He fell to porn AGAIN!

[yessisan]

Not to sidetrack the OP’s issues, but this is a very good post and makes a lot of sense…

Yes, I know it makes sense. I studied this in college while getting my Psych degree. I was going to say Dameedna sounded like on of my Psych teachers.

I studied all of this in cognitive psych how the brain programs itself according to what its been conditioned to.

Well, if he were just up to talking to someone about this particular problem… I just don’t know.

Anywho, I’ve tried both the calm and the angry way of talking before, and I know I get somewhere when I talked to him calmly.

I tried talking to him about this when we spoke last night, but he is ashamed and cannot tell me why he does it. He did say that it has nothing to do with me, and that he hadn’t done it in a long time, it’s just that he feel again since he has been alone for so long. He tried reminding me he’s had this problem from way before we met and that he’s tried hard to kick the habit/addiction, and I know he didn’t look at it for almost a yr. I guess I get better results when I speak to him calmly. I did remind him that the porn hurts me a lot, and that I feel betrayed every time, I told him about what Jesus said regarding lust… As the men and Jess have told me here, it’s hard to kick the habit/addiction and if we were to ever fix things between us, it’d be something I’ll have to live with since he will fall again.

 

[GraceDK]

As the men and Jess have told me here, it’s hard to kick the habit/addiction and if we were to ever fix things between us, it’d be something I’ll have to live with since he will fall again.

I shudder at your words Yessi, I really do. To think of a woman who says: “I have to live with my husband’s porn addiction since he will fall again “shrug”” just makes me speechless.
… It’s not my business for sure… all I can state for a fact is that we as women sure can be different in the way we think and feel.

But sure you are right in a way. People many times live up to
our bad expectations:
Say: “I expect you to fall again”, and he most probably will.

 

[yessisan]

I shudder at your words Yessi, I really do. To think of a woman who says: “I have to live with my husband’s porn addiction since he will fall again “shrug”” just makes me speechless.
… It’s not my business for sure… all I can state for a fact is that we as women sure can be different in the way we think and feel.

But sure you are right in a way. People many times live up to
our bad expectations:
Say: “I expect you to fall again”, and he most probably will.

It’s not what I want, but I know that’s what’s going to happen, he told me himself that he’s going to try not to but he can’t promise he won’t fall for it again. It’s been 2 yrs and I’ve found it 5 times (but he’s looked more than 5 times). I’m not shrugging my shoudlers because I say, oh well, I put that smiley because it’s something I can’t control.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I shudder at your words Yessi, I really do. To think of a woman who says: “I have to live with my husband’s porn addiction since he will fall again “shrug”” just makes me speechless.
… It’s not my business for sure… all I can state for a fact is that we as women sure can be different in the way we think and feel.

But sure you are right in a way. People many times live up to
our bad expectations:
Say: “I expect you to fall again”, and he most probably will.

**I don’t think she was saying that exactly…correct me if I’m wrong Yessi…

I think she is acknowledging that we are all human and due to our fallen natures we all have our struggles/crosses to bear. I don’t think she means that he will fall again forever, just until he can kick the habit (which could take a long time and entail many more falls). I think that if she can see him really trying to end this sinful habit once and for all she will be able to put up with the times he falls.**

 

[yessisan]

I don’t think she was saying that exactly…correct me if I’m wrong Yessi…

I think she is acknowledging that we are all human and due to our fallen natures we all have our struggles/crosses to bear. I don’t think she means that he will fall again forever, just until he can kick the habit (which could take a long time and entail many more falls). I think that if she can see him really trying to end this sinful habit once and for all she will be able to put up with the times he falls.

Well said! See? I told you my words never come out the way I want them to.

 

[GraceDK]

Sorry fellow sisters…
I guess I just believe in the carrot-at-the-end method… to make sure the person actually knows he might loose everything he has which is of worth, (and yessian you seem like a real good woman) if he does not seriously try to overcome this infidelity of his, could be usefull in my perspective because this is also what I have seen… that there is a hidden rule where you get what you demand. That includes demanding anwers when you ask him what is going on with this…

You may ask yourself how much slack he would offer you in turn if he knew you were masturbating looking at naked men…
I am all for second chances… I just wonder where the line is… What if a man comes and tells his wife he is addicted to homosexual activities or visiting prostitutes? Where is the line in a marriage for what kind of abusive behaviours are acceptable? And could it be that since men are usually the ones with the porn-problem its made into something semi-acceptable whereas men would never ever tolerate such things from their wives… I am wondering and this thread gets me into more wondering…

I am all for second chances as I said, provided you have the strength… what worries me is that some woman
can in fact be so “Christian” and so worn down because of being treated badly that they loose the sight of their right to demand dignity as women, wives and mothers…
I read about a woman who was so “pious and humble” she ended up getting shot by her husband who had beaten her for years… and the Catholic group that witnessed the story wrote it as a good and pious example… I shuddered at their lack of sense of wrong and right!
The fear is probably in my bones since I have seen a few women who were really treated badly and without respect so long that they thought they were just not worth much and that setting higher standards would be useless.

oh… I probably should stop posting here… the situation with Yessisan is so attrocious to me that I have a difficulty being objective and dispassionate as some of you who are more mature…
I just think… if you were my daughter, mother, or sister I’d come over and tell your man that he better start acting like a husband in holy matrimony…

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Dameedna’s post is spot-on. I’ve read that porn fires up the same brain receptors that respond to cocaine and heroin addiction. And thus it must be dealt with as seriously as those two addictions. No half-hearted “Well, I fell.”

Yessi’s bigger question is whether she really wants to stay and reproduce with a man who has his issues. One doesn’t like to think of it, but the question should always be in the back of your mind: “If I had children with this man and something happened to me and I died, would I feel comfortable with this man and his family raising my children in my absence? Would he be good for their emotional and physical well-being? Would I trust him to guide their immortal souls if I was not there to guide them?”

When I married I thought I knew the answer to this. My xh is eerily similar to what Yessi describes. I am now horrified at the idea he would ever be their only parent. His issues are why I got an annulment.

I’m praying for you, Yessi, that you see clearly whenever you decide. Do not pick a man who is a work in progress. His final outcome is out of your control. By the time a man marries, he should have his major issues under control so that he can effectively lead a family to God.

 

[yessisan]

Grace, I understand your point exactly but as far as I know, he isn’t masturbating when he sees these images. He has said he doesn’t, and I kind of believe it since he has voiced before what he thinks about the evils of masturbation.

If you were in my place, you’d be in between a sword and a wall. I’m very angry but if he’s really trying to not do it (and admit it., we all do things we’re not supposed to, that’s why we’re sinners and often we fall for the same sins over and over again), what can I do?

I have yelled at him for that, I have left the house when I found those things, I have been calm and talked to him about it. It’s not a physical thing and I cannot compare it to homesexual activities as you did.

I don’t know, I guess I’m done talking about this since it takes me nowhere. If I’m angry at him, I get told off. If I try to be understanding, I’m told off. I’m not here to please anyone. I just wanted to get opinions on how to handle this and I got great answers, so I’m going to ask the Mods to close this thread because it’s going nowhere whith me trying to explain myself.

Thank you all for the responses, they have helped tremendously in understanding on how to handle this.

 

[yessisan]

Dameedna’s post is spot-on. I’ve read that porn fires up the same brain receptors that respond to cocaine and heroin addiction. And thus it must be dealt with as seriously as those two addictions. No half-hearted “Well, I fell.”

Yessi’s bigger question is whether she really wants to stay and reproduce with a man who has his issues. One doesn’t like to think of it, but the question should always be in the back of your mind: “If I had children with this man and something happened to me and I died, would I feel comfortable with this man and his family raising my children in my absence? Would he be good for their emotional and physical well-being? Would I trust him to guide their immortal souls if I was not there to guide them?”

When I married I thought I knew the answer to this. My xh is eerily similar to what Yessi describes. I am now horrified at the idea he would ever be their only parent. His issues are why I got an annulment.

I’m praying for you, Yessi, that you see clearly whenever you decide. Do not pick a man who is a work in progress. His final outcome is out of your control. By the time a man marries, he should have his major issues under control so that he can effectively lead a family to God.

Thanks for this Liberanosamalo. But I cannot turn my back on him because of the porn. If anything, it’d be for the other things that have happened. I have told him off and he has promised to try to not fall. At least he is trying.

But of course I wouldn’t want children being raised with a man like this. Being why we have no children, except for our little one in Heaven.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Dear Yessi,
your husband has no hope in his life. He is enslaved to that cult his family is a part of—unwillingly enslaved in my opinion—and he has no God or angels or hope to help him out of the depths of sin. How can he break an addiction entirely on his own? The issue here is not porn or your marital problems. The issue is with his not being able to break free of Jehovah’s Witnesses. When did his family become involved with them–what age was he? Could he be among the 43,000 unreported sexually abused by JWs? Even without sexual abuse, JWs are spiritually abusive. Your husband is a victim. He needs to seek counseling from someone who can give him tools to break free of a cult, everything else will fall into place. He cannot trust any other religion until he is free of the one that keeps him trapped in darkness and pain.

 

[yessisan]

Dear Yessi,
your husband has no hope in his life. He is enslaved to that cult his family is a part of—unwillingly enslaved in my opinion—and he has no God or angels or hope to help him out of the depths of sin. How can he break an addiction entirely on his own? The issue here is not porn or your marital problems. The issue is with his not being able to break free of Jehovah’s Witnesses. When did his family become involved with them–what age was he? Could he be among the 43,000 unreported sexually abused by JWs? Even without sexual abuse, JWs are spiritually abusive. Your husband is a victim. He needs to seek counseling from someone who can give him tools to break free of a cult, everything else will fall into place. He cannot trust any other religion until he is free of the one that keeps him trapped in darkness and pain.

Hi Ravin! Haven’t seen you in a while…

He was introduced to the JWs in 1990 in Mexico. If there had been any sexual abuse he’d tell me, I know that. I don’t think his religion has anything to do with the porn since JWs condemn porn as well, even more so than Catholics do (from what I know of the yr I attended the meetings). I mean, you tell me, sadly you’ve been part of them, so you know more than I do in that sense.

But talking about spiritual abuse, then, yes, he’s been through that. Remember when he was being reinstated? I hated the way he was treated by those people.

ETA: I just re-read your post… when it comes to not having hope of breaking away from that sin, you’re right. He doesn’t have “heavenly” hope, so why should he break away? You actually make a good point there Ravyn. That hadn’t crossed my mind at all.

 

[FCEGM]

Dear Yessi,
your husband has no hope in his life. He is enslaved to that cult his family is a part of—unwillingly enslaved in my opinion—and he has no God or angels or hope to help him out of the depths of sin. How can he break an addiction entirely on his own? The issue here is not porn or your marital problems. The issue is with his not being able to break free of Jehovah’s Witnesses. When did his family become involved with them–what age was he? Could he be among the 43,000 unreported sexually abused by JWs? Even without sexual abuse, JWs are spiritually abusive. Your husband is a victim. He needs to seek counseling from someone who can give him tools to break free of a cult, everything else will fall into place. He cannot trust any other religion until he is free of the one that keeps him trapped in darkness and pain.

This is spot-on advice, Ravyn.

 

[Milliardo]

I studied all of this in cognitive psych how the brain programs itself according to what its been conditioned to

That is correct, that is why it’s something he will have a hard time trying to get himself out of. Just understand him if he ever falls for it again. At least he is trying not to see porn…

it’s just that he feel again since he has been alone for so long.

Ah, now it seems he is trying to tell you something. Ask him why he feels alone for so long. There is something about being together, yet feeling alone. Perhaps there’s something he is bothered with that he likes to share, but can’t do it. He turns then to porn as his outlet for this. Porn is an outlet for stress, and he seems to be stressed about something. Ask him what that is, and then work it out from there.

As the men and Jess have told me here, it’s hard to kick the habit/addiction and if we were to ever fix things between us, it’d be something I’ll have to live with since he will fall again.

Yes, I think it will be part of your life, whether you like it or not. Just see to it he makes an effort not to look at porn. Appreciate his efforts, and help him up when he falls again. IMO porn would be better than him actually philandering about–that’s one thing to be thankful for. It would be much worse if you learned he’s somewhere with another woman. At least with porn the only thing he’s with are the pictures (and video if he has them).

 

[tc2011]

I forgot to add something…

When he does this, it makes me feel like I’m not woman enough for him… I am sick and tired of trying to compete against the computer and porn.

His sins are his fault. Please do not think that a defect in him means there’s something wrong with you.

Focus on you doing the right thing and living your life properly, because ultimately that’s what you can control; in the end you can’t control him or anyone else.

Surrender him to God in prayer, and explain to him that you have to be able to trust him, and that you will trust him regardless. Don’t search through his browsing logs, perhaps even make him sign in to his own account that you can’t access. If he doesn’t think he has a problem, it won’t matter what you do. He has to want to fix the problem, and you have to trust that God will give him the grace to want that, and the grace to be a man and take responsibility for his own life. In other words, he can’t be a man if someone else is trying to be a man for him.

And don’t underestimate the damage done by false accusations and the constant shadow of suspicion. If, even while doing the right thing, he still gets accused of messing up, what’s the point?

In the 1930s, orphans with normal speech patterns were told things like “only children who stutter fidget in their seats like you do.” The orphans soon began to stutter:

In her thesis, Tudor described 9-year-old Elizabeth… In their first session, the girl fidgeted. “I told her that all stutterers wriggled around like that,” Tudor wrote. A month later, the girl “covered her face with a book” when she repeated words. At their fourth meeting, she put her hands over her mouth and said, “I can’t stop that stuttering.”

Someone who may be addicted to pornography/sexual perversion is going to be emotionally weakened and immature, and somewhat vulnerable to the “power of suggestion” and “self-fulfilling prophecy” of false accusations.

So, those are some things to consider if you really want to help him in the best way possible.

But this may not be realistic (except for the false accusations, avoid those like the plague). Since he probably has something of an addiction, you might take some cues from alcoholics anonymous.

Perhaps encourage him to go to a counselor. Maybe stage an “intervention.”

Others have mentioned that he needs hope, since he may be somewhat despairing. Trusting him (i.e., not looking over his shoulder, demonstrating to him that you’re won’t investigate him, etc.) and avoiding false accusations at all costs will go a long way toward helping him see that there is hope, I think.

EDIT: Sorry I haven’t read through the whole thread. Some of my comments might seem a little dated, but the main ideas are still the same.

 

[yessisan]

That is correct, that is why it’s something he will have a hard time trying to get himself out of. Just understand him if he ever falls for it again. At least he is trying not to see porn…

That is true.

Ah, now it seems he is trying to tell you something. Ask him why he feels alone for so long. There is something about being together, yet feeling alone. Perhaps there’s something he is bothered with that he likes to share, but can’t do it. He turns then to porn as his outlet for this. Porn is an outlet for stress, and he seems to be stressed about something. Ask him what that is, and then work it out from there.

We’re not living together, plus the times he has come to see me, I have not been here. My great uncle killed himself so I’ve been spending time with my family - taking my grandpa to see his siblings (it was his brother), taking my grandpa to the memorial service, taking my grandpa to the funeral… Those 3 times he tried to come and see me were the times he searched the internet for that… it’s not that I’m not paying attention to him. We’re not together right now since he’s working on his anger issues, and until those are resolved (if they ever are) we won’t live together.

Yes, I think it will be part of your life, whether you like it or not. Just see to it he makes an effort not to look at porn. Appreciate his efforts, and help him up when he falls again. IMO porn would be better than him actually philandering about–that’s one thing to be thankful for. It would be much worse if you learned he’s somewhere with another woman. At least with porn the only thing he’s with are the pictures (and video if he has them).

I do appreciate his efforts, but it still hurts like heck when I find it and he lies about it to my face. But yes, at least it’s just a screen and not with a woman somewhere else.

 

[Milliardo]

We’re not living together, plus the times he has come to see me, I have not been here. My great uncle killed himself so I’ve been spending time with my family - taking my grandpa to see his siblings (it was his brother), taking my grandpa to the memorial service, taking my grandpa to the funeral… Those 3 times he tried to come and see me were the times he searched the internet for that… it’s not that I’m not paying attention to him. We’re not together right now since he’s working on his anger issues, and until those are resolved (if they ever are) we won’t live together.

Ah, now it’s clear why he turns to porn. Of course, he will turn to porn since it’s his outlet for whatever sexual tensions he has. This is natural, especially for a man. I can see now why he is turning to porn, to let out that tension. I think you need to talk to him about it, and perhaps spend time with him as well (I won’t go into details about that, but you know what that should imply). That would ease his craving for porn, if not totally eliminate it. Spend time with him so he can forget porn.

 

[yessisan]

Ah, now it’s clear why he turns to porn. Of course, he will turn to porn since it’s his outlet for whatever sexual tensions he has. This is natural, especially for a man. I can see now why he is turning to porn, to let out that tension. I think you need to talk to him about it, and perhaps spend time with him as well (I won’t go into details about that, but you know what that should imply). That would ease his craving for porn, if not totally eliminate it. Spend time with him so he can forget porn.

I can spend time with him, we do go out for dinner or he comes once in a while to have dinner here. But the “spending” time together in that sense so he won’t look a porn is not a good thing for me after all we’ve been thru lately. It would make it seem like I don’t care about what’s he’s done to me and that he can just step on me over and over again. Besides, I have a surgery scheduled for Monday and I’m to have pelvic rest for 2+ wks if we were TTC a child…

 

[GraceDK]

Mill…

I cant believe you just said that.
You advice a woman whose husband has beaten her and abused her trust while using porn for years that she should relieve his sexual tension…

that’s just distasteful… try to see if you can understand why.

 

[Milliardo]

I can spend time with him, we do go out for dinner or he comes once in a while to have dinner here. But the “spending” time together in that sense so he won’t look a porn is not a good thing for me after all we’ve been thru lately. It would make it seem like I don’t care about what’s he’s done to me and that he can just step on me over and over again. Besides, I have a surgery scheduled for Monday and I’m to have pelvic rest for 2+ wks if we were TTC a child…

Well, God bless you on your surgery! As for that thing I am talking about, since you’ll be having surgery I think it is more proper for you to rest now, but it is also a good time to ponder about that. of course, I’m not saying that going that route means you are rewarding him for what he did to you–certainly not. Nor would that mean he can step on you again and again. However, he is feeling a loneliness that only a spouse can fill up, and it is that connection with you that he is searching.

 

[tc2011]

Mill…

I cant believe you just said that.
You advice a woman whose husband has beaten her and abused her trust while using porn for years that she should relieve his sexual tension…

that’s just distasteful… try to see if you can understand why.

GraceDK, in Milliardo’s defense, one’s body is not entirely one’s own in marriage, and Milliardo’s advice is essentially good, though I perhaps wouldn’t phrase it as “relieving his sexual tension.”

A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife…if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire… 1 Cor 7

If it is not harmful to yessisan in some way, then by all means they should be behaving as husband and wife as far as possible. One may not legitimately deny their spouse, despite past grievances, unless there is danger in the here and now.