Have your arm relaxing on pew inside the church?

[chicago]

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Look at who is taking about meeting an agenda. Do you not think a bishop can exhort while at the same time incorporate the other attributes. Even today – a bishop is to reprove when it is called for—or is this considered to extreme by your standards.

Of course not! I’m just noting that the ancient description offered in that statement suggests a stylistic and standard which is not particularly of the preference which most here (including yourself it would seem by your insistent argumentation) approve. It is not calling for a bishop who cracks the whip demandingly to divide the wheat from the chaff, but exhoring him to be one who patiently and meekly bears hardship while faithfully instructing, exhorting, and - yes - gently reproving I am sure, on occasion when required. It fits well, indeed, with the witness that many bishops (and the body of bishops as a whole) strive for and generally accomplish in contemporary times; much to the dissatisfied chagrin of many who post here that consider them weaklings. It is ironic, then, that such an ancient document (which some would consider to be in many ways strict) would seem to endorse this model of episcopal governance.

 

[Walking_Home]

Walking Home you completely missed the meaning of Alphonsus’ post. You have your views and seem to know everyone elses heart and intentions. It’s obvious this is not a discussion for you but a platform where no one else is heard because they are so obviously wrong. It’s funny how accuse others of shortcomings and can not see your own. I see no need to waste any more time on this thread.

God Bless.

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Don’t see my own --you say. It is because I do see my own human short–comings --that I say what I say. Are you and others above the constant struggle – to raise ourselves out of our own human weaknesses.

 

[chicago]

I don’t know if it’s wrong, per se, but I think it goes along the lines of how we respect our Lord. Of course, it’s in our hearts that we really show our respect.

I think it’s disrespectful for me to wear anything less than slacks and a button-down shirt and loafers to Sunday Mass, to pray at any time with my legs crossed or my arms across the back of the pew. I also try to maintain respectful silence before Mass, and prepare myself for this moment of heaven on earth.

I don’t think it’s scandal whatever anyone else does, though my mind does get distracted when such things are seen, but I don’t judge, and try to keep my mind on the reason for attending Mass.

To me, Scott Hahn said it best, to paraphrase, the only really scandalous thing going on at Mass is that we all are not worthy to receive our Lord in the Eucharist.

See. I think you tend to “get it”. Your position is something which anyone ought to find totally respectable and insightful. For you speak firstly to what you find appropriate in your own spiritual life, but show appreciation for others take on things (and even offer honest comment on how this affects your own sensibilities.) If more people would simply express themselves thusly, and admit to the legitimacy of alternate perspectives or practices (even if they are not what ring as ideal to oneself), I think that we could all get along much better and even learn from each othert rather than having to insist on who’s right and wrong. Not to sound therapeutic, but in this sort of case, “It’s all right!” each in its own way.

Way to go with understanding what we are really at Mass for and what’s truly unworthy amidst all the appearances.

 

[mommyof4]

you must not get out much, the folks who do this are also, for some reason, the same ones who wear flip-flops

Oh great, you must have seen my daughter the other weekend in church! Not to worry, as soon as I saw it, I freaked out and made her put her feet down.

 

[mommyof4]

I have not read through this entire thread, just the OP and the one with the picture of the man sitting in a pew with arms outstretched.

I would like to thank those who are appalled by this, for helping me to understand why so many Catholics choose to sit in the back of the Church. They don’t want to be criticised by sanctimonious Catholics who will make an issue out of every little thing that they might do wrong.

Once again thanks!

Jim

I hear ya! I’m always paranoid I’m going to come home from mass some Sunday afternoon, log into CAF, and find some new thread complaining about “some lady in church with her 4 kids, and they were all dressed wrong, they wore this, didn’t wear that, kids were acting up, blah, blah, blah…” and I’ll realize they are talking about ME and MY KIDS!:bigyikes:

 

[water]

Way to go with understanding what we are really at Mass for and what’s truly unworthy amidst all the appearances.

the bottom line is: God is the center of the attention during mass. don’t make oneself be the center.

 

[Leopard]

…I suppose if someone truly is offended by that, then perhaps it would be wise to seat oneself in the front pews so to avoid the temptation of annoying oneself by paying too much attention at how another sits in a pew.

Seriously, this may be good advice, and those who choose to follow this course will find themselves in good company.

It has been reported that Raymond Kolbe, later St. Maximilian Kolbe, OFM Conv., when he was in formation would choose the front choir stall whenever possible so as not to be distracted by the other friars when chanting the Office. It should be noted, though, that Friar Maximilian never indicated that the other friars were at fault for his distractions; that was strictly his problem and he dealt with it as he thought best.

 

[puzzleannie]

This opening paragraph, alone, runs against everything most people here want:

Sounds like what most would call a “liberal bishop” to me!

yeah those early Church fathers really rocked.

 

[puzzleannie]

There’s also a great line in there about making sure not to be a partaker in the “observation of birds”. I’d like to know what that it all about, as it is included with things like soothsaying and other practices which we might recognize as being bad. So, I suppose, it is fine for me to be excited at the site of a blue jay. Still, it wouldn’t surprize me to read someone insisting that we, “Guard your eyes against the robin, lest you too be damned!”

dang I missed that part, I will have to stop taking my binoculars when I visit churches and shrines located in prime bird watching areas.

check out the part about women with children being sent to another place, they even had cry rooms back then.

have to add this cool link on good reasons why NOT to wear flip-flops to church, if you go back to yahoo you can also get the video version
buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/75152/flip-flops-yea-or-nay

 

[chsngtailodogma]

i haven’t read every post in this thread so i don’t really know how the debate/discussion turned out, but it’s been my experience that it doesn’t really pay to try and micromanage people.
and then there’s the logic of “why do you look at the splinter in your brother’s eye, and not notice the beam which is in your own eye?” or something to that effect… Matt 7:… 5?

 

[Sarabande]

Seriously, this may be good advice, and those who choose to follow this course will find themselves in good company.

It has been reported that Raymond Kolbe, later St. Maximilian Kolbe, OFM Conv., when he was in formation would choose the front choir stall whenever possible so as not to be distracted by the other friars when chanting the Office. It should be noted, though, that Friar Maximilian never indicated that the other friars were at fault for his distractions; that was strictly his problem and he dealt with it as he thought best.

Thanks, Leopard! Actually, my husband will sit in the first few front pews because he says there are way too many pretty women that come to mass at our Cathedral. (There are a few universities/colleges in our city, so we do get alot of attractive students and young working adults (20s-30s) who live in the city - we’re within the same age range as them.) He doesn’t blame it on the women as most of them do dress appropriately (although some don’t), but he is like many men who are visually “inspired”, so to speak, and he does his best to avoid mental temptation and focus on the mass.

 

[water]

Thanks, Leopard! Actually, my husband will sit in the first few front pews because he says there are way too many pretty women that come to mass at our Cathedral. (There are a few universities/colleges in our city, so we do get alot of attractive students and young working adults who live in the city - we’re within the same age range as them.) He doesn’t blame it on the women as most of them do dress appropriately (although some don’t), but he is like many men who are visually “inspired”, so to speak, and he does his best to avoid mental temptation and focus on the mass.

This is also a good reason why one should not draw others’ attention onto himself during mass.

 

[Cranch]

He doesn’t blame it on the women as most of them do dress appropriately (although some don’t), but he is like many men who are visually “inspired”, so to speak, and he does his best to avoid mental temptation and focus on the mass.

I love this understanding turn of phrase. Maybe because I fit the description. Thanks for the smile.

 

[chicago]

the bottom line is: God is the center of the attention during mass. don’t make oneself be the center.

Or, I might add, anyone else!

 

[Sarabande]

This is also a good reason why one should not draw others’ attention onto himself during mass.

Perhaps I’m not understanding you correctly, but I don’t see how my husband sitting in the front pews will draw attention to himself during mass. The attractive women also aren’t doing anything to draw attention to themselves. They are just naturally attractive with God-given beauty and can’t help it if people pay attention to them, especially if they dress appropriately and aren’t really doing anything to garner attention. The only thing they could do is perhaps wear a veil that covers the face? But I guess that would draw even more attention to the mystery of the veil.

Actually, when you think about it, almost anything could draw attention away from mass - whether it’s a person so deep in prayer he/she looks so holy and reverent you can’t help but notice that person (I’ve seen people like that have been inspired by it) or a very young child really interested in the mass and asking her/his parents about what is going on at each point during the mass. Even sisters or nuns wearing their habits is so out of the norm today, at least in my diocese, that they do attract attention just by wearing their habits. You should see the stares, as if they are some sort of attraction at the Cathedral, especially when they come in groups. The friars get the same thing when they’ve visited there.

 

[PoliSciProf]

It bothers me more when I see people driving this way.

 

[Sarabande]

I love this understanding turn of phrase. Maybe because I fit the description. Thanks for the smile.

Glad I placed a smile on your face!!! I grew up with lots of men in my family (father is one of 5 boys) and I always sympathised with their plight. My husband says he has to fight it almost every day with me. No matter what I wear, it gets him “inspired”. Love is truly blind.

 

[water]

Perhaps I’m not understanding you correctly, but I don’t see how my husband sitting in the front pews will draw attention to himself during mass.

I wasn’t referring to your husband drawing attention to himself but to those who might attract others and your husband, by different means.

Sorry about the confusion.

 

[Sarabande]

I wasn’t referring to your husband drawing attention to himself but to those who might attract others and your husband, by different means.

Sorry about the confusion.

No problem. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[KathleenElsie]

When I see someone with their arms outstretch across the back of a couch, chair or pew I read it as stay away from me. But OTOH there is just so much room in a pew and if everyone did this then there would only be room for four people in each pew in our church:shrug: .