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thomfra
Guest
Estesbob. I love it! Where *were *you when I was getting married?!?!?
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urban-hermit
Guest
He wasn’t able to attend - it was a matter of conscience.
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St_Aloysius
Guest
And if the Church’s advisement (for that is what it is) contradicts the dictum of our own conscience, should we obey? Would not to do so be little more than dishonesty?
The OP feels compelled toward filial love to support his (or her) brother in this vital moment. With this as the motivation, what can there truly be to object to…?
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LilyM
Guest
No it wouldn’t be dishonest. It would be an acknowledgement that we as individuals have imperfect, fallible and often misinformed and misformed consciences which can’t ever be allowed to take precedence over the perfectly formed and INfallible collective conscience and guidance of the Magisterium.
The objection is that this ‘vital moment’ is a moment where the brother is commiting a sin. It is morally wrong to support someone in committing a sin, and moreover betrays a lack of true love for the person, however much the OP may claim they are acting out of love, since it seeks the brother’s earthly happiness over the only true and lasting happiness, which is their eternal salvation.
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Stylteralmaldo
Guest
They are comparable when you consider both situations are legal and in both cases a human soul(s) is(are) at stake.
Where the situations are not comparable is that in an abortion situation, there is a third person where a human life is being terminated. My intent wasn’t to make both situations to be exact in every aspect. But they are comparable as both deal with the soul being potentially mortally wounded by the enactment of it and both are considered legal in this country.
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jean8
Guest
wollie,
If he is your friend do you want to see him in heaven someday?
I’m sure you do. Tell him to repent. We are all called to repent everuday. About everything.
The Bible clearly tells us about the sin of homosexuality. God calls this an abomination. See Rom.1:24-32 “those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
God destroyed Sodom and for those practicing this sin.
Sexual sins are difficult to deal with. we all struggle here. They are no different.
There is no such thing as same sex marriage.
Pray for him and tell him what the Bible teaches, if you can. Is he a Christian?
I wish you the best in your efforts.
jean8
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dianaballein
Guest
As was pointed out to me in a discussion I posted yesterday, we are not put on this earth to judge your friend. Only God can do that. Be a good friend, and a supportive person. Show him that as a Catholic and a Christian, you provide unconditional love and you are a safe place for him to turn to should he decide to change his life. Live with an open heart for all.
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Brian_T
Guest
I also got a buddy thats homosexual what you got to remembers is god loves them.
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rinnie
Guest
Yes but does he love God. IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY WORD. I understand God loves everyone and you are correct but you still cant take something that goes against the word of God and try to make it right. You still cant say that just because I love you I will overlook what you are doing. Sure you cant change it or them, but isnt there a time you must put Love and hurting someones feelings aside and worry about their soul. I mean no offense but we cant help them in the next world, but we can at least try here. Do you really think this is okay, i mean really. I have heard all sides and if i am comming off sounding mean i dont mean to. But there comes a time no matter how much you love someone you must say hey this is wrong. I cant be a part of this, I love you but God says no and i must obey my Religion. The more and more i read its like no one wants to be the bad guy to say you are wrong. Its time someone stands up and says it. Its better to be hated and try to get them back with God than watch them destroy their lives. Lets be honest no good is going to come out of this marriage. And do you really believe God is going to bless this wedding.
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cbrownell
Guest
This is for those who follow Church teaching completely and believe that homosexuality is a sin that we as Catholics cannot approve in any way lest we fall into sin ourselves:
This is truly a struggle of mine. The main point I struggle with is HOW, WHERE, and WHEN to tell my friend to repent. I do not believe that my message would be received, even if said in the most seemingly innocuous way. As someone else said, it would be perceived as judgmental or hate speech. Does this matter? Am I being a coward? Can I wait until it comes up or is it my responsibility to address the issue boldly and head on? Am I approving of sin by merely associating with this person, such as having dinner at a suburban diner?
Also, I am conflicted because I know many other people who live in a constant state of sin (mainly my extremely obese family and friends who use birth control and are fornicators). Am I a hypocrite if I single out my gay friend’s sin while not telling another to repent? Aren’t all sins equal in God’s eyes? TIA for your help!
This is truly a struggle of mine. The main point I struggle with is HOW, WHERE, and WHEN to tell my friend to repent. I do not believe that my message would be received, even if said in the most seemingly innocuous way. As someone else said, it would be perceived as judgmental or hate speech. Does this matter? Am I being a coward? Can I wait until it comes up or is it my responsibility to address the issue boldly and head on? Am I approving of sin by merely associating with this person, such as having dinner at a suburban diner?
Also, I am conflicted because I know many other people who live in a constant state of sin (mainly my extremely obese family and friends who use birth control and are fornicators). Am I a hypocrite if I single out my gay friend’s sin while not telling another to repent? Aren’t all sins equal in God’s eyes? TIA for your help!
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WarriorInChrist
Guest
If you choose not to go for religious purposes (something that is very serious and not to be taken lightly) and he holds it against you for not being there, then he was never a friend to begin with. People can sin and there’s nothing you can do to stop them, but they shouldn’t expect you to support, pat them on the back, or attend those functions either. It’s his problem, not yours, the way I see it.
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jean8
Guest
brian,
yes,God loves sinners. we are told also to repent of our sins. God loves us but hates sin.
God bless,
jean8
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peary
Guest
One would think that, in the moral sphere, one’s conscience, if properly formed in the Faith, would not contradict the Church’s standing on this issue.
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eichenb2
Guest
Make sure you tell your friend the Truth. That is, that homosexual activity is objectively disordered and sinful. In fact SSA is disordered. That is what the catechism and Magisterium teach. Homosexual activity can be mortal sin and land us in hell. If you don’t share this with your friend, it would be eternally UNloving.
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AliciaCL
Guest
I totally disagree. If your friend(s) know you are Catholic and are very traditional, they already know what you think. Recommend keeping it as secular as possible and step back from any activity which you see as compromising your principles. At some point, you can state that you fully embrace the church teachings and summarize what they are and proclaim your friendship. You can tell him/them you pray for them but leave it at that. Let him/them know you’d be glad to talk about it more if they were ever interested. Otherwise, I think you are butting in and you will likely be seen as an religious extremist. By giving a short summary of the teachings you are already communicating what you need to.
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Exalt
Guest
The Bible also says that shellfish are an abomination and that I can sell my daughter into slavery.wollie,
If he is your friend do you want to see him in heaven someday?
I’m sure you do. Tell him to repent. We are all called to repent everuday. About everything.
The Bible clearly tells us about the sin of homosexuality. God calls this an abomination. See Rom.1:24-32 “those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
God destroyed Sodom and for those practicing this sin.
Sexual sins are difficult to deal with. we all struggle here. They are no different.
There is no such thing as same sex marriage.
Pray for him and tell him what the Bible teaches, if you can. Is he a Christian?
I wish you the best in your efforts.
jean8
I’m a little confused here, what parts of the Bible should I follow or not follow? I really like Red Lobster, after all.
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cbrownell
Guest
Well, now that’s just silly. Is that really your argument in favor of homosexuality?!?! How about the 10 commandments for a start?
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Image_of_God
Guest
I will give my opinion on the issue and if I am incorrect and you are right, I will submit to you.
The problem with today is that (some) people have come to believe that people’s actions are so integral to people themselves that to reject the former is also to reject the latter. But there is to be distinguished here a person and his actions. Let us say for example that a mother had a son who had stealing tendencies. Should we say that in order to accept her son she must also accept his stealing tendencies? Most reasonable people would say no. We would say that the mother should love her son, but reject the stealing tendencies.
So it is with the Church, who loves her sons and daughters who are inflicted with same sex attractions dearly. However, she being a most good and holy mother, rejects the evil actions that might result from same sex attractions. Consequently, she is accused of hating those afflicted as such and of devaluing them. But if you look at the issue from a different perspective, the Church raises the dignity of people so afflicted by saying something to the affect of “people are more valuable than how they act.” I would venture to say that the belief that I have gone over which causes people to accuse the Church of hatred, is but a form of functionalism which believes that the value of people is based on how well they function. This is the same philosophy behind euthanasia and abortion. The Church believes in essentialism, which places the value of man, not in what he does, but in who he* is*.
I hope that I have not derailed the thread. And if I am wrong, I will accept right correction.
The problem with today is that (some) people have come to believe that people’s actions are so integral to people themselves that to reject the former is also to reject the latter. But there is to be distinguished here a person and his actions. Let us say for example that a mother had a son who had stealing tendencies. Should we say that in order to accept her son she must also accept his stealing tendencies? Most reasonable people would say no. We would say that the mother should love her son, but reject the stealing tendencies.
So it is with the Church, who loves her sons and daughters who are inflicted with same sex attractions dearly. However, she being a most good and holy mother, rejects the evil actions that might result from same sex attractions. Consequently, she is accused of hating those afflicted as such and of devaluing them. But if you look at the issue from a different perspective, the Church raises the dignity of people so afflicted by saying something to the affect of “people are more valuable than how they act.” I would venture to say that the belief that I have gone over which causes people to accuse the Church of hatred, is but a form of functionalism which believes that the value of people is based on how well they function. This is the same philosophy behind euthanasia and abortion. The Church believes in essentialism, which places the value of man, not in what he does, but in who he* is*.
I hope that I have not derailed the thread. And if I am wrong, I will accept right correction.
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