Having a relationship with God is impossible

[JB_Brother_4446]

In the opening post you defined God with no limits.
Now you seek to limit God.

Non sequitur.

Duly noted.

 

[Bahman]

RE: the Bingo! response of Secret Catholic.

I will add UNO!

This post sums up my opinion as well.
I wish the OP all the best, but there is too much time trying to make people prove something that he doesn’t believe or care to experience.

I don’t have a fixed belief because I am constantly change my mind because I am constantly searching for Truth. I care for my experience but I have to understand how my spiritual experiences are possible logically as well.

Posting a thread and then not giving any consideration to the various answers from people all over the theological map is really pointless.

It is not pointless. We are simply discussing here. I am making an argument and you can provide a counter argument. That is not my fault if you cannot provide a counter argument. This probably means that you didn’t think thoroughly enough.

One CAN have a relationship with God.

I believe that I have a relation with God. I just cannot comprehend it giving Catholic definition of God.

In fact, you already do. He is your creator.
He will decide when you return to Him.

You see, that is one of your problem. God does not need to make up His Mind. So He does,'t decide. He is not like us. I have a thread on this topic here.

That’s a pretty strong relationship. I for one, would like to have a 2-way convo rather than just a staring out the window type of relationship.
But you already do have a relationship with Him. Whether you acknowledge it or not. If you want to know Him better, get on it. We can’t make that happen for you. It’s all up to you. I fear you’ve decided he’s not necessary, but I could be mistaken. I hope so.
God bless you.

I have a rich spiritual experiences but I have to make my mind that how such experiences , such as experiencing God, are possible.

 

[Bahman]

How is it possible that God can do anything?
LOL

Who is going to stop God from having a relationship with those He loves?

You don’t pay any attention to the point which was presented in OP. I have relationship with God but I don’t understand how that is possible given Catholic definition of God.

 

[Bahman]

Bahman,

Do you think God can communicate? (I hope your answer is yes, otherwise you suggest God cannot do such a simple thing as make noise and be heard.)

If you agree omnipotent God can communicate, do you agree relationship is possible?

If you are in one room (and cannot see me) and I am in the next room - do you think we can still communicate even without seeing each other? You could talk and I could hear you.
You think relationship is possible?

God can speak to us many ways. Dreams, Angels, Stone tablets, prophetic visions,
…a little baby born in Bethlehem.

Communication with God is impossible accepting Catholic definition of God. This is discussed in OP. You cannot provide any insight to the problem by asking questions. You need to provide an argument which shows that something is wrong with OP.

 

[Bahman]

In the opening post you defined God with no limits.
Now you seek to limit God.

Non sequitur.

That is not correct. I am just puzzled that how such a relation with God is possible giving the Catholic definition. This seems to me logically impossible as it is discussed in OP.

 

[Bahman]

Oh it is. It isn’t God who needs to change: it’s us.

That I understand. We however need to justify that such a relationship is possible given the Catholic definition of God. This seems to me logically impossible.

 

[LethalMouse]

That I understand. We however need to justify that such a relationship is possible given the Catholic definition of God. This seems to me logically impossible.

It is not the Catholic definition that is the issue.

It is Bahman’s decision on what that definition means that is the issue.

 

[pianistclare]

I don’t have a fixed belief because I am constantly change my mind because I am constantly searching for Truth. I care for my experience but I have to understand how my spiritual experiences are possible logically as well.

It is not pointless. We are simply discussing here. I am making an argument and you can provide a counter argument. That is not my fault if you cannot provide a counter argument. This probably means that you didn’t think thoroughly enough.

I believe that I have a relation with God. I just cannot comprehend it giving Catholic definition of God.

You see, that is one of your problem. God does not need to make up His Mind. So He does,'t decide. He is not like us. I have a thread on this topic here.

I have a rich spiritual experiences but I have to make my mind that how such experiences , such as experiencing God, are possible.

Oh I see,.
You’re smarter than everyone else.
I’m surprised you even need to constantly debate and seek.
If you’ve got a lock on this issue, why ask over and over and over???

I hope you feel better about yourself now that have dismissed all of my comments.

You’re on a CATHOLIC forum. Millions of Catholics have a relationship with God.
But yet…we know nothing.
Check.

If you would stop demanding that God prove Himself to you…you might realize that He’s been there with you all along.

You’re fighting against Him.
Good luck with that.
Bye.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

This is like “THE NEVER ENDING STORY.” It could go on forever…and ever. Baham’s really isn’t looking for answers, but to undermine the very basic belief in the existence of God. He can not do it. We can not explain God to him. God just “IS.”

Good fishing, Baham. You are like a ship adrift in a never ending sea without a rudder. Peace.

 

[LethalMouse]

This is like “THE NEVER ENDING STORY.” It could go on forever…and ever. Baham’s really isn’t looking for answers, but to undermine the very basic belief in the existence of God. He can not do it. We can not explain God to him. God just “IS.”

Good fishing, Baham. You are like a ship adrift in a never ending sea without a rudder. Peace.

I found him in the movie

 

[adamhovey1988]

Oh I see,.
You’re smarter than everyone else.
I’m surprised you even need to constantly debate and seek.
If you’ve got a lock on this issue, why ask over and over and over???

I hope you feel better about yourself now that have dismissed all of my comments.

You’re on a CATHOLIC forum. Millions of Catholics have a relationship with God.
But yet…we know nothing.
Check.

If you would stop demanding that God prove Himself to you…you might realize that He’s been there with you all along.

You’re fighting against Him.
Good luck with that.
Bye.

If I didn’t have a relationship with God I would not have been in tears before my confession earlier and during Mass. I was upset because I offended God. I’m curious what your belief in the purpose of “guilt” is. Friend, how do you judge what is right and what is wrong? Why is there an inherent natural order? I can’t pretend to know “why” things are but I know they are. May I suggest that you read “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis? He was Protestant, but offered a very good explanation not only of God, but Christianity. I hope that your studies enlighten you to the truth friend. God bless.

 

[thenobes]

Originally Posted by thenobes View Post
It depends on the nature of the relationship. If we call the relationship"distance", then surely our walking closer towards the wall changes the relationship for both of us.

When you give of yourself, when you empty yourself, you have greater capability to receive the particular grace of God where He communicates to you His nature and His plans, both for your good and that of others.

Love is an act of the will to do what is best for the others not worrying about your own particular needs, since by faith you know your own needs are taken care of by God.

Originally Posted by thenobes View Post
So would a wall be (changeless, that is).

By the way, just because God is eternal and outside of time, doesn’t mean He can’t interact in a temporal manner. It is just that every entry into a point of time in the “temporal world” is interacting actually with all of the temporal universe at once. It only appears to us to happen at discrete points of time because we are “stuck” in temporality.

God cannot act temporary.

Not "cannot act temporary, but cannot act “in temporality.”

I however understand what you are trying to say. You believe that God knows everything eternally, your pray for example, and can answer to your praying by His eternal act. There is however a problem in this view: God’s eternal acts should fork to ensure that He can sustain universe properly. God however cannot know the current time because He dwells in eternal now, hence He cannot sustain the creation by one eternal act.

God knew every event of the universe, every choice we would make, before He even created the universe. The eternal now encompasses all of the time of the universe. God does not need to respond in a temporal manner, because He responded to all of the universe’s contingencies at creation.

peace
steve

 

[Bahman]

It is not the Catholic definition that is the issue.

It is Bahman’s decision on what that definition means that is the issue.

That is not correct. God is changeless in your view. Relationship is about cause and effect. In simple word, you do something to please another person (act), this act change the person (effect), the person in reply does something to please you. If you agree with this then you understand that making relationship with God is impossible since you cannot change Him. Do you have any argument against mine?

 

[Bahman]

Oh I see,.
You’re smarter than everyone else.

That is not correct. I just tried hard to get the point I am right now.

I’m surprised you even need to constantly debate and seek.

I need to debate to open my mind. You cannot get anything for free.

If you’ve got a lock on this issue, why ask over and over and over???

I am locked within because I have to resolve to many problems in my mind.

I hope you feel better about yourself now that have dismissed all of my comments.

I didn’t dismissed your comment. I just reply to them. What is your reply?

You’re on a CATHOLIC forum. Millions of Catholics have a relationship with God.
But yet…we know nothing.
Check.

The main aim of this thread is to understand whether the relationship with God is possible given the Catholic definition.

If you would stop demanding that God prove Himself to you…you might realize that He’s been there with you all along.

You’re fighting against Him.
Good luck with that.
Bye.

I am not fighting against anything. I just want to understand the Truth.

 

[Bahman]

This is like “THE NEVER ENDING STORY.” It could go on forever…and ever.

Don’t you believe that God is infinite? If it is so then we have to find our way to him. This is however as you mentioned the never ending story.

Baham’s really isn’t looking for answers, but to undermine the very basic belief in the existence of God.

That is not correct. Are you inside my mind to see what is my purpose for my all debates?

He can not do it. We can not explain God to him. God just “IS.”

That is not correct. Please read post #53. I would be happy to see your counter argument.

Good fishing, Baham. You are like a ship adrift in a never ending sea without a rudder. Peace.

That is no correct. I think I am in the right path.

 

[Bahman]

When you give of yourself, when you empty yourself, you have greater capability to receive the particular grace of God where He communicates to you His nature and His plans, both for your good and that of others.

I have relationship with God. He has never gave me his plan. Every time that I ask to understand something he ask me to think. I realise that it could not be otherwise considering the fact that we are intellectual beings.

Love is an act of the will to do what is best for the others not worrying about your own particular needs, since by faith you know your own needs are taken care of by God.

Love is an emotion.

Not "cannot act temporary, but cannot act “in temporality.”

I don’t understand what you mean.

God knew every event of the universe, every choice we would make, before He even created the universe. The eternal now encompasses all of the time of the universe. God does not need to respond in a temporal manner, because He responded to all of the universe’s contingencies at creation.

That is not correct. God could not know anything before creation since his in timeless state.

 

[LethalMouse]

That is not correct. God is changeless in your view. Relationship is about cause and effect. In simple word, you do something to please another person (act), this act change the person (effect), the person in reply does something to please you. If you agree with this then you understand that making relationship with God is impossible since you cannot change Him. Do you have any argument against mine?

So you are arguing that my view is incorrect and not your understanding of my view…

BY telling me that my view must conform to your understanding of my view???

DUDE I and pretty much no one who is not in a hospital understands things like you and therefore your understanding of ANYONES view on ANYTHING is like 90% subject to being WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY OFF.

Your whole issue is that you think you know what other people think and then proceed to argue with them based on your made up version of them.

WE ARE NOT Bahman’s alternate personalities, but separate individuals…none of whom think in your terms.

 

[Bahman]

So you are arguing that my view is incorrect and not your understanding of my view…

You are not providing an argument at all.

BY telling me that my view must conform to your understanding of my view???

You didn’t really present any view.

DUDE I and pretty much no one who is not in a hospital understands things like you and therefore your understanding of ANYONES view on ANYTHING is like 90% subject to being WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY OFF.

Your whole issue is that you think you know what other people think and then proceed to argue with them based on your made up version of them.

WE ARE NOT Bahman’s alternate personalities, but separate individuals…none of whom think in your terms.

You are not presenting anything useful here.

 

[LethalMouse]

You are not providing an argument at all.

You didn’t really present any view.

You are not presenting anything useful here.

Bahman: YOUR view is “X”

Everyone else: “Not really the way you are saying”

Bahman: “Yes! It is, my definition of your view is what your view is and you are incoherent”

Dearest Bahman… you cannot attribute your made uo versions of things to how other people think or understand and then procede to actually be right if it is not accurate.

Your definitions of our definitions are not as we see them nor define them.

Ergo you points and questions are based on folley.

You are obsessed with near literal and specific takes on things and wording and ignore the myriad of posters who state that those ideas are not ours.

 

[Bahman]

Bahman: YOUR view is “X”

Everyone else: “Not really the way you are saying”

Bahman: “Yes! It is, my definition of your view is what your view is and you are incoherent”

Dearest Bahman… you cannot attribute your made uo versions of things to how other people think or understand and then procede to actually be right if it is not accurate.

Your definitions of our definitions are not as we see them nor define them.

Ergo you points and questions are based on folley.

You are obsessed with near literal and specific takes on things and wording and ignore the myriad of posters who state that those ideas are not ours.

So you simply believe that you are having a relationship with God. You simply ignore the argument presented in OP.