He Peace Pulpit: Homilies by Bishop Thomas J. Gumbleton

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You don’t seem to have problems when bishops criticize other bishops…how is this different exactly?

And is it really criticism that bp. gumbleton is leveling?
 
frommi said:
You don’t seem to have problems when bishops criticize other bishops…how is this different exactly?

And is it really criticism that bp. gumbleton is leveling?
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Bishop Gumbleton takes the Pope’s refusal to sanction homosexual couples as a personal insult. He would be surprised to see Father Mcbrien defending him.

te-deum.blogspot.com/2006/09/rev-richard-mcbrien-pope-meant-well.html

From The Most Reverends homily:
“But you don’t have to look very far into the history of the Christian religion to discover that we’ve done the same thing many, many times.”

Christians gave up the violence a long time ago. And how long ago did the crusades happen? Many, many centuries ago. Talk about sloppy scholarship. Are critics like Fr. Reese and Bishop Gumbleton so arrogant that they truly believe the Pope made a mistake? Or do they just claim that others make mistakes in order to make their views known?
 
You don’t seem to have problems when bishops criticize other bishops…
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I have a problem when bishops criticize other bishops. I think that it is not…professional. Unless there is a major moral obligation because the other bishop is doing something so ridiculously wrong.

But there is a decorum to be maintained. A gravitas. Teachers in school aren’t supposed to question each other’s authority in different classes, and parents are supposed to present a united front.

Other bishops generally aren’t supposed to get involved in the affairs within other bishops domains…and that’s generally how they act. They respect each others territory.
 
OriginalJS said:
I read the entire homily. It does not seem offensive to me.
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Well let’s see, given his past activities with the ACLU and Call to Action it’s not surprising to me he would say something like this. And given that the NCR (a catholic in name only newspaper) reported on it, I have doubts about this article. Plus, he is resigned anyway.
 
I think a bishop has authority only over his own diocese. Since an Auxilliary bishop has only a titular diocese, I don’t see that he can speak with authority. A retired auxilliary bishop must be one step down from that in authority.
 
I am so dissappointed…Not in the article, in myself for wasting the time to read anything Gumbleton writes.
 
bones_IV said:
Well let’s see, given his past activities with the ACLU and Call to Action it’s not surprising to me he would say something like this. And given that the NCR (a catholic in name only newspaper) reported on it, I have doubts about this article. Plus, he is resigned anyway.
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Now…there you go again…

You offered the homily as something that was written in poor judgment…

People disagree with you and you start throwing sludge about the ACLU!

What the heck is that all about?

The reality is that YES we have been known as a religion to use deadly force to spread our faith…and it did happen in this country as it was birthed 300 years ago.

What is so hard about that to understand?
 
frommi said:
Now…there you go again…

You offered the homily as something that was written in poor judgment…

People disagree with you and you start throwing sludge about the ACLU!

What the heck is that all about?

The reality is that YES we have been known as a religion to use deadly force to spread our faith…and it did happen in this country as it was birthed 300 years ago.

What is so hard about that to understand?
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I’m not denying that force was used. All I’m saying is the Bishop Gumbleton’s comments are off the mark. And he’s using it to mislead the flock.
 
frommi said:
Now…there you go again…

You offered the homily as something that was written in poor judgment…

People disagree with you and you start throwing sludge about the ACLU!

What the heck is that all about?

The reality is that YES we have been known as a religion to use deadly force to spread our faith…and it did happen in this country as it was birthed 300 years ago.

What is so hard about that to understand?
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One only needs to look at these photos Frommi. Tell me, what did the Pope say that was wrong? Nothing. Gumbleton is out for personal gain. That’s the point I’m making. The ACLU’s anti-catholic history is not something to be proud of and given that Gumbleton was a member of this organization this discredits what he says here in his homily.

photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3284/1064/1600/r3756862851.jpg

photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3284/1064/1600/r2256883310.jpg

photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3284/1064/1600/capt.sge.qcz30.220906172418.photo02.photo.default-512x319.jpg
 
Well…those ‘access denied’ photos really prove your point.

I’m not sure you can say the ACLU is anti-Catholic…that’s a bit of a generalization simply because they are a little fervent about the separation of church and state, I’m pretty sure members of the aclu are also Catholic.

I don’t even think the Auxilary Bishop is saying the Pope was ‘wrong’, he’s saying the Pope may have wanted to reflect deeper on what he was about to say…which is the same thing a LOT of people are saying.

Your logic isn’t holding water.
 
I am sorry to side note this:
but
Joe Kelley:what does this infer!!!What does this mean?? Your signature:
Forty years I loathed that generation; I said: "This people’s heart goes astray; they do not know my ways."Therefore I swore in my anger: “They shall never enter my rest.”

Accuse me of not Knowing my BIBLE, but who said this??
 
I read the entire Homily and found it full of truth and wisdom. Pope Benedict has apologized. However he is getting a true and full accounting of the powerful role that his Position plays in creating movement in this world, and thus has responded with an apology… THe Pope must overcome the Darkness with Light, the Light of Christ.
Lets look at some facts:
  1. He knew what he said when he said it.
  2. Had he tied it to other religions, in essence that there is no such thing possible as a HOLY WAR, and instead linked it to the times in the past that Christians have initiated and faught Holy Wars, then the message of peace would have prevailed. We would be setting the stage for A Holy and Sacred Peace deserving of all human beings, regardless of religious identifications. THe trouble is, he spoke only of Muslim Holy War.
  3. We as Christians, fail as well to defend those who are victims of extremists groups, who claim to speak on behalf of God or their religion. One point in particular, is our failure as Christians to rise up against the KKK., who justify thei heinous acts under the name of Christianity. Some have said that if all Muslims do not think the same as these Islamic Jihad Extremists, then why haven’t they risked life and limb to stop them. Do we as Christians, risk family and friends, to rise up against atrocities against God and Man. I haven’t personally. Most haven’t. Can we not see clearly where some humans have gone astray from the real and true meaning of their Religious Faith. We are all responsible.
    Peace,
    Lisa
 
lrs said:
I read the entire Homily and found it full of truth and wisdom. Pope Benedict has apologized. However he is getting a true and full accounting of the powerful role that his Position plays in creating movement in this world, and thus has responded with an apology… THe Pope must overcome the Darkness with Light, the Light of Christ.
Lets look at some facts:
  1. He knew what he said when he said it.
  2. Had he tied it to other religions, in essence that there is no such thing possible as a HOLY WAR, and instead linked it to the times in the past that Christians have initiated and faught Holy Wars, then the message of peace would have prevailed. We would be setting the stage for A Holy and Sacred Peace deserving of all human beings, regardless of religious identifications. THe trouble is, he spoke only of Muslim Holy War.
  3. We as Christians, fail as well to defend those who are victims of extremists groups, who claim to speak on behalf of God or their religion. One point in particular, is our failure as Christians to rise up against the KKK., who justify thei heinous acts under the name of Christianity. Some have said that if all Muslims do not think the same as these Islamic Jihad Extremists, then why haven’t they risked life and limb to stop them. Do we as Christians, risk family and friends, to rise up against atrocities against God and Man. I haven’t personally. Most haven’t. Can we not see clearly where some humans have gone astray from the real and true meaning of their Religious Faith. We are all responsible.
    Peace,
    Lisa
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Benedict didn’t retract his statement. He was sorry for the violence that happened.
 
True enough:
But, He did apologize for the AFFECT his words had on this world and wants to clarify his position by holding open dialogue. Not the image we had of John Paul II traversing the world asking for forgiveness and promoting peace. During that time we were neither on the brink of or in a world war. Pope Benedicts most influential stance should focus only on PEACE and NON VIOLENCE for everyone. All children of GOD. His ability to affect public sentiment is obviously enormous.
Blessings, Lisa
 
Ever since the lecture at Regensburg, I have been so anxious to learn what wisdom Bishop Gumbleton would offer on the topic. :rolleyes: Sadly, this met my expectations!

Like many commentators, both secular and religious, he suggests that the Holy Father spoke without fully comprehending the ramifications of the words he chose. Can these people truly believe Pope Benedict XVI expected nobody to respond with wide-stroke finger-pointing about maverick Crusaders and missionaries? Was he hoping to just brush that stuff under the rug? How trite!

I read about one priest/professor (I think at the Gregorian University in Rome) who pointed out how in the Pope’s address, he misspelled a Muslim name by one letter. To him, this was a clear indication that the Holy Father is ignorant of all things pertaining to Islam! Could this be?

This kind of one-upmanship really serves no beneficial purpose.

Our Lady of Fatima, Pray for Us!
 
frommi said:
You don’t seem to have problems when bishops criticize other bishops…how is this different exactly?

And is it really criticism that bp. gumbleton is leveling?
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Mostly because +Gumbleton is playing really loose with the facts here.
The whole so-called conquest of the Americas was a violent spreading of the faith. Latin America especially. It was so terrible there that back in the 16th century the bishop who founded the diocese of San Cristóbal de Las Casas in Mexico down around Chiapas, Bartolomé de las Casas, was condemned by the pope because he condemned those who were killing the natives. He said, “This is no way to spread the Christian faith.” He was condemned and removed as a missionary from Mexico. Our history is filled with that kind of violence.
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The condemnation that +Las Casas recieved was due to an order that he gave to his clergy that all those who did not release Indian slaves were to be denied Absolution.

The placement of such contitions on the Absolution of Sins is contrary to a correct understanding of Catholic Sacramentology and was rightly condemed by the Pope.

Considering that Pope Paul had issued a Bull decrying the use of natives as slaves, it would be a bit inconsistant of him to condem +Las Casas for doing the same, now wouldn’t it?

And he was NOT removed as a missionary, but rather resigned from his diocese of his own accord, so that he could act as an advocate for the Indians at the Royal Court in Madrid.

(and one other fact that +Gumbleton got wrong, +Las Casas diocese is in Guatemala, not Mexico.)

Maybe if +Gumbleton would spend more time checking his facts, some of us might give them a little more credit.
 
frommi said:
Well…those ‘access denied’ photos really prove your point.

I’m not sure you can say the ACLU is anti-Catholic…that’s a bit of a generalization simply because they are a little fervent about the separation of church and state, I’m pretty sure members of the aclu are also Catholic.

I don’t even think the Auxilary Bishop is saying the Pope was ‘wrong’, he’s saying the Pope may have wanted to reflect deeper on what he was about to say…which is the same thing a LOT of people are saying.

Your logic isn’t holding water.
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By the way, here are your “access denied” photos,

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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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