Having sex outside of marriage

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Reasonand_faith said:
SHE IS IN SIN. And you know this how? Because the OP posted it? Or do you have a crystal ball, and you know all?
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rpp said:
First, it seems clear that you do not understand what the sin of “judgment” is. It is not seeing someone commit a sin, rather it is determining the state of a person’s soul and condemning them to Hell.What sin did the OP see the woman in ministry commit? So far, she hasn’t explained. She hasn’t even been back in three days, leading me to believe, sadly, that this has been bait.

Next, you fail to understand that we are all morally obligated to correct the sinner. In fact, failing to correct a sinner may itself be a sin of inaction. Only if we know for sure a sin has been committed.

Third, the OP described this person as one in a public ministry and this is in a position to set an example. One who is in public ministry, not one who has publically sinning, Where is the proof?

Finally and most importantly, we are talking about the worthiness of someone who is handling the the precious Body and Blood of Jesus. Such a person **must **be worthy to receive. And you are this woman in ministry’s confessor? or you also have a big crystal ball?

Canon law states that a person in manifest grave sin must be denied Holy Communion lest they receive it unworthily and further endanger their souls. Such a person should, by extension, not handle Holy Communion either. But first there must be proof. So far, no proof, only conjecture and hearsay and assumption. And we all know what “assume” does.
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CuriousInIL said:
I have never before written this sort of a response, but let me give it a shot.

Has no one else realized that the OP has a single post, three days ago, with no follow-up whatsoever? Yes. I pointed that out in my first post.

I think without any further contributions by the OP, this thread should just die away. I would be inclined to agree, except for those who feel they make a judgment based on no information other than that provided by the OP. I feel somehow the necessity to defend the woman, as I have been the victim of rumor and inuendo.

One point I do feel compelled to make. Without any further information, is anyone here ***certain ***that the women referenced by the OP is currently in a state of sin? Of course not, because one can never know this. Especially so here because of how little info there is. It is quite possible that what is written in the OP is all correct but that the woman at issue knows of her own sins and has sought confession and absolution. 👍

If all the sinners were prohibited from being Lectors or EMHCs (she cannot be a Eucharistic Minister) churches would be silent and with unending lines waiting in vain for someone to distribute the Eucharist.
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mercygate said:
Aside from the conspicuous absence of the OP, I disagree with the thrust of your statement. I know some of our EMHCs and readers have “creative” views about the faith, but most in my parish are deeply committed to the faith; they are knowledgeable and definitely living exemplary lives insofar as anybody can tell. The OP was concerned about scandal, not JUST the condition of the person’s soul. And scandal is a very real issue – as any Catholic who has been around since 2002 can attest. The difference in that, mercy dear, and this woman in ministry, is that the OP offered no proof of scandal or sin, only that she knew. I have been accused of a couple things I’ve never done in my time, and yet people have chosen to believe them over me, based on the fact of, “Well, everybody’s talking about it?” It didn’t make it true, it only meant there was gossip to the effect.
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Reasonand_faith said:
Yes do as Gabriel say: LIE to protect a sinner who WELL know that what she is doing. (insert raise of eye brown here); also that ommision is a LIE.

Let me explain:

You have a person who well know that she is a liar and an hypocrite as she is present herself to the community and tell that community to follow the commands, while not even following them herself.
You on the other hand, knows about it and do nothing? So you are lying by ommision and be an hypocrite yourself to your community and to the truth by keeping it to yourself and not doing anything.

What you should really do is the TRUE Christian way: GO to THAT person, tell her that you are aware and that she should step down immediately form her position, stop sinning, ask forgiveness to GOD and her husband, and repent.
If she refuse, she therefore is only present to her position to gain something. The whole community should therefore be made aware .

Please, do not tell me that a SINGLE Christian doesn’t know that rule especially with the position she occupy? So the theory of “she might not know”…please! let’s stop been ostrich here and deal with situation head on!

NO, DO NOT LIE, say it. EVEN if there is a “shortage”, you will NOT lie for an "administrative " reason or any other. All you really need is God and the good book, the rest is superficial.
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Sorry but I don’t understand what you’ve written. Where does it say to LIE to protect a sinner? Or are you accusing me of being a liar? We don’t have enough facts here. That’s why the OP needs to speak to the person first. To make sure they have the facts.
 
So much bad faith and pretenders here! How can you DO NOT KNOW?!?!?!??!
I cannot believe the among of FAKE I see through lines; therefore i will make it VERY simple:

FOR THE PERSON COMMITTING WILLINGLY THOSE SINS:
  1. Is a person in the middle of a divorce can have another relation and sex with that person? ANSWER: NO, it is a SIN
  2. If that person ALSO is in a position of power, does it make it worst? ANSWER; YES, as that person KNOWS what she is doing, tries to hide it and pretend to be chaste and following the commands of God, making it hypocrites and so much more.
  3. If this person is also a servant of God and supposed to preach HIS word, does that make it even worst? ANSWER: YES as that person not only LIE to people, to herself but to God HIMSELF.
  4. and IF you think that you did nothing, SHOW yourself to the whole community, confront your accusers in public, REVEAL it all.
What does THAT person should do?
  1. STOP THE SIN! you are STILL married!
  2. Beg GOD for forgiveness
  3. ask your husband for forgivness
  4. ask the community for forgiveness and reveal what you have done, repent and make amend.
  5. After the divorce is completed, make a 1 year chastity vows for what you have done.
AS FOR THE PERSON WHO KNOWS ABOUT IT:
  1. Go to that sinner and told them what you know, tell that person to confess , repent and make amend. Be proactive. Doing nothing in front of a sin, a crime or an injustice IS A SIN as you are promoting that sin and protecting that sinner.
There is NO MIDDLE GROUND people. Anything LESS, and you are a fake; your “well being”, your “ego”, your craving for material gain or status are greater then your faith.

Remember Jesus and the merchants of the temple…Those merchants may have some faith or some 'service" to God, but whatever they where or have, was less then their faith contrarily to what they pretent; and it angry God.

So liars , hypocrits, sinners of the flesh, sinners by greed, protector of sins or of sinners:

BEWARE! God really, really hate those; and there is NO middle ground or by-pass for those.

Gabriel:

“She may not aware she is causing a scandal and there may be a shortage of ministers). Then pray and wait.”

So in a word you just advised to following: SAY nothing, DO nothing, Protect the sinner. so LIE by ommision.

btw: remove that “St”. before your name: unless your Saint Gabriel himself; you know why…if not, you should not even post in here.

I know a Venezuelan woman who is doing it the same: she is about to pay for all of her sins toward God and men; and it will be revealed to all; but in her case, all of her stories where false, and she was only using the community for material gain and others.
 
If you don’t know for a fact what’s happening in this lady’s life, I say MYOB!!! What if you go to your priest and you’re WRONG!!!

We had something similar happen in our church last year, when we had a young EMHC and lector who everyone thought was single (and he was very attractive, so a lot of ladies had crushes on him.) He turned up to a Christmas party with his girlfriend on his arm. Someone asked the girl what church she attended, and she said she didn’t go to church at all.

Then a reader who had previously been the former leader of this young man’s fan club got BUSY with the gossip about him. I thought it was silly to expect a very nice young man of about 27 or 28 NOT to have a girlfriend(!!!) but this woman was SCANDALIZED that he might be having sex outside of marriage and didn’t she tell everyone she knew how scandalized she was, too. I thought the EMHC might have chosen a Catholic girl but otherwise didn’t think it was scandalous at all. It got to where this woman was really giving herself a bad reputation with all her gossiping about not just him but others as well.

Last I heard, that EMHC and his girlfriend were engaged and she was going to Mass with him some of the time. 👍

And that reader is still gossiping her little heart out. I know people who don’t want to talk to her anymore lest they become the next target for her rumor mill! :eek:
 
Excuse me Reasonand faith, but you should not attack St. Gabriel, or anybody else We are all entitled to opinion on CAF. Further, for you to call those of us who do not agree that the Original Poster should bring this to her pastor without proof liars, fakers and hypocrites is unconscionable.

I am having a great deal of trouble understanding you. What does a woman in Venezeula have to do with the Original Poster’s charge against a woman in her congregation, for whom she has no proof of what she is accused of doing?
 
Jaden(name removed by moderator) said:
If you don’t know for a fact what’s happening in this lady’s life, I say MYOB!!! What if you go to your priest and you’re WRONG!!!

We had something similar happen in our church last year, when we had a young EMHC and lector who everyone thought was single (and he was very attractive, so a lot of ladies had crushes on him.) He turned up to a Christmas party with his girlfriend on his arm. Someone asked the girl what church she attended, and she said she didn’t go to church at all.

Then a reader who had previously been the former leader of this young man’s fan club got BUSY with the gossip about him. I thought it was silly to expect a very nice young man of about 27 or 28 NOT to have a girlfriend(!!!) but this woman was SCANDALIZED that he might be having sex outside of marriage and didn’t she tell everyone she knew how scandalized she was, too. I thought the EMHC might have chosen a Catholic girl but otherwise didn’t think it was scandalous at all. It got to where this woman was really giving herself a bad reputation with all her gossiping about not just him but others as well.

Last I heard, that EMHC and his girlfriend were engaged and she was going to Mass with him some of the time. 👍

And that reader is still gossiping her little heart out. I know people who don’t want to talk to her anymore lest they become the next target for her rumor mill! :eek:
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While I suggested possibly talking with the priest about her suspicions, I actually retract that post. My suggestion was meant to be in private, and a priest could gently and tactfully counsel the EEM, but really, if one doesn’t know for certain, it’s not anyone’s business. But I agree with your post JM. And-- Praying for the EEM is definitely the best advice.🙂
 
Jaden(name removed by moderator) said:
Last I heard, that EMHC and his girlfriend were engaged and she was going to Mass with him some of the time. 👍

And that reader is still gossiping her little heart out. I know people who don’t want to talk to her anymore lest they become the next target for her rumor mill! :eek:
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That is good to know.

Without going into too many details (in fact, none of them), I am the victim of gossip and detraction as well; not once, but several times in my life. Because the person who was spreading the rumor kept saying it, everybody believed him (Yes, it was a man). It didn’t make it true, but the wrong people believed him. It took 20 years to finally make it clear that I had not done what this person said I did.
 
Regarding the OP… certainly she is committing a sin, as extramarital intercourse is a violation of Church teachings. However, I do not think that it would be wise to call her out, so to speak, for we are all sinners and she will repent in her own time. Plus, I think that your speaking up, however well-intended it may be, could prove injurious to the general cohesiveness of the Church family. Better, I should think, to maintain a modicum of peacefulness than to be scrupulous.
 
I read some of the replies in the first page and it seems that none of them support you.

What you decide at this moment ?

One thing I got from other persons replies is that, you didn’t see anything but all is that from your Guess. There maybe chances that all of your assumptions are wrong…

Because you are thinking that situation lead to sex because of the problems of your mind…

The Best thing that you can do now is to give the lady and the man to God’s hand. Then you pray for them well… And things will get changed and you will also get bless during this prayer.

I am sorry if you can’t accept me. Because I am writing this from my experience, my view and our culture.
 
The initiator of this thread has not been back to the site since she posted this question. It’s three days now.
 
Steeltemplar said:
Perhaps you should practice what you preach. Do you think that condemning her for being rightfully scandalized is not self-righteous?

The fact of the matter is that there is no mention how she knows or what she knows. Her question is simply whether or not it is a matter the Priest should know about. And the answer is, yes, it is.

Notice that she did not condemn the woman herself, but merely the sinful actions.

I do not think that it is right or good to try to silence someone who is seeking the moral good of their parish or community with the cry of “self-righteous!” or of “uncharitable!”. People on this forum seem to use such terms like weapons sometimes. It is ironic and unfortunate.

Well, I commend the OP for actually caring about her parish community.
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I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church.

Thank you
 
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Lady_with_quest:
Thank you
 
Lady_with_quest said:
I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church.

Thank you
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Okay, well then, now we have a bit more information, so that helps tremendously. I’d say go to your priest with this information. This woman should not be a minister of the Eucharist since she is actively engaged in mortal sin. Tell your priest and leave it to him to handle it. Then pray, pray and pray some more for the woman and the man engaged in giving scandal and possibly adultery (though it is not our place to judge). Also pray for the priest since he is going to be in the middle of a difficult situation and it is the charitable thing to do to pray for all involved. Hopefully, your priest will have the strength and courage to do what is necessary to stop this insult against our Lord.
 
Lady_with_quest said:
I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church.

Thank you
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**Here is what you know for a fact:

1)this woman has a man stay the night with her.

2)she is a minister of the Eucharist.

We are called to be charitable to all of our brothers and sisters… since I only know the info you have provided, I would not call anything “fact” yet. What if the man spending the night is a relative? Could be a good friend. Could be her boyfriend and they may be chaste. Unless you have a peephole into her bedroom you simply cannot know for a fact.

The first step is being honest with yourself and others about what you really** do know, not just what you suspect.

Then you need to speak with your priest and possibly confess to assuming the worst about one of your sisters in Christ. If you told anyone else about this in real life then you are in serious sin yourself. People’s reputations are nothing to mess around lightly with.
**
If you are really worried about this then you need to discreetly bring it up to your parish priest and allow him to handle it as he sees fit.

**
 
Feanaro_s_Wife said:
**Here is what you know for a fact:

1)this woman has a man stay the night with her.

2)she is a minister of the Eucharist.

We are called to be charitable to all of our brothers and sisters… since I only know the info you have provided, I would not call anything “fact” yet. What if the man spending the night is a relative? Could be a good friend. Could be her boyfriend and they may be chaste. Unless you have a peephole into her bedroom you simply cannot know for a fact.

The first step is being honest with yourself and others about what you really** do know, not just what you suspect.

Then you need to speak with your priest and possibly confess to assuming the worst about one of your sisters in Christ. If you told anyone else about this in real life then you are in serious sin yourself. People’s reputations are nothing to mess around lightly with.
**
If you are really worried about this then you need to discreetly bring it up to your parish priest and allow him to handle it as he sees fit.

**
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To: Lady with Quest
I am starting to see these points here & looking @ both sides of this coin.
  1. Yes, finding out whether they’re in a boyfriend/girlfriend realtionship or relatives would be a first step. & No, we can’t have a peep hole to find out.
  2. Looking @ the fact that co-habitation is not acceptable before marriage. Unless you have it approved by a Priest for certain circumstances and are to live as “BROTHER & SISTERS.”
  3. If she doen’t live upto any of these criteria, then yes definitely write everything down and present it to a Priest.
I understand the situation and the confusion it brings, & I will definitely keep you in my prayers. 0-{: }{}

Ask St. Michael & the Holy Spirit to shield you until the matter is resolved.

For All~ Have a Good & Godly Sunday! ☼♫☼

Phyllis @};-
 
Lady_with_quest said:
I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church.

Thank you
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Dear Lady with Quest,

One suggestion would be, after your emotions have settled a little, go to her let her know of your concerns that you see her with a significant other and as a neighbor, hope she’s living appropriately in accordance with her status as an Extra Ordinary Eucharistic Minister. Then, it would be upto to her to respond and clarify or rectify the situation.

May Christ BE with you under this tyring time when you are only concered for someone else’s walfare. ((((HUGS))))

I hope this helps! @};-

Phyllis @};-
 
PhyllisA said:
Dear Lady with Quest,

One suggestion would be, after your emotions have settled a little, go to her let her know of your concerns that you see her with a significant other and as a neighbor, hope she’s living appropriately in accordance with her status as an Extra Ordinary Eucharistic Minister. Then, it would be upto to her to respond and clarify or rectify the situation.

May Christ BE with you under this tyring time when you are only concered for someone else’s walfare. ((((HUGS))))

I hope this helps! @};-

Phyllis @};-
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I think this is the best advice. The OP has provided more concrete evidence, certainly, but it has been correctly pointed out that perhaps the man staying with her is not a sexual partner. Is it possible that her favorite brother is coming to stay with her on weekends while she goes through her divorce? Of course I’ve read on these boards that adult siblings should not share residences due to scandal, and I guess this situation would be a prime example (not saying that I agree with the idea that siblings cannot live together, but I guess this is what that poster meant).

OP- you might want to charitably and calmly approach this woman when she is alone and comment that you’ve noticed that she has a visitor every weekend and ask if everything is okay. Maybe she’ll respond that her brother has been kind enough to keep her company during these hard times. If so, end of story. Maybe she’ll unfortunately respond that it’s her new boyfriend. At that point you are free to remind her of her obligations. If you choose to go to the pastor, once you’ve left it in his hands then you’ve done your duty. If he chooses to ignore it, that is not your fault but do not start a smear campaign against the woman. God knows the truth and it’s not everyone else’s business.
 
SeekerJen said:
I think this is the best advice. The OP has provided more concrete evidence, certainly, but it has been correctly pointed out that perhaps the man staying with her is not a sexual partner. Is it possible that her favorite brother is coming to stay with her on weekends while she goes through her divorce? Of course I’ve read on these boards that adult siblings should not share residences due to scandal, and I guess this situation would be a prime example (not saying that I agree with the idea that siblings cannot live together, but I guess this is what that poster meant).

OP- you might want to charitably and calmly approach this woman when she is alone and comment that you’ve noticed that she has a visitor every weekend and ask if everything is okay. Maybe she’ll respond that her brother has been kind enough to keep her company during these hard times. If so, end of story. Maybe she’ll unfortunately respond that it’s her new boyfriend. At that point you are free to remind her of her obligations. If you choose to go to the pastor, once you’ve left it in his hands then you’ve done your duty. If he chooses to ignore it, that is not your fault but do not start a smear campaign against the woman. God knows the truth and it’s not everyone else’s business.
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THX for the healing presence of + GOD +

I hope the OP feels his presence just as well.

Off to St. Charles Mass here in OKC God Bless ALL

Phyllis @};-
 
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