Have you read the Book of Mormon?

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I have obviously read it being LDS.

It can be a difficult book to read in the beginning. I can liken it best to Someone opening up to the book of Isiah and expect it to find it an easy read.

I completely understand how it can be a difficult book to read from a person of another faiths point of view. I also understand that unsettling feeling you have when you first start to read it.

I get this every time I start reading it myself. It seems implausible that the Book was not written by Joseph Smith especially when one reads about all of the purported teachings of Joseph Smith and his purported conduct he lived his life, The web has all types of stories on him.

However as I get past my feelings and read and study it I cannot but help to find that this book makes me a better person. I find stories that parallel both my own life’s problems and also the problems that our society has in it today and how those stories give us a answer in how to conduct and live our lives in accordance with Christs Teaching. In the end I cannot deny this book nor the man that brought it forth.

There are a few doctrinal items that are not understood in main stream Christianity and as such the book is not accepted but for one to deny the book teaches Christs main points of doctrine is a gross mis-statement.

My recommendation is for a person who wants to read it to start in the book of Helaman and read to the end. You may very well still believe Joseph Smith wrote the book and you may not agree with everything but I believe it would be hard to state afterwards that the book does not testify of Christ our Savior.
 
PeanutBono said:
I have obviously read it being LDS.

It can be a difficult book to read in the beginning. I can liken it best to Someone opening up to the book of Isiah and expect it to find it an easy read.

I completely understand how it can be a difficult book to read from a person of another faiths point of view. I also understand that unsettling feeling you have when you first start to read it.

I get this every time I start reading it myself. It seems implausible that the Book was not written by Joseph Smith especially when one reads about all of the purported teachings of Joseph Smith and his purported conduct he lived his life, The web has all types of stories on him.

However as I get past my feelings and read and study it I cannot but help to find that this book makes me a better person. I find stories that parallel both my own life’s problems and also the problems that our society has in it today and how those stories give us a answer in how to conduct and live our lives in accordance with Christs Teaching. In the end I cannot deny this book nor the man that brought it forth.

There are a few doctrinal items that are not understood in main stream Christianity and as such the book is not accepted but for one to deny the book teaches Christs main points of doctrine is a gross mis-statement.

My recommendation is for a person who wants to read it to start in the book of Helaman and read to the end. You may very well still believe Joseph Smith wrote the book and you may not agree with everything but I believe it would be hard to state afterwards that the book does not testify of Christ our Savior.
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That is a whole lot different than believing it is “scripture”. There are many inspiring religious books out there, but only one inspired Book. I find it interesting that you also have an “unsettling feeling” when you read it. Why do you suppose that might be?

As far as teaching “Christ’s main points of doctrine”, that is what I find most disturbing. Mixing a little error with a lot of truth is more dangerous than a book containing nothing but error. Its like putting a little poison into a seemingly healthy meal.
 
SteveVH said:
That is a whole lot different than believing it is “scripture”. There are many inspiring religious books out there, but only one inspired Book. I find it interesting that you also have an “unsettling feeling” when you read it. Why do you suppose that might be?
One could hypothesize that God gives you that feeling as a warning about it being a book of lies and one could also hypothesize that Satan does not want you to read the book because of the truthfulness of it.We obviously have different views of where that feeling came from and that is both yours and my agency to feel that way.

As far as teaching “Christ’s main points of doctrine”, that is what I find most disturbing. Mixing a little error with a lot of truth is more dangerous than a book containing nothing but error. Its like putting a little poison into a seemingly healthy meal.
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I agree in completion! Satan is the great counterfeiter and he counterfeits Gods word with small errors to deceive. Each of us as an individual must study it out in our mind and ask God to confirm to us truth from error. Again we have a different opinion on the matter of the Book of Mormon but that is our God given agency.
 
Joseph Smith, who “mystically” translated it in the 19th century - however, he appears to have translated it into almost perfect “King James” English!
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I chose “other” because I have attempted to read parts of it so I could intellegently argue against it but it was soooo repetitious and boring! And you are correct about that King James English. How can any intelligent mormon NOT question that?? :confused:
 
SteveVH said:
I’m amazed at your take on this. Do you believe it? If you don’t, how do you “thouroughly enjoy” it?
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He said that there are certain passages he enjoys. He didn’t say the whole thing. :doh2: There are passages that I enjoy, but I read them as satire of Biblical literalism.
 
We do not understand how the Urim and Thumimm worked but believe that it translated the words on the Golden Plates to the language most familiar to Scriptures of the day which would have been the King James Version. The Church continues to this day to change out words that have changed meaning from the time Joseph Smith translated the plates to today.
As some words meanings can be construed to have a different meaning later. An example would be what Gay meant 50 years ago and what it means today.
 
Mixing a little error with a lot of truth is more dangerous than a book containing nothing but error. Its like putting a little poison into a seemingly healthy meal.
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That is the most pernicious thing about the BoM, aside from plagiarism and historicity issues.
 
Did Joseph Smith believe that an angel guided him toward adultery?

I’ve found some info here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,Jr#Founding_a_church.281827.E2.80.9330.29

" Smith had by some accounts been teaching a polygamy doctrine as early as 1831.[145] Some time after 1830 when the adolescent Fanny Alger started working as a serving girl in the Smith household, Smith entered a relationship with her,[146] and by 1833 he may have married her.147"

145.^ Compton (1997, p. 27); Bushman (2005, p. 326); Hill (1977, p. 340).
146.^ Bushman (2005, p. 323) (noting that Alger was fourteen in 1830 when she met Smith, and her involvement with Smith was between that date and 1836, and suggesting that the relationship began as early as 1831).
147.^ Compton (1997, p. 26); Bushman (2005, p. 326) (noting Compton’s date and conclusion); but see Smith (2008, pp. 38–39 n.81) (questioning whether Smith and Alger were actually married).
 
The large portions of the Book of Mormon which I did complete, seems like much of the Bible. The Bible isn’t exactly the most compelling page turner on the market either. That the Book of Mormon seemed boring I agree with, but that doesn’t speak against it unless it also speaks against our own Bible. Religious literature is often valuable without being easy to read. Often, there is background information that is vital for one to be able to see the value or appreciate the lessons. I found the Koran to be very much the same way. I don’t have much regard for testimonies about how the book feels, whether it is non-Mormons saying it feels evil, or Mormons saying it feels spiritual. Feelings can come from expectations.
 
Yikes. Smith’s adultery helped lead to what killed him.

"By the spring of 1844, a rift had developed between Smith and a half dozen of his closest associates, most notably his trusted counselor William Law and Robert Foster, a general of the Nauvoo Legion.

Law and Foster disagreed with Smith about how to manage Nauvoo’s theocratic economy, and both believed Smith had proposed marriage to their wives.

After the dissidents organized, and one of them was heard predicting an uprising in Nauvoo, Smith excommunicated them on April 18, 1844.

The dissidents formed a competing church and the following month procured grand jury indictments against Smith for polygamy and other crimes in Carthage, the county seat.

In response, Smith and his followers unleashed a barrage of defamation against the dissidents, and in a public sermon, Smith vehemently denied he had more than one wife. After the dissidents published a prospectus for a new newspaper that referred to Smith as a "self-constituted monarch, "the Council of Fifty offered to reinstate Law, but he refused to return to the church unless it renounced polygamy.

Therefore, on June 7, 1844, the dissidents published the first and only issue of the Nauvoo Expositor, calling for reform within the church. The paper decried polygamy and Smith’s new “doctrines of many Gods” (taught recently in his King Follet discourse) and alluded to Smith’s kingship, promising to present evidence of its allegations in succeeding issues.

At a meeting of the Nauvoo city council, Smith again denied that the church was practicing polygamy. On the theory that the paper threatened to bring the countryside down on the Mormons, the council ordered the Nauvoo Legion to destroy the Expositor’s printing press as a public nuisance.

Smith failed to foresee that suppressing the paper would sooner incite riots than allowing it to continue publishing. Destruction of the newspaper provoked a strident call to arms by Thomas C. Sharp, editor of the Warsaw Signal. Fearing an uprising, Smith mobilized the Nauvoo Legion on June 18 and declared martial law.

Carthage responded by mobilizing its small detachment of the state militia, and Illinois Governor Thomas Ford appeared, threatening to raise a larger militia unless Smith and the Nauvoo city council surrendered themselves.

After instructing his clerk to hide or destroy the minutes of the Council of Fifty and ordering the Anointed Quorum to burn their temple garments, Smith fled across the Mississippi River. Nevertheless, under pressure from Emma and other Saints, he returned and surrendered to Ford. On June 23, Smith and his brother Hyrum were taken to Carthage to stand trial for inciting a riot. Once the Smiths were in custody, the charges were increased to treason against Illinois.

Smith and Hyrum were held in Carthage Jail. On the morning of 27 June 1844, Smith sent a letter ordering the Nauvoo Legion to attack Carthage and free him, but the acting commander quietly disobeyed the order.

Later that day, an armed group with blackened faces stormed the jail and killed Hyrum instantly with a shot to the face. Smith fought back with a pepper-box pistol that had been smuggled into the prison but was shot while jumping from a window, then shot and killed as he lay on the ground. Smith was buried in Nauvoo.

Five men were tried for his murder; all were acquitted.
 
PeanutBono said:
We do not understand how the Urim and Thumimm worked but believe that it translated the words on the Golden Plates to the language most familiar to Scriptures of the day which would have been the King James Version. The Church continues to this day to change out words that have changed meaning from the time Joseph Smith translated the plates to today.
As some words meanings can be construed to have a different meaning later. An example would be what Gay meant 50 years ago and what it means today.
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Well, the Urim and Thummim used by JS (“two stones in silver bows”) are not the same as those used in the OT. How did they/it help to translate the words on the Golden Plates?

Why would your church change out words that have changed meaning from JS time? God would not need His Word to change, would He? For instance, most of us don’t use the word covet in everyday conversation, however the word is still used in the Ten Commandments.
 
PeanutBono said:
One could hypothesize that God gives you that feeling as a warning about it being a book of lies and one could also hypothesize that Satan does not want you to read the book because of the truthfulness of it. We obviously have different views of where that feeling came from and that is both yours and my agency to feel that way.
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Why then, if it is the voice of evil trying to trick me into not reading it because of its truthfulness, have I never felt this way when reading the Bible? Not even close. In fact, just the opposite. There is an overwhelming sense that I am reading truth.
PeanutBono said:
I agree in completion! Satan is the great counterfeiter and he counterfeits Gods word with small errors to deceive. Each of us as an individual must study it out in our mind and ask God to confirm to us truth from error. Again we have a different opinion on the matter of the Book of Mormon but that is our God given agency.
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Yes it is. Good luck with that.
 
I’ve read it. I’m not Mormon and have no desire to be, but was curious about their beliefs since I am a direct descendant of one of their pioneers.

I’ve read many a religions “sacred texts” and never felt fear or threatened by them.
 
bkayw said:
Did Joseph Smith believe that an angel guided him toward adultery?

I’ve found some info here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,Jr#Founding_a_church.281827.E2.80.9330.29

" Smith had by some accounts been teaching a polygamy doctrine as early as 1831.[145] Some time after 1830 when the adolescent Fanny Alger started working as a serving girl in the Smith household, Smith entered a relationship with her,[146] and by 1833 he may have married her.[147"

145.^ Compton (1997, p. 27); Bushman (2005, p. 326); Hill (1977, p. 340).
146.^ Bushman (2005, p. 323) (noting that Alger was fourteen in 1830 when she met Smith, and her involvement with Smith was between that date and 1836, and suggesting that the relationship began as early as 1831).
147.^ Compton (1997, p. 26); Bushman (2005, p. 326) (noting Compton’s date and conclusion); but see Smith (2008, pp. 38–39 n.81) (questioning whether Smith and Alger were actually married).
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First I do not count wikipedia as a reliable source since it is easily edited by whomever however you have some truths in your statements namely that yes we believe and angel commanded him to take upon other wifes. According to the Joseph Smith Papers published by the Church History Department he took upon himself 30 wives besides Emma. There were some in the church at the time who believed that Joseph was a fallen prophet because of this and most critics today use this as evidence he never was a prophet. Some of his closest friends became his worse enemy and turned against him and as result they were responsible for his murder at the age of 38. While they did claim him to be a fallen prophet they never denied he was a false prophet. Most came back into the church decades after his death and asked for forgiveness but not all.
I can personally reconcile this with my own faith as I can see that in the past God has allowed polygamy with his prophets or even concubines. Most well known is Abraham but several other old testament prophets had hundreds of wives and even more concubines, As for the case with Joseph Smith I know that the Church would not have moved forward without it. Most LDS people in Utah who are 5th generation are here due to polygamy. Brigham Young the 2nd prophet of the church would never have been accepted by the people if he was to introduce the practice but they would if Joseph did and that is why I believe the Lord commanded Joseph to do it. We never would have survived the exodus and the establishment of Utah.
I do not believe that Joseph was an adulterer although he is a human and often was reprimanded and called to repent by the Lord through revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants.
Contrary to what you may read we do not worship Joseph Smith and we know he was not perfect and you can find the same for every prophet in the bible. Look at King David for example. All are men.
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lax16 said:
Well, the Urim and Thummim used by JS (“two stones in silver bows”) are not the same as those used in the OT. How did they/it help to translate the words on the Golden Plates?

Why would your church change out words that have changed meaning from JS time? God would not need His Word to change, would He? For instance, most of us don’t use the word covet in everyday conversation, however the word is still used in the Ten Commandments.
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there is no evidence that they are the same or that they are not the same bt here are the bible references as they relate to biblical urim and thummim
Ex. 28: 30 (Lev. 8: 8) put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim.
Num. 27: 21 ask counsel for him after the judgment of Urim.
Deut. 33: 8 Let thy Thummim and thy Urim be with thy holy one.
1 Sam. 28: 6 Lord answered him not, neither by . . . Urim, nor by prophets.
Ezra 2: 63 (Neh. 7: 65) stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.
Rev. 2: 17 (D&C 130: 10) white stone, and in the stone a new name.
 
How convenient for Smith to qualify his adultery by using the marriage practices of God’s chosen pagan tribe.
 
The Jews only had one wife. And Jesus forbid the remarriage of divorced people.

So…Smith finds the loopy hole Lives to 39 and is thought to have married 33 women.

Tiger Woods of the early 1800’s.
 
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