Having sex outside of marriage

[Podo2005]

Hello,

There is a lady in our church that is a Lector and a Eucharist Minister. She is in the middle of a divorce and is also having sex with a member in the church. Is this ok? Should she be called down from the positions I mentioned above? Should I talk to the priest about this and inform him of what is going on? I mean she gives out Holy Communion! and is a Lector! Is she sinning?

Thank you

Who are you to judge this woman and how do you know that she is having sex with someone else in the church?

 

[Podo2005]

I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church.

Thank you

Give me a break, why not? First of all you dont know if shes actually doing your passing a judgement on her, 2nd of all do you think you’re perfect that you cant recieve from another sinner ( who may or may not be doing what you suspect). I’d suggest you start looking at YOURSELF and worry about YOUR sins before placing a judgement on other people.

 

[Podo2005]

Okay, well then, now we have a bit more information, so that helps tremendously. I’d say go to your priest with this information. This woman should not be a minister of the Eucharist since she is actively engaged in mortal sin. Tell your priest and leave it to him to handle it. Then pray, pray and pray some more for the woman and the man engaged in giving scandal and possibly adultery (though it is not our place to judge). Also pray for the priest since he is going to be in the middle of a difficult situation and it is the charitable thing to do to pray for all involved. Hopefully, your priest will have the strength and courage to do what is necessary to stop this insult against our Lord.

Another one passing judgement, HOW DO YOU POSSIBLY KNOW IF SHE’s IN MORTAL SIN? You can’t know! You don’t know if the woman has sufficient knowledge or is commiting the sin with deliberate consent. Not to mention the fact that you dont even know if shes sinning in the first place ( as its only a suspicion…)

 

[SwizzleStick]

Another one passing judgement, HOW DO YOU POSSIBLY KNOW IF SHE’s IN MORTAL SIN? You can’t know! You don’t know if the woman has sufficient knowledge or is commiting the sin with deliberate consent. Not to mention the fact that you dont even know if shes sinning in the first place ( as its only a suspicion…)

I was referring to giving scandal, which I do believe is a mortal sin (please feel free to correct me), not the sin of adultery or fornication because I agree we cannot know. I said in my first post (#32 in this thread) AND the one above that we are not to judge THAT, but appearances DO matter to a Catholic (giving scandal). That is all I was referring to, so please calm down.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Another one passing judgement, HOW DO YOU POSSIBLY KNOW IF SHE’s IN MORTAL SIN? You can’t know! You don’t know if the woman has sufficient knowledge or is commiting the sin with deliberate consent. Not to mention the fact that you dont even know if shes sinning in the first place ( as its only a suspicion…)

Actually, Podo2005, after reflection, I see that you are correct. She may be guilty of giving scandal, but in order for it to be a mortal sin, she would have to be aware that it is serious matter, know that giving scandal is grave sin, and still fully consent. (Realize that appearances DO matter and not care anyway). You are right that none of us can know if all of these individual criterion are present. My apologies.

 

[PhyllisA]

Actually, Podo2005, after reflection, I see that you are correct. She may be guilty of giving scandal, but in order for it to be a mortal sin, she would have to be aware that it is serious matter, know that giving scandal is grave sin, and still fully consent. (Realize that appearances DO matter and not care anyway). You are right that none of us can know if all of these individual criterion are present. My apologies.

0-{: }{} <—Praying Hands

Now please don’t give up that easy!

I mean, this is the Last Supper of our Saviour Jesus Christ, & yes i know he welcomes all sinners. I’ve been to Mass twice today.

But …

We do know that the OP is witnessing something that does look suspicious and she does know for a fact that she’s an Extra Ordinary Eucharistic Minister. So, wouldn’t you rather know that she is or is not in fact distributing the Eucharist in good faith?

If you ask me, how would it be a scandal coming to facts and a solution to this suspicious situation?

I would still suggest the following …

1. Yes, finding out whether they’re in a boyfriend/girlfriend realtionship or relatives would be a first step. & No, we can’t have a peep hole to find out.

1. Looking @ the fact that co-habitation is not acceptable before marriage. Unless you have it approved by a Priest for certain circumstances and are to live as “BROTHER & SISTERS.”

1. If she doen’t live upto any of these criteria, then yes definitely write everything down and present it to a Priest

THX … Phyllis @};-

 

[kage_ar]

Christ gave instructions to the Apostles how to handle such disputes within the Church. I would advise you to follow this guide.

Matthew 18

15 "If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16 If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

 

[PhyllisA]

Christ gave instructions to the Apostles how to handle such disputes within the Church. I would advise you to follow this guide.

Matthew 18

15 "If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16 If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Thank You, I was trying to look this scripture up,
but couldn’t find it.

God Bless You & AMEN! 0-{: }{}

Phyllis @};-

 

[SwizzleStick]

Now please don’t give up that easy!

I mean, this is the Last Supper of our Saviour Jesus Christ, & yes i know he welcomes all sinners. I’ve been to Mass twice today.

But …

Not to worry, I just was responding to the idea of judging and possibly being wrong. I still think some action MUST be taken, but now am not sure what. Talking to the woman first might be the most charitable approach, but might not produce results. Perhaps the OP should just seek the counsel of her priest, tell him she is troubled and present the reasons, tell him what she KNOWS (not guesses, just what she KNOWS for a fact, that she sees a man as a weekend guest of the lady on a regular basis, period) and why this troubles her. Let the priest take the lead. And, of course, pray for all involved.

 

[Katie1723]

I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church.

Thank you

Unless you are in their bedroom and see them having sex, the only FACT you have is that there is a man in her home.

Kathy

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I do know for certain, and that it is FACT. This woman is a minister of the Euchrist. This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything? All it tells me is that she has a male houseguest. It could be anybody.

I do not want her giving me the Blood of Christ or even blessing me. Then go to another communion line. Jesus said go and sin no more…she is willfully sinning and still holding that positon on the church. You saw her and this male houseguest willfully sinning?

You know you can still volunteer to be an EMHC, even if she is one as well. All you have to is volunteer and take the classes. Then you can distribute the Eucharist at Mass, and have a position in the parish as well.

My opinion- and you did ask for it- you will not be happy until you make an appointment with your priest, accuse this woman of sexual sin, and make the whole thing into a brouhaha. You seem to want an approval to do something that most cannot give. You’re going to do what you do. Just don’t expect me to be one of the participants in your “ain’t it awful” without something a little more concrete as evidence.

Thank you

 

[funnyyetsavvy]

Ummmmm, my brother visited for three weeks last December on leave from the Army. He stayed at my house. Perhaps you would have thought I was living with a man?

If you didn’t live where you do, you wouldn’t know these things, right? I understand you’re concerns, but they are best discussed with a priest, lest it appear like gossip.

 

[Tigg]

I think it’s best for people to mind their own business in this regard. People undergoing divorce (or facing the death of a partner) are often in a terrible emotional states and the need for support can cause them to do all kinds of things they might not otherwise do.

Although I’m sure churches would like to interfere, when churches enter bedrooms this could be damaging and drive more people away from churches than the wrongdoing itself. Sexual behaviour is considered extremely private by most people and they don’t want churches interfering - or snooping in the bedrooms like spies, so to speak.
God knows the mind of the woman as well as her partner and he alone should judge. Remember, Jesus forgave a prostitute. He knew her mind and the reasons she did what she did. No one else in the world can honestly say they know what’s on another person’s mind or why they behave in the ways they do.

---

---

I would like to respond to your post as I emphasized above. Our church is not the government. Christ has commissioned His church and the Magisterium to guide and counsel souls for their eternal salvation. This commission cannot “exclude” the bedrooms as you state above. Our life, in its entirety must be lived as a holy, blameless one. The 6th and 9th commandments deal with the “bedroom issue.” Perhaps I’ve misunderstood what you wrote.

 

[CapaxDei]

Hello,

There is a lady in our church that is a Lector and a Eucharist Minister. She is in the middle of a divorce and is also having sex with a member in the church. Is this ok? Should she be called down from the positions I mentioned above? Should I talk to the priest about this and inform him of what is going on? I mean she gives out Holy Communion! and is a Lector! Is she sinning?

Thank you

1. She’s not a "Eucharistic Minister,’ since she is not a priest. She is an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, which is not the same thing.
2. She is not a Lector. Lector is an instituted ministry reserved to men. I doubt you have any formally instituted lectors in your parish other than priests and deacons.
3. Candidly, this is not your concern.

 

[JadensMom]

This woman lives two doors down from me and her boyfriend stays the weekend with her, yes, he stays all weekend, night and day. Does that tell you anything?

That perhaps you should take down the security cameras that you apparently have aimed at this lady’s front and back doors before she sues you for violating her privacy.

I always find that knitting and crocheting are good ways to pass the time when I’m bored. Right now I’m making a cute little sailor’s cap for my son from navy-blue yarn.

Of course I’ve read on these boards that adult siblings should not share residences due to scandal, and I guess this situation would be a prime example (not saying that I agree with the idea that siblings cannot live together, but I guess this is what that poster meant).

Why on earth is it scandalous to live with a sibling, for heaven’s sake? My husband shared a house with his two sisters for years while he was in college. How much do you want to bet that someone would find something scandalous in it if the two girls were living alone? I think the kind of folk who would imagine two siblings living together must be committing incest could really benefit from discovering the joys of knitting if you know what I mean!

OP- you might want to charitably and calmly approach this woman when she is alone and comment that you’ve noticed that she has a visitor every weekend and ask if everything is okay.

I for one would find that creepy as anything and wonder why the heck she was watching me so closely. I’d be scared that she was stalking me or something. Yikes!

I still think minding your own business is the best policy. Remember that part of why scandal happens is because people choose to be scandalized. You can’t know if this fellow is staying all weekend unless you’re watching this woman’s home more closely than is really healthy.

If you object that strongly to receiving the Sacrament from her, fine, don’t do it. But remember what Christ said about casting the first stone…!!!

ETA: Honestly, I think that the higher and higher and higher we set the bar for NON-scandalous behavior amongst our fellow Catholics (Omigoodness, two siblings in the same house! An adult man seen going into an adult woman’s house! SCANDAL!!1!) the more we discourage others and make ourselves look forbidding and judgmental as a faith. If I had the self-appointed Parish Morals Police watching my every move for a juicy tidbit of real or imagined scandal 24/7, I’d be tempted to say the heck with it, I’m just too flawed to even try to be Catholic, and just do whatever I wanted.

But that’s just my two cents. I could be wrong!

 

[sanctamaria17]

MYOB and pray about it. Unless you’re keeping strict watch on her, you have no idea and bringing it up would only embarrass the woman and make her wonder if she’s being stalked.

If you’re so scandalized, you’re not obligated to take Holy Communion from her. But don’t bring it up to anyone, you don’t know.

I went to visit friends of mine a couple weekends ago. I didn’t know if I’d have a place to stay (turns out, one of my girl friends had room at her place) and one of my guy friends offered to come and get me and let me crash at his place if worse came to worse. I bet people would think that other activities were going on. But really, is it scandal to shelter a friend, regardless of gender? I’d rather stay at the house of a really kind, if male, friend of mine (who’s actually very Catholic and protective of me to begin with) than on the streets for a night. And it would have been for a weekend. It didn’t come to that, but if it did, I can assure you that nothing of a sexual nature would have happened and I’d be guarding my modesty (I would have slept in a different room, changed in the bathroom, etc.) He’s like my big brother and in NO WAY would he EVEN SUGGEST we do anything like that!! I’d be uber scandalized if someone even suggested that or attacked either his or my character like that.

I hate it when people judge others like that. There’s another sin and it’s called gossip.

 

[Lady_with_quest]

Give me a break, why not? First of all you dont know if shes actually doing your passing a judgement on her, 2nd of all do you think you’re perfect that you cant recieve from another sinner ( who may or may not be doing what you suspect). I’d suggest you start looking at YOURSELF and worry about YOUR sins before placing a judgement on other people.

 

[Lady_with_quest]

Lady_with_quest:
You see, I do know what I say is fact. It is my sister who is commiting this sin in my own home. Now, don’t judge ME so quickly!

 

[JadensMom]

You see, I do know what I say is fact. It is my sister who is commiting this sin in my own home. Now, don’t judge ME so quickly!

Ummm, okay. And you can’t just talk to your own sister about her life without involving a priest? A minute ago, you said this was going on two doors down – now it’s in your home?

If my sister was going through a divorce and she was clearly very unhappy (to the point of committing a sin of fornication) I’d be talking to HER, not some strangers on a message board.

But you know, the rate at which these facts keep changing for maximum scandalous effect, I’m starting to wonder if maybe this is a troll…? The facts are just changing SO fast and furiously. Besides, what do you want us to say? That your sister is some kind of scarlet woman beyond redemption and it’s perfectly okay for you to condemn her?