Having close friends that are homosexual

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wollie
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Did not the disciples sin by disobeying the sabbath law? Granted we do not have the Jewish customs of the sabbath, but are we not required to obey the 10 commandments yet today, one of which is to keep holy the sabbath?

Jesus did allow them to sin, is this not a fact? Does this mean I think Jesus approves of sin, no of course not, but why did he allow them to sin? Why did he not rebuke them? He showed them mercy because they were hungry.

He was not merciful to the Pharisees, because he knew what was in their hearts. They felt they were “holy” because they obeyed all the laws & made their sacrifices as required. They were “puffed up with pride” and boastful of their obedience. They thought they were free from sin and there was certainly no room for mercy in their hearts.

Jesus allowed the disciples to sin, not just because he was being merciful, he was manifesting himself as God and it was going to be only by his mercy and sacrifice that anyone would be free from sin.

God requires mercy from us… he has taken care of the sacrifice. This is the greater lesson.

Now, do I compare the sin of the homosexual lifestyle with the choice of the disciples disobeying the sabbath? No.

Does going to a homosexual civil union that I do not approve of require me to display an act of mercy? Yes, I have room in my heart for this act of mercy.

Jesus knows what is in my heart…I am not so “puffed up with pride” to deny my brother a merciful act so that I can say to myself “I obeyed the law”

It is not about my brother’s sin, he is going to whether I go or not, it is about my act of mercy.
 
Where was Jesus mercy for the money changers in the temple? Did He not take a whip and rebuke them?
 
SirOscar said:
God requires mercy from us… he has taken care of the sacrifice. This is the greater lesson.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting point. But Jesus also says we are to deny ourselves and carry our cross. Our cross might be to do something very hard like possibly not attending that wedding.
 
SirOscar said:
Did not the disciples sin by disobeying the sabbath law? Granted we do not have the Jewish customs of the sabbath, but are we not required to obey the 10 commandments yet today, one of which is to keep holy the sabbath?

Jesus did allow them to sin, is this not a fact? Does this mean I think Jesus approves of sin, no of course not, but why did he allow them to sin? Why did he not rebuke them? He showed them mercy because they were hungry.

He was not merciful to the Pharisees, because he knew what was in their hearts. They felt they were “holy” because they obeyed all the laws & made their sacrifices as required. They were “puffed up with pride” and boastful of their obedience. They thought they were free from sin and there was certainly no room for mercy in their hearts.

Jesus allowed the disciples to sin, not just because he was being merciful, he was manifesting himself as God and it was going to be only by his mercy and sacrifice that anyone would be free from sin.

God requires mercy from us… he has taken care of the sacrifice. This is the greater lesson.

Now, do I compare the sin of the homosexual lifestyle with the choice of the disciples disobeying the sabbath? No.

Does going to a homosexual civil union that I do not approve of require me to display an act of mercy? Yes, I have room in my heart for this act of mercy.

Jesus knows what is in my heart…I am not so “puffed up with pride” to deny my brother a merciful act so that I can say to myself “I obeyed the law”

It is not about my brother’s sin, he is going to whether I go or not, it is about my act of mercy.
Click to expand...
Could it be that Jesus didn’t think the disciples were sinning when they picked the wheat because they were hungry? Perhaps he didn’t consider that “working”, but just some rule the religious leaders had imposed on the people. Had the Pharisees offered them food, they wouldn’t have had to do it. It seems Jesus was making a point that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath; that their “strictness” was not out of love or concern, but only to add burdens on people. Jesus often did works of mercy such as healing people on the Sabbath. Was he sinning? According to the Pharisees twisted take, he was, but obviously he didn’t think so.

I guess I just don’t agree that attending this event is a merciful act. Giving someone a meal, babysitting for a busy mother, sitting with someone when they are dying- these I would call merciful acts. Watching someone choose to commit mortal sin- I don’t think so. I’m sorry but I don’t see how that is showing mercy.
 
sir Oscar im still not seeing it the way you are. What about when Jesus cured the beggar it was the Sabbath. And they said he was a sinner because of Jewish Law. I see that Jesus letting them eat because they were hungry as a good enough excuse. If Jesus felt they were doing wrong he would have corrected them. Had mercy on the yes, Jesus has mercy on everyone, but you must repent and be sorry. Look at the apostles when they were wrong Jesus corrected them. Yes he had mercy but he still corrected them. I just dont see Jesus overlooking someone sinning. He knows your heart, and if you know and are aware of your sin then it worse than if you have no control, or dont realize it. Im still not seeing the comparison.
 
If i may add Jesus said I am not changing the OT I am fullfilling it. If you think back Jesus never really changed anything. Like you said the ten commandments are still the ten commandments. But we are aloud to work on Sunday if we must. So think about it the ten commandments are the same today as yesterday Correct. Now Jesus didnt change the ten commandments he just explained them better. Which IMO is what he did with them being hungry and eating and having mercy. He more or less said its okay because I dont see this as sinning, Maybe that was the whole moral of the story. To show there are times you may look like you are sinning to others but not to Jesus. And if in his eyes he understands he has mercy because he doesnt see it as a sin. Because think about it , If it was sinning then it still is today and we are all getting it. Just my opinion, Sorry for going OP but in a way is still a part of this thread because it has to do with choosing to sin, knowing God disagrees, and Sinning through no fault of your own. Example is you must work on SUnday or get fired and you must feed your family.
 
Sir Oscar,
When you get permission from JESUS HIMSELF to attend a gay wedding ceremony, then by all means, go with a clear conscience.

In the meantime, we are advised to obey HIS representative here on this earth - The Catholic Church - and She has spoken to this issue.

Nice try.👍
 
Then blessedtoo’s analogy about the girl only wanting those who agree with her to be at her wedding isn’t a good analogy to use then because we aren’t comparing apples to apples.

The closest apples to apples analogy I can think of would be abortion because both abortion and homosexual marriage are gravely sinful acts that are legal.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t attempting to make a comparison between sins. I was attempting to illustrate the possible motives some homosexual couples might have in inviting “dissenting” friends and family to the weddings.

When I asked my daughter-in-law what this man would have to do to get back into her good graces and possibly get invited to the wedding, she said he would to apologize and promise to never offend like that again.

Is that what our homosexual friends are hoping for when they invite us to their weddings?
Here’s a hypothetical situation that might be comparable:
Click to expand...
It’s not comparable. A human life is at stake.
A girl decides she wants to get an abortion. She asks you to take her to the abortion clinic even though she knows you are against abortion. Do you take the girl to the abortion clinic or not?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not.
 
SirOscar said:
Much debate on this as displayed in the other thread.

No one commented on my post regarding the scriptures in Matthew. that says: “I require mercy, not sacrifice” so I will give you my thoughts.

**Jesus was with the disciples the very moment they sinned according to Jewish Law. **They picked grain of wheat in the very presence of God! They disobeyed one of the 10 commandments and Jesus allowed them to sin. Jesus did not slap the hands of his disciples and remind them that it was the sabbath. He knew they were hungry, so he had a little compassion for them.

Notice though, that Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for pointing out to him that the disciples sinned and said “If you knew what this meant, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, you would not have condemned these innocent men.”

Jesus did not rebuke the disciples for sinning, he rebuked the pharisees! The pharisees are noted for obeying the Jewish laws and making sure they perform their sacrifices to the letter of the law of sacrifices, so they may be ever pleasing in the eyes of God.

I sometimes wonder then, if perhaps Jesus is showing us that an act of mercy can be just as pleasing to God and might at times, outweigh the strict the adherence to the laws and sacrifices (thank God we do not have to perform any animal sacrifices to please Him today!)

What qualifies an act of mercy? Is going to a loved ones gay wedding an act of mercy?

Just my thought for the day.
Click to expand...
What about Luke 12 ?
51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Click to expand...
Following the Gospel is radical.
 
Haven’t read the entire thread but here’s my 2 cents. You should not attend the wedding --maybe the reception, if he is still willing to have you there. Attending the wedding would show support for the wedding. By briefly attendting the reception you are simply saying you want him to be happy – but maybe that may be too much. Tell him personally that you’ve decided you cannot attend the wedding. If he does not understand, this may be the point where you might have to let the friendship go. Do not let him manipulate or emotionally blackmail you into compromising your religion. That you embrace your religion does not mean a personal rejection of your friend but he may choose to see it that way. It may hurt deeply to lose the friend but you don’t have much choice if it comes to that.
 
OK. So it looks like we have finally come to a consensus.

He should attend the wedding, but keep the best man’s speech to **under **10 minutes.

Rinne and EstesBob will organise the flowers (thanks guys!).

And remember: Make sure you have a good time!!!
 
thomfra said:
OK. So it looks like we have finally come to a consensus.

He should attend the wedding, but keep the best man’s speech to **under **10 minutes.

Rinne and EstesBob will organise the flowers (thanks guys!).

And remember: Make sure you have a good time!!!
Click to expand...
Oh what the heck, roses or carnations!
 
SirOscar said:
Much debate on this as displayed in the other thread.

No one commented on my post regarding the scriptures in Matthew. that says: “I require mercy, not sacrifice” so I will give you my thoughts.
Click to expand...
You ignored my response to you.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3906392&postcount=255

In a nutshell, the disciples were not sinning. The Pharisees were mistaken in their interpretation of the law. Jesus would not have encouraged his disciples to sin because sin is not good for us.

Also, picking a grain of wheat when you’re hungry is DEFINITELY not apples to apples when we’re talking on the other hand about HOMOSEXUAL “MARRIAGE”.

… just my 2-cents, re-deposited a second time … without the least indignation at being ignored … (well maybe a little) 🙂
 
Wollie said:
So this is my situation…
I have a close friend who is homosexual. We were friends for a long time before I knew that he was gay. One day a long time ago he just showed up in my dorm room and said, “hey, this is my boyfriend.” I didn’t know what to do at the time so I just said, “uhhh, … hello.” anyway at lot of time has passed since then the homosexual issue rarely comes up as he’s never had a boyfriend that lives in town. He knows that I think homosexuality is a sin, but also that i care deeply for him as a person. He is thinking of getting married. I know that it would be devastating to our friendship to not attend. I know most people will say I should not go, but I want to be there. I’m not sure what to do. I have the feeling he will need me as a witness to the faith in the future. Jesus attended functions of sinners and tax collectors while he was on the earth. So what are your opinions?
Click to expand...
I wanna say… go there… But something in me tells me that might not be the best thing. I think rather you should tell him: “Man, you are my friend and I love you but I cant attend your wedding because I believe this realtionship is not good for you. We have been buddies inspite of our differences in world view: You know I am a Christian. You have always known this. We love homosexual people, you are loved by Jesus, but two men living together and having a sexual life is not good in my belief. I have always loved and respected you as a person and I hope to remain your friend, but I cant bear to see you doing something I believe will hurt you in the long run”.

You are right… Jesus attended fuctions of sinners. He did not attend sinful functions though.
 
urban-hermit said:
You ignored my response to you.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3906392&postcount=255

In a nutshell, the disciples were not sinning. The Pharisees were mistaken in their interpretation of the law. Jesus would not have encouraged his disciples to sin because sin is not good for us.

Also, picking a grain of wheat when you’re hungry is DEFINITELY not apples to apples when we’re talking on the other hand about HOMOSEXUAL “MARRIAGE”.

… just my 2-cents, re-deposited a second time … without the least indignation at being ignored … (well maybe a little) 🙂
Click to expand...
Sorry Sir Oscar he is right, and if you keep reading that scripture Jesus says they are inocent.
 
Well as far as im concerned we have got a correct answer to our question. And if we are true to our Faith and true to Christ we must listen and obey what we are told. God Bless everyone!
 
urban-hermit said:
🙂 Thanks for lightening things up.

But this question HAS been answered by a Catholic Answers apologist, in case any reader of this long thread missed that.

SirOscar already got his Catholic Answer, and here it is:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=250944

(the answer links to this link, where the actual answer is:)
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=167154
Click to expand...
Here’s the pertinent part to what Michelle Arnold said:

In the case of same-sex partners, the Church has spoken so strongly against “same-sex marriage” that I cannot recommend attending or celebrating “same-sex weddings” under any circumstances.

AND:

If you are not attending the wedding as a matter of principle, then I cannot recommend attending a reception or giving a gift to honor an occasion that you believe in conscience that you cannot celebrate.

Of course Michelle Arnold words are not infallible teachings of the Church But it would appear from a Catholic apologist standpoint There is no real debate about this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top