He must increase, but I must decrease. John 3:30

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This passage used to not mean too much to me until recently when I started decreasing the ‘self’ within me so the spirit of God can increase within me. ‘Killing’ the self and allowing God to grow takes practice but the spiritual rewards are great. Gratifying the ‘self’ is like an automatic reflex within our society and involves ‘reflective consciousness.’ It occupies a large part of our mind and ought to me tamed. To become ‘selfless’ is the goal. I believe John 3:30 has a lot to say about other verses in the bible, such as:
*
“Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.”
-Eph. 4:22-24*
*
“We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”
–Romans 6:6 *
 
This passage used to not mean too much to me until recently when I started decreasing the ‘self’ within me so the spirit of God can increase within me. ‘Killing’ the self and allowing God to grow takes practice but the spiritual rewards are great. Gratifying the ‘self’ is like an automatic reflex within our society and involves ‘reflective consciousness.’ It occupies a large part of our mind and ought to me tamed. To become ‘selfless’ is the goal. I believe John 3:30 has a lot to say about other verses in the bible, such as:
*
“Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.”
-Eph. 4:22-24*
*
“We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”
–Romans 6:6 *
This was a very inspiring post to myself who feels sometimes more like Paul in Romans 7:15.
I think what is so well said is that “gratifying the self” is like an automatic reflex in our society.
Certainly Words for contemplation and it changed my thinking.
Thank you for writing it.
Mary.
 
I have started reading the Gospel of John, an I have read this as well, and found it very helpful as I am in discernment; i find it to be a very real and alive message for me. Granted I may not fully understand it , but I think what I have gotten out of that passage is honest.

An really it is a model for any Catholic / Christian, just trade the I for We.

good thread. kudos for posting it.
 
Amen to all the prior posts. In this “Year of Faith” may we all read the Bible more.

My Jesus, my all, You love me, I love You. ❤️

Oh Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us, I trust in You!
 
I believe God is pulling me to do this! It’s amazing, complete with spiritual rewards!

Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement!
 
This passage used to not mean too much to me until recently when I started decreasing the ‘self’ within me so the spirit of God can increase within me. ‘Killing’ the self and allowing God to grow takes practice but the spiritual rewards are great. Gratifying the ‘self’ is like an automatic reflex within our society and involves ‘reflective consciousness.’ It occupies a large part of our mind and ought to me tamed. To become ‘selfless’ is the goal. I believe John 3:30 has a lot to say about other verses in the bible, such as:
*
“Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.”
-Eph. 4:22-24*
*
“We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”
–Romans 6:6 *
Great post, great testimony. 👍
 
This goes hand-in-hand with whatSaint Paul wrote to the Galatians (Gal 2:20a)

" I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me"
 
I stumbled across this the other day. What a help to me!
The Litany of Humility
O Jesus! meek and humble of heart…hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being extolled…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being honored…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being praised…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being preferred to others…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being consulted…deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being approved…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being humiliated…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being despised…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of suffering rebukes…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being calumniated…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being forgotten…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being ridiculed…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being wronged…deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being suspected…deliver me, Jesus.
That others may be loved more than I…Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I…Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That in the opinion of the world others may increase and I may decrease…Jesus ,grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be chosen and I set aside…Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be praised and I unnoticed…Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be preferred to me in everything…Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
– Cardinal Merry del Val
And, um, ::coughcough:: I’m also finding it to help me to examine my conscience. ::couchcoughgarblemumble::
 
I stumbled across this the other day. What a help to me!

And, um, ::coughcough:: I’m also finding it to help me to examine my conscience. ::couchcoughgarblemumble::
I find the last third of the litany of humility the hardest to sincerely desire…but I 'm working on it:)
 
The Intervarsity Press “Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture” Vol on Mt 1-13, has a great analysis by the early church fathers on John the Baptist.

John was the greatest old testament prophet. Unlike the others before him, John actually pointed to Jesus to announce that “there” is the Messiah, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

They see in John a symbol of the old testament itself, which must now “decrease” as the New Testament begins to unfold with the public ministry of Jesus.
They allegorize his imprisonment and death as symbols of the end of the old testament.

Certainly, the decrease of one’s will and increasing adherence to the will of God is the personal response to Jesus.
 
I’m going to throw a monkey ranch into this discussion, then duck in hopes not everything thrown will succeed in hitting me. 🤷

The explanation about “He must increase, but I must decrease” that sounds the most reasonable to me - (though not necessarily the most likely!) - is the one offered by the Unification Church (Moonies), now known, I think, as the Family Federation. Their explanation is that the centrality of the Will of God was leaving John and going to Jesus. Not that it had to. I’m not sure how well I can explain it without the “Divine Principle” (The Moonies’ scripture thought they usually deny it is scripture) in front of me.

They argue that if John had stuck with Jesus, John would have become the Chief Disciple, the First Apostle, and shared in the glory and honor that Jesus received. Because John’s faith in Jesus faltered (they don’t say this, but I’m sure it is basically what they mean), he did not follow Jesus. Because of human pride (!), John continue with his own ministry, keeping his own disciples with himself rather than telling them to follow Jesus. Not instructing his disciples to switch their allegiance to Jesus, is the strongest evidence for the Moonie position, imo. 😊

Because the Providence of God centered around Jesus, whoever was with Jesus - the 12 Apostles - would share in the blessings of that Providence, and would be recognized as foremost Christians. Whoever distanced himself from Jesus, would not be part of that Providence, and would not be recognized as a great Christian. Although I don’t think it says this in the Divine Principle, the only testimony John gave about Jesus was the alleged saying at the waters where John was baptizing, “Behold the Lamb of God.” For all I know he could have said that to a number of people, part of a baptismal or post-baptismal liturgy; or he could have been deriding Jesus for taking a pacific approach to the sins of the king while John was preaching hell-fire and putting his life at risk - John was being a lion before the adulterous king, while Jesus was being a submissive lamb before both the Jewish and the Roman authorities. (I don’t mean Jesus didn’t escape from them when his life was at risk. What I mean is that he didn’t condemn them as directly and as harshly and as relentlessly, and as particularly as John was doing with Herod. And yes I recognize that later, Jesus did take up arms to throw off the oppression of the Establishment.)

I know many Christians take John’s saying, “He must increase, but I must decrease,” as a witness to Jesus as messiah or prophet or something. That would be a very vague, ambiguous, even silly sort of “testimony”. It isn’t a testimony at all! Herod, too, “must increase” while John “must decrease”. If the quote is literal, it’s not clear what is changing size. If it’s metaphorical, it still isn’t clear. :confused:

That John the Baptist is in fact considered the greatest testifier to Jesus, suggests to me that John’s disciples were effective in promoting John’s message, and John himself as a holy man. And probably that Jesus’ disciples had no interest in belittling John. Jesus and his disciples probably respected John a lot, not matter whether he was going off to do his own mission, or was sitting around the campfire with the others, roasting fish and hanging on every word of the Messiah.
 
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