Have you heard of Centering Prayer?

[DBT]

I absolutely agree that all of this has to come from love, and from my experience with people at the CP workshop with Fr Keating, I would take that as a “given” in people who are exploring the practice, though that might not always be the case as with anything else.

Ah yes, thank you John for cutting right to the heart of the matter I truly think what has made this thread a bit difficult at times is that terminology means different things to different people - depending on where they’re coming from. Even the word “beginner” as been a point of differentiation, for goodness sakes!

What you say as “taken as a given” really is a point of unity with all the things I’ve been trying to say. That this has been your experience with others in CP is a very good thing. This is a clear indication to me that the slow growth in holiness and practice of virtues we’ve been discussing in the context of St. Teresa was clearly at work in these people; leading them to the threshold of a contemplative life. For without determined practice in virtue, the type of love we’re discussing here isn’t possible. Thank you for your insight!

And I would agree that use of a sacred word, without the attendant preparatory time spent in love with God, would not be of much if any value to a beginner.

Thank you!, Thank you!, Thank you!

Dave

 

[Joysong]

Ncjohn:

I would further agree that just uttering a “sacred word” like some kind of magical charm, with an expectation that that was going to be of some beneftit, would be misguided at best. Again though, I have not encountered that in people I have seen exploring CP, though I certainly couldn’t say that it couldn’t happen, or that someone couldn’t mistakenly promote such an idea. And I would agree that use of a sacred word, without the attendant preparatory time spent in love with God, would not be of much if any value to a beginner.

Believe it or not, John, there are some who teach in the Church today who misunderstood the original concept. I reaffirm that Keating initially wrote solely for monastics who already passed through the preparatory time. When he broadened his work to share it with non-monastics who requested it, some are misapplying the teaching in just the manner you described above. I think that is what we are objecting to most of all.

Well, well! It seems we have come to some common ground in our understanding. Praise God! But to conclude here, I cannot believe anyone who is serious about the spiritual journey to God will fail to grow by reading the Carmelite works and those of other saints such as Francis de Sales, as opposed to Keating’s, which can potentially be very misleading and misapplied. Spiritual direction regarding the latter is essential, if one persists in wanting this seemingly easy practice!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Joysong,
no offense, but you seem to stop on certain words, which distort what the author, of the Cloud of Unknowing as well is saying.

You have reached a point where your further growth in perfection demands that you do not feed your mind with meditation on the multiple aspects of your being. In the past, these pious meditations helped you to understand something of God. They fed your interior affection with a sweet and delightful attraction for Him and spiritual things, and filled your mind with a certain spiritual wisdom.

But now it is important that you seriously concentrate on the effort to abide continually in the deep center of your spirit, offering to God that naked blind awareness of your being which I call your first fruits

The author is talking about levels of growth in prayer. He is not suggesting that you must reach this point before you begin mediation.

And then from St. Teresa, Way of Perfection, as posted to Dave ealier;

You will ask, my daughters, why I am talking to you about virtues when you have more than enough books to teach you about them and when you want me to tell you only about contemplation. My reply is that, if you had asked me about meditation,

I could have talked to you about it, and advised you all to practise it, even if you do not possess the virtues.

For this is the first step to be taken towards the acquisition of the virtues and the very life of all Christians depends upon their beginning it. No one, however lost a soul he may be, should neglect so great a blessing if God inspires him to make use of it.

Again, I have consulted with my Carmelite Spiritual Assistant’s on the issue of Centering Prayer, and they have no problem with and one that I know of, does it himself.

So, if it’s not for you, God has not led you to it for a reason.

He has however, led me to it even when I was just a beginner.
It was the practice of Centering Prayer, that Lord opened the door to Carmel to me.

Jim

 

[ncjohn]

Spiritual direction regarding the latter is essential, if one persists in wanting this seemingly easy practice!

I think as we progress in our spiritual journeys we come slowly to that humility that finally lets us admit the value (dare I say “necessity”?) of sound spiritual direction. That is one thing I think that the Third Orders really help with, both in helping us to recognize the need and helping to provide for it. Of course that might be more true for us men who probably have more issues with accepting “help” with anything at all!

I do think though that people who go to the workshops (at least the ones I’ve seen), especially those who subsequently follow up in established groups rather than immediately striking out on their own, do have a level of spiritual direction that is more than adequate to get them going. I don’t think I’d want to see beginners trying to do this out of a book in their living room.

So have we maybe come to the end here, at least for this incarnation of the topic? If so, maybe the Moderators can just shut this one down?

 

[Joysong]

[JimR]
The author is talking about levels of growth in prayer. He is not suggesting that you must reach this point [what point? contemplation? ] before you begin meditation. [If so, I agree, that’s why I posted the quote.]

[St. Teresa, quoted by JimR]
I could have talked to you about it [meditation] and advised you all to practice it [meditation] For this is the first step to be taken towards the acquisition of the virtues and the very life of all Christians depends upon their beginning it.

Jim, you totally lost me as to how I distorted both authors’ meaning, for I have been saying that all along, that growth in prayer normally includes the practice of meditation as a preliminary practice prior to contemplation [and sometimes even *coincides with it]. Both above are confirming that, and I agree totally.

I’m really getting weary of arguing, for we are not reaching a point of agreement. You are picking at words to support your position, which nobody has disputed is wrong, only misapplied, IMO.

And again, I hear your echo, not so, not so. I rest my case.

 

[DBT]

So have we maybe come to the end here, at least for this incarnation of the topic? If so, maybe the Moderators can just shut this one down?

I can’t think of a better time than now to put this one to rest! Good to see you again! I’m outta here . . .

Dave.

 

[Joysong]

Me, too, Dave!

 

[deekod1967]

Whatevergirl:

To exchange the Rosary for Centering Prayer is like exchanging your college diploma for a pre-school certificate. The Rosary is both a meditative and oral prayer (like most, I cannot think and speak at the same time, so to pray the Rosary as it is meant to be prayed is quite a challenge for me.) You seem to be at home meditating on the Mysteries and praying the spoken prayers – this is very advanced, and there is no limit to the spiritual development that will come if you persevere in praying the Rosary. John Paul the Great and Pope Benedict XVI are both advocates of the Rosary – have either of them ever said word one about Centering Prayer? That by itself is enough to make you go, hhmmmm? Mary gave us the Rosary, who gave us Centering Prayer? Again, hhhhhmmmmmm?

Maybe Centering Prayer is good, maybe it is dangerous. Maybe it is Eastern Paganism or New Age Paganism or just navel gazing. Why bother with it? Cling to the Rosary, meditate upon its holy mysteries.

Marsha

Recently I have been on a real “dip” family life has taken its toll on my prayer time and I am sorry to say I havent been frequenting the sacraments as i should.

Your post has prompted me to rediscover a contemplative approach to praying the Rosary - thank you - you will always be in my prayers.

 

[CatQuilt]

Did you see the link? I thought what you are saying before too…but, it seems that the centering prayer has to do with centering our lives on God. Why would church parishes promote it?? Just wondering…?

I apologize in advance for jumping in and answering this without reading the rest of the thread but unfortunately, there are many people who are into New Age types of spirituality, which is what centering prayer appears to be.

I wish the pastors would do a better job of weeding this stuff out but either they don’t understand the problem or they don’t want to make waves.

 

[CatQuilt]

I tried to edit my last message but the time had expired so here it is in a new message…

Edited to add: I’m not 100% certain that centering prayer is a bad thing, given the knowledgeable posters who have written about its methods and benefits but I do know that some have twisted it to be more “new age”. Given that some people would not be able to discern the difference between a good practice, i.e. orthodox and a bad practice, i.e. “new age”, I couldn’t recommend it unless I knew the person(s) leading/teaching it.

 

[DiZent]

I’m not 100% certain that centering prayer is a bad thing, given the knowledgeable posters who have written about its methods and benefits but I do know that some have twisted it to be more “new age”. Given that some people would not be able to discern the difference between a good practice, i.e. orthodox and a bad practice, i.e. “new age”, I couldn’t recommend it unless I knew the person(s) leading/teaching it.

Ditto. I became interesed in CP when I was trying to discern whether or not I should try yoga for exercize & relaxation. I read Fr. Thomas Ryan’s book “Prayer of Heart & Body” which referenced many of the same sources listed in this thread. I haven’t researched any further, but did not find anything wrong with the practice if approached with the right mindset. I was not comfortable “trying this at home” without some spiritual direction. Thanks to the discussions here, I knew to be cautious with my approach to yoga, choosing a DVD with an instructor firmly rooted in her Christian belief and prayer - no eastern mysticism or new age. I haven’t decided about CP, but would approach with the same caution. Right now, I love the Rosary and pray it daily. I’m looking at Lectio Divina, but haven’t made a committment to the practice yet.

Diane Z.