, you may want to re-read the 25th Chapter of Matthew and see how conformity to the Will of God is the real issue - no a lack of criticism.

From what I have been reading of your posts, and in my opinion, there is an apparent eagerness to engage in sniping that does little for improving either clarity or communications. Just my opinion and one I can say, “Amen” to myself…

God bless

Tom, just found it interesting Cinette would correct someone who shares our faith in a Risen Lord and Savior. But was so adamant against correcting the Jewish rabbi who does not share our belief. Sorry if you found that to be sniping. Didn’t post it as such.

I actually should have pen named myself CMatt 25:35-46. Where Jesus gives those examples of how to serve and express our love for Him in righteousness and talked about who will have eternal life.

God bless you too. Peace.

 

[Cinette]

*Protestants protest against the Catholic Church ie they say we are wrong, we are evil! Some Protestants call our Pope the antiChrist!! Some also say that the CC is the Whore of Babylon - there have even been people who have written books against the Catholic Church!! So many lies have been told - history has been distorted - so many conspiracy theories abound!

I don’t know of any Catholic that has gone so far as to write a book tearing down other Christians.

However - we say they are wrong. Is that so bad?

Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

*About Jews.

I have a special affection for Jews. As our Holy Father JPII said, they are our older brothers. We have a connection. But I do lament that they did not recognise Jesus!

I love the singing in the Synagogues! About two years ago a Jewish friend and her daughter were without a car and I took them to the synagogue (I remember the feast they were celebrating - most important one for Jews - but my spelling…) I was so disappointed though because it lacked reverence. The rabbi and all the readers seemed to be in a race to get the prayers over with - some members of the choir were chewing gum. I was sitting in the gallery with other ladies and they were talking most of the time. One young woman nearby was deep in prayer and stood the whole time. A lady next to me helped me to follow the prayers in the prayer book which I appreciated. As the men came into the temple downstairs they got into groups and had conversations!!! There was one orthodox very devout man who prayed against the wall. The homily was disappointing. Not very inspiring. The “service” went on for hours and after about 2 hours we left.

However as we left I thought to myself that this was just one experience - there must be other synagogues where there is more devotion and reverence.

Cinette *

 

[CMatt25]

Protestants protest against the Catholic Church ie they say we are wrong, we are evil! However - we say they are wrong. Is that so bad?

Cinette, that is quite a generalization to say Protestants say we are evil.

And just seems to me we share a unity in our belief in a Risen Christ and in professing Him Lord and Savior with our Protestant brothers and sisters. Which we don’t quite share with our Jewish friends. But if you feel more of a special affection for our Jewish friends than for our fellow Chrsitians, then that’s how you feel I guess. God bless us all. Peace.

 

[Cinette]

Cinette, that is quite a generalization to say Protestants say we are evil.

And just seems to me we share a unity in our belief in a Risen Christ and in professing Him Lord and Savior with our Protestant brothers and sisters. Which we don’t quite share with our Jewish friends. But if you feel more of a special affection for our Jewish friends than for our fellow Chrsitians, then that’s how you feel I guess. God bless us all. Peace.

*I need to begin again! Yes I said Protestants and omitted the word “some”. In fact I appreciate many Protestants. They challenge us and keep us on our toes. I was thinking about those who are opposed to us.

I often think of Protestants in light of our common beliefs which is great. Now I am going to have to go back and read earlier posts to see how we got to this particular subject.

Oh something else…what about the converts? They are the best and have enriched our lives.

Cinette*

 

[Julia1996]

*I need to begin again! Yes I said Protestants and omitted the word “some”. In fact I appreciate many Protestants. They challenge us and keep us on our toes. I was thinking about those who are opposed to us.

I often think of Protestants in light of our common beliefs which is great. Now I am going to have to go back and read earlier posts to see how we got to this particular subject.

Oh something else…what about the converts? They are the best and have enriched our lives.

Cinette*

As you mentioned, there are Protestants who are opposed to the Catholic Church, and there are those that respect it. Are the Protestants who oppose the Catholic Church any less able to receive eternal life?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Julia1996,

Welcome to CAF!

As you mentioned, there are Protestants who are opposed to the Catholic Church, and there are those that respect it. Are the Protestants who oppose the Catholic Church any less able to receive eternal life?

While Cinette is perfectly able to respond to your post, let me jump in here and strongly condemn all generalizations … of this is one! Yes, without a doubt, there are just too many folks to neatly fit into any one category! So, “some Protestants” as opposed to just “Protestants” would probably have been a better choce of words … but, you mentioned something that I think needs some further examination…

Merely ‘opposing’ or even ‘respecting’ the Catholic Church is not a ticket to either Hell or Heaven! The issues are really more complex - but, boil down to: just WHY does someone ‘oppose’ the Catholic Church? if for example they truly believe that it is the “Whore of Babelyon” well then, they will be judged by God on the sincerity of their belief and how they acted towards their fellow man (the “Love thy neighbor as thyself…” section of the two great commandments (Mark 12:31)

Now if they ‘respect’ the Catholic Church because or its uniformity in various administrative details - well, that is probably not going to get these people very far when it comes to how one reads Matthew 25. The final destination for these ‘respectful’ folks does not hold much out much hope!

Ultimately, it boils down to how are you working with the lights God has given you? if you are sincerely seeking to find Christ in the Church and in your fellow man, that has a lot of promise. If you do not want to be bothered with looking, well … you will reacall the “…wicked and lazy servant…” who burried his talent. It didn’t go well with that guy, either!

So, at least as I see it, how one actually cooperates with the Grace of God is the issue… and this is true for all.

God bless

 

[Cinette]

As you mentioned, there are Protestants who are opposed to the Catholic Church, and there are those that respect it. Are the Protestants who oppose the Catholic Church any less able to receive eternal life?

*I can only speak for myself. Catholics in my circle never talk about the salvation of others. This tendency is something I find among Protestants. We believe that God is merciful and that He will judge accordingly. Protestants are our separated brothers and sisters and do have many beliefs in common.

No - I do not believe that Protestants who oppose the CC will not receive eternal life! Gosh many Protestants are more devout than some Catholics. There is a tendency among both Protestants and Catholics to be a little secular and new age ideas have permeated in their thoughts and beliefs!! Unfortunately.

I go to a “Soul Workshop” on Thursdays and I am amazed at some Catholics’ questions and remarks. It is obvious they have been badly catechised. This, among people of certain age who should know better! I can’t wait for next Thursday because if they make any ignorant remarks I will speak up in a different way. Last week I was aghast and I responded with surprise and may have come across as judgmental. I shall take a Catechism with me!

Cinette*

 

[Cinette]

Hi, Julia1996,

Welcome to CAF!

While Cinette is perfectly able to respond to your post, let me jump in here and strongly condemn all generalizations … of this is one! Yes, without a doubt, there are just too many folks to neatly fit into any one category! So, “some Protestants” as opposed to just “Protestants” would probably have been a better choce of words … but, you mentioned something that I think needs some further examination…

Merely ‘opposing’ or even ‘respecting’ the Catholic Church is not a ticket to either Hell or Heaven! The issues are really more complex - but, boil down to: just WHY does someone ‘oppose’ the Catholic Church? if for example they truly believe that it is the “Whore of Babelyon” well then, they will be judged by God on the sincerity of their belief and how they acted towards their fellow man (the “Love thy neighbor as thyself…” section of the two great commandments (Mark 12:31)

Now if they ‘respect’ the Catholic Church because or its uniformity in various administrative details - well, that is probably not going to get these people very far when it comes to how one reads Matthew 25. The final destination for these ‘respectful’ folks does not hold much out much hope!

Ultimately, it boils down to how are you working with the lights God has given you? if you are sincerely seeking to find Christ in the Church and in your fellow man, that has a lot of promise. If you do not want to be bothered with looking, well … you will reacall the “…wicked and lazy servant…” who burried his talent. It didn’t go well with that guy, either!

So, at least as I see it, how one actually cooperates with the Grace of God is the issue… and this is true for all.

God bless

*I agree with your observations Tom.

I have a friend who converted to the CC and she once remarked that she was quite comfortable and satisfied with the CC and did not need to explore further and I reminded her that exploration is something that should never end, we need to be continually converted and renewed until the day we die.

Cheers
Cinette*