He who endures to the end will be saved!

[Rocket_Man]

guan, in my own conversion, it was not this way. I spent many nights and days at end buried in His Word. I would get home at night from work and read until I fell asleep and then wake up and read again. His Word convicted me so great that at times unspeakable groanings would exhume from my being. There were many tears that flowed down from my cheeks as He washed me through His Word. I began to change. The things I once loved became things I hated. I remember one night standing on top of a river bridge and throwing away all my prized collection of pagan music. He began to transform me before I was baptized many months later.

“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.”

Praise be to God!

The Confessions of Saint Augustine, Book VIII, Paragraphs 28 and 29.

I cast myself down I know not how, under a certain fig-tree, giving full vent to my tears; and the floods of mine eyes gushed out an acceptable sacrifice to Thee. And, not indeed in these words, yet to this purpose, spake I much unto Thee: and Thou, O Lord, how long? how long, Lord, wilt Thou be angry for ever? Remember not our former iniquities, for I felt that I was held by them. I sent up these sorrowful words: How long, how long, “to-morrow, and tomorrow?” Why not now? why not is there this hour an end to my uncleanness?

So was I speaking and weeping in the most bitter contrition of my heart, when, lo! I heard from a neighbouring house a voice, as of boy or girl, I know not, chanting, and oft repeating, "Take up and read; Take up and read. " Instantly, my countenance altered, I began to think most intently whether children were wont in any kind of play to sing such words: nor could I remember ever to have heard the like. So checking the torrent of my tears, I arose; interpreting it to be no other than a command from God to open the book, and read the first chapter I should find. For I had heard of Antony, that coming in during the reading of the Gospel, he received the admonition, as if what was being read was spoken to him: Go, sell all that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come and follow me: and by such oracle he was forthwith converted unto Thee. Eagerly then I returned to the place where Alypius was sitting; for there had I laid the volume of the Apostle when I arose thence. I seized, opened, and in silence read that section on which my eyes first fell: Not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying; but put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, in concupiscence. No further would I read; nor needed I: for instantly at the end of this sentence, by a light as it were of serenity infused into my heart, all the darkness of doubt vanished away.

 

[elvisman]

There are more…

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. **But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.**19

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

This is referring to the MORTAL SIN of not taking the Eucharist seriously and receiving it unworthily.
Why? Because it IS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What do YOU think Paul is referrring to when he says:
"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."

 

[elvisman]

This would be one!

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. **And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. ****And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. **And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. **Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. **

So you actually believe that EVERYBODY who lies and holds back from the Lord will drop dead?
**If that were true - NONE of us would be alive today. The planet would be barren. **You can’t understand that there are varying degrees of the spiritual gravity of sin?

The Protestants I know actually believe that taking a pencil from work and raping and murdering are the same in the eyes of God because they - as you - don’t understand what John was saying in 1 John 5. Therein lies the tragedy of Protestantism. Rejection of God’s truth because of rebellious, man-made traditions.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

God’s grace enables us to persevere, but we still must persevere.

Unfortunately, some will reject this grace even after they have been sanctified:

Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant** by which they were sanctified**, and outraged the Spirit?”

A faith can be shipwrecked. Can something you don’t have be shipwrecked?

1 Timothy 1:19 “Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked”.

True for the unregenerate, but not for the Christian. So if you believe you can turn from God, then you never had God to start.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. -John 5:24

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never saved to at all. First John 2:19 says, “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us.”

Phil. 1:6 {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect {complete} it until the day of Christ Jesus.

But anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally, because He is the “deposit guaranteeing our inheritance”

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of {God’s own} possession, to the praise of His glory.

Tons more out there; so for all of you who believe you can lose your salvation are either very weak Christians sucking on the “milk” of His Word or you are no Christian at all according to the word of God. If you do not see the difference of one who has been exposed to the gospel, partakers, then walk or fall or stumble away were not Christians to begin with, then you prove you do not know what a Christian is nor do you understand the power and authority of God in salvation.

So to all of you who are born again, sanctify yourselves by the washing and bathing in His word - daily.

John 17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.”

God bless all of you to Salvation and may god have mercy on our nations leaders.

 

[elvisman]

True for the unregenerate, but not for the Christian. So if you believe you can turn from God, then you never had God to start.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. -John 5:24

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never saved to at all. First John 2:19 says, “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us.”

Phil. 1:6 {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect {complete} it until the day of Christ Jesus.

But anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally, because He is the “deposit guaranteeing our inheritance”

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of {God’s own} possession, to the praise of His glory.

Tons more out there; so for all of you who believe you can lose your salvation are either very weak Christians sucking on the “milk” of His Word or you are no Christian at all according to the word of God. If you do not see the difference of one who has been exposed to the gospel, partakers, then walk or fall or stumble away were not Christians to begin with, then you prove you do not know what a Christian is nor do you understand the power and authority of God in salvation.

So to all of you who are born again, sanctify yourselves by the washing and bathing in His word - daily.

John 17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.”

God bless all of you to Salvation and may god have mercy on our nations leaders.

Wrong, friend.

Whereas, when you read the Scriptures out of context, I can see where you get those ideas. However - the Bible must be read in context. Your notion that you cannot fall away from God if you are a real, genuine Christian goes against the very nature of the Gospel message:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

2 Peter 2:26-27
**For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. **
**For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. **

1 Cor. 4:4
"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me."

1 John 5:13
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

ALL of these passages refer to true believers.

 

[KathleenGee]

People can be saved and then condemned at 80…backsliding…various conditions can bring it on…

Or…

One of the worst things to happen to someone is to be betrayed and falsely accused by fellow believers…it can destroy a person’s faith…or being raised in a cult that gave an innocent weird ideas and took them years to get over false guilt and phobias…

You hear it all the time about people being abused in this church or temple or school…

Many abused victims lost their faith…they never sought to abandon it…their personhood was destroyed…

There is a song going around right now…’'You better be good, you better not fight…

We can never depend on ourselves for our salvation, but living on the Word of God…

 

[Rocket_Man]

So you actually believe that EVERYBODY who lies and holds back from the Lord will drop dead?

Let’s refresh, you asked whether 1 John 5 was spiritual or physical death. I replied physical. You asked for some examples in the first century. I gave you some.

The Protestants I know actually believe that taking a pencil from work and raping and murdering are the same in the eyes of God because they - as you - don’t understand what John was saying in 1 John 5. Therein lies the tragedy of Protestantism. Rejection of God’s truth because of rebellious, man-made traditions.

I think that Protestants would say that taking a pencil from work and raping and murdering are both sins and fall short of meeting God’s expectations of perfect righteousness. This statement is a harvesting message to alert all men that they are in need of Jesus Christ as Savior, even though they may say that they have not raped and murdered.

As to varying degress of sin, as in the examples I showed you, God is supreme judge in matters of His children.

Just look at how the CC has changed it’s heart in the matter of suicide throuhout history. There was a time when one who committed suicide couldn’t have a funeral in the CC. Last year, I went to a funeral of one who had lived a life of rebellion and had never showed and interest in God. Yet, the priest insisted at the cermony the individual was destined for God’s glory because he had been baptized Catholic. This is another example of the deadness in water baptism if sin first isn’t purged by the work of Christ in the individuals heart.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Wrong, friend.

Whereas, when you read the Scriptures out of context, I can see where you get those ideas. However - the Bible must be read in context. Your notion that you cannot fall away from God if you are a real, genuine Christian goes against the very nature of the Gospel message:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

2 Peter 2:26-27
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

1 Cor. 4:4
"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me."

1 John 5:13
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

ALL of these passages refer to true believers.

elvis, I thought we already covered some of these.

Romans 11:17 - Was written in context to the hardening of Israel, election and the Church. It’s a warning to the church, including the CC, to remain faithful to the promise. It is not scripture aimed at the doctrine of salvation.

2 Peter 2:26-27 - Is simply a statement of fact and written in reference to false prophets and their greed. Most likely they came to knowledge of Christ for unpure motives such as personal gain. God is not mocked, they were never genuinely reborn.

Heb. 10:26-27 - Is simply another repeat of 2 Peter 2: except there is a calling from God and enlightenment to the individual. The individual turns away from the gift, thereby trodding on the blood of Christ whereby he was sancitified. Again, nothing is left for him except judgement. Don’t you willfully sin? I know that when I do sin, I am holding hands with it.

Matt. 7:21 - Backup a few verses, and again you will see Jesus is talking about false prophets. The false prophets will say to me "on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

1 Cor. 9:27 - Paul is in the race for an incorruptible crown, harvesting souls through his preaching. Like an athelete running a race, he beats his flesh into subjection, so that others hearing his preaching of Christ, will not have any charge against him.

1 Cor. 4:4 - Notice that verse 1 states, “So then” So then what Paul?- go back the the last verse in the prior chapter. Whether you follow Paul or Apollos or Cephas and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God" - Don’t say that you are of Paul or of Apollos or of Cephas rather it is God who judges the motives of men and each man will recieve his own reward

 

[elvisman]

Let’s refresh, you asked whether 1 John 5 was spiritual or physical death. I replied physical. You asked for some examples in the first century. I gave you some.

You STILL have not answered the question:
Do you actually believe that EVERYBODY who lies and holds back from the Lord will drop dead?

I think that Protestants would say that taking a pencil from work and raping and murdering are both sins and fall short of meeting God’s expectations of perfect righteousness. This statement is a harvesting message to alert all men that they are in need of Jesus Christ as Savior, even though they may say that they have not raped and murdered.

As to varying degress of sin, as in the examples I showed you, God is supreme judge in matters of His children.

You have showed me nothing. Are you saying that there are no varying degrees of sin?
Just answer the questions as asked and please stop beating around the bush. It only illustrates that you don’t have a definitive answer.

Just look at how the CC has changed it’s heart in the matter of suicide throuhout history. There was a time when one who committed suicide couldn’t have a funeral in the CC. Last year, I went to a funeral of one who had lived a life of rebellion and had never showed and interest in God. Yet, the priest insisted at the cermony the individual was destined for God’s glory because he had been baptized Catholic. This is another example of the deadness in water baptism if sin first isn’t purged by the work of Christ in the individuals heart.

If a Catholic priest said those things - he would be wrong. BUT, that doesn’t mean that the Church is wrong in its teachings - just the individual.

 

[elvisman]

elvis, I thought we already covered some of these.
Romans 11:17 - Was written in context to the hardening of Israel, election and the Church. It’s a warning to the church, including the CC, to remain faithful to the promise. It is not scripture aimed at the doctrine of salvation.

It absoloutely is aimed at salvation. We must remain faithful. The fact that he is saying we MUST remain faithful or be cut off proves that a true believer CAN fall.

2 Peter 2:26-27 - Is simply a statement of fact and written in reference to false prophets and their greed. Most likely they came to knowledge of Christ for unpure motives such as personal gain. God is not mocked, they were never genuinely reborn.

WRONG again.
Peter is talking about people who KNEW the way of righteousness - not those who pretended. He is speaking about those who turned back to their previous evil ways.
READ THE TEXT, my friend, insted of applying your own thoughts.

Remember - Peter also said (2 Pet. 3:16):
"In them (Paul’s letters) there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures."

Heb. 10:26-27 - Is simply another repeat of 2 Peter 2: except there is a calling from God and enlightenment to the individual. The individual turns away from the gift, thereby trodding on the blood of Christ whereby he was sancitified. Again, nothing is left for him except judgement. Don’t you willfully sin? I know that when I do sin, I am holding hands with it.

Are you even trying to read the text - or do you just jump to your own twisted conclusions?

Here, the author is saying that for those who fall away - Jesus’ work on the cross is now null and void because they fell away from what they once had.
He says:
**"…there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”**Matt. 7:21 - Backup

a few verses, and again you will see Jesus is talking about false prophets. The false prophets will say to me "on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

**This is for ALL who preach a false gospel. **

1 Cor. 9:27 - Paul is in the race for an incorruptible crown, harvesting souls through his preaching. Like an athelete running a race, he beats his flesh into subjection, so that others hearing his preaching of Christ, will not have any charge against him.
WHAT??
Paul is stating - in no uncertain terms - that even HE who preaches the truth to others has NO GUARANTEE of salvation unless he remains faithful to the end:
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified"

1 Cor. 4:4 - Notice that verse 1 states, “So then” So then what Paul?- go back the the last verse in the prior chapter. Whether you follow Paul or Apollos or Cephas and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God" - Don’t say that you are of Paul or of Apollos or of Cephas rather it is God who judges the motives of men and each man will recieve his own reward

Good heavens! 2 Pet. 3:16 certainly applies to you.

In 1 Cor. 4:4, Paul emphatically states that although he may not see any wrong in hois life - he is STILL not guaranteed anything because he is not there yet. God is the final judge of our lives. THIS is why he tells the Phillipians to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Phi. 2:12).

The Bible - when read in context (which is something you are seemingly unable to do) CLEARLY shows that salvation is a process - not a slam dunk, one-time occurrence.

 

[Rocket_Man]

1 Cor. 9:27 - Paul is in the race for an incorruptible crown, harvesting souls through his preaching. Like an athelete running a race, he beats his flesh into subjection, so that others hearing his preaching of Christ, will not have any charge against him.

WHAT??
Paul is stating - in no uncertain terms - that even HE who preaches the truth to others has NO GUARANTEE of salvation unless he remains faithful to the end:
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified"

elvis, Paul is talking about his missionary work. You need to back up and read following the verses before hand so you can put the last verse into context.

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

guan, in my own conversion, it was not this way. I spent many nights and days at end buried in His Word. I would get home at night from work and read until I fell asleep and then wake up and read again. His Word convicted me so great that at times unspeakable groanings would exhume from my being. There were many tears that flowed down from my cheeks as He washed me through His Word. I began to change. The things I once loved became things I hated. I remember one night standing on top of a river bridge and throwing away all my prized collection of pagan music. He began to transform me before I was baptized many months later.

“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.”

“Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.”

Praise be to God!

That my friends is the Christian who has dealt with their sin problem and this is the testimony of a Christian and I, myself, testify to everyone, that this is indeed what happens in the regenerated soul.

Rocket_Man, when you look back at the “old man”; does it not seem surreal and like some other life that you would describe more like some nightmare and that you would never want to return.
Did you before feel like you were a “good person”, but after that conversion you realized you were a pathetic piece of garbage before the Lord who is perfect and Holy?..do I have a witness?

How long ago was this Rocket?

 

[Timothy_Piper]

This only plays out this way if you put all the spiritual emphasis on the water baptism instead of the real baptism through Him that purifies the heart through His Spirit. If He is continously sactifying the believers heart, how can one turn back. This is a new and better covenant than the old given to Israel. Now we can say with confidence “All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.”

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

**
Amen - so true so true - learn Christians learn!**

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Please tell me what this means.

“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

This is the most severe form of chastisement the Lord will dish out on a Christian by handing him over to death, yet because he is a Christian he will still be in heaven. A Christian who commits continual sin or some unspeakable sin, which should never be the case, but apparently here it must happen or else this would not have been written.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

You are dead wrong, friend.
A believer CAN fall and lose their salvation, because salvation is not a guarantee to all believers - but for those who remain faithful to the end. I already showed you the passages of Scripture that declare this very fact.
Tell me - what do you think he means by deadly sin?

As for your question about 1 Cor. 5:5 - this is speaking about excommunication - to be ostracized for a time by the Church to allow the work of God to be manifest in that person. The person being spoken of in this specific passage is a man who lis living sinfully with his father’s wife. These verses (1 Cor. 5:1-5) correlate perfectly with Jesus’ giving the Church authority in all matters concerning faith and morals in Matt. 18:15-18 and John 20:21-13.
Contrary to what many mistakenly believe - whereas, excommunication is a discipline - it is also a merciful act.

***The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; ***the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that ***God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. ***12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:16-17 (sin leading to death)
God knows what the sin is, it’s not any specific sin, it could be different in any individual case and every case. It could be the straw that broke the camel’s back in the continuing disobedient Christian. Could also be applied to a non-believer who commits a sin of apostasy, such as Galatians 5 or Hebrews 6, and one is praying for their salvation, but it’s too late because God has already made his decision.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Now that is a new one on me, a Protestant quoting scripture that warns against taking Holy Eucharist without discerning the Real Presence of Jesus in the bread and wine !!!
You got this one exactly right !
Many who failed to recognize the glorified Lord in the Communion meal were DYING.
Any lessons in that for Christians of today ?

The problem is that none of the apostles or the church in the book of Acts believed in a literal eating because it is symbolic, the bread of His flesh and the wine as His blood and points directly to the atonement on the cross and we are commanded to “remember” this.

How can a priest command Jesus to come down from the right hand of the Father, who said He would be there to make intercession for the saints and won’t be back till His enemies are made His footstool, then turn around and forget all He said because he was commanded by a man called a priest? Please explain.

Hebrews 10:10-15
10 By this will*** we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all***. 11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices,{SOUND FAMILIAR} which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13 **waiting from that time onward **UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying…"

Long live the King of Kings!!

 

[Rocket_Man]

The Bible - when read in context (which is something you are seemingly unable to do) CLEARLY shows that salvation is a process - not a slam dunk, one-time occurrence.

And I’m telling you friend, that if the righteous son was in charge of his father’s house, there never would have been a feast.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

This is referring to the MORTAL SIN of not taking the Eucharist seriously and receiving it unworthily.
Why? Because it IS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What do YOU think Paul is referrring to when he says:
"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."

What is an unworthy manner? Treating it as some common thing, with carelessness, irreverence, indifference, coming with knowledge of unconfessed sin, with a superficial attitude. What is the result of participating unworthy manner? Chastening and can be severe, very severe.

Paul tells us what is meant by the bread and the cup; why do Catholics ignore or overlook this very simplistic passage?
1 Corinthians 11:23-34
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way {He took} the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink {it,} in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

So you actually believe that EVERYBODY who lies and holds back from the Lord will drop dead?
If that were true - NONE of us would be alive today. The planet would be barren. You can’t understand that there are varying degrees of the spiritual gravity of sin?

The Protestants I know actually believe that taking a pencil from work and raping and murdering are the same in the eyes of God because they - as you - don’t understand what John was saying in 1 John 5. Therein lies the tragedy of Protestantism. Rejection of God’s truth because of rebellious, man-made traditions.

How many sins does a person have to commit to be under the wrath and condemnation of God?
Let’s say we have two people and the only sin they ever committed were the following:
One steals a pencil; would he be condemned to hell? Yes.
The other murdered another; would he be condemned to hell? Yes.

Now let us the same scenario and say they were both Christians; freed from the condemnation of sin. Which one forfeits heaven? Neither.

 

[Rocket_Man]

** Rocket_Man, when you look back at the “old man”; does it not seem surreal and like some other life that you would describe more like some nightmare and that you would never want to return.
Did you before feel like you were a “good person”, but after that conversion you realized you were a pathetic piece of garbage before the Lord who is perfect and Holy?..do I have a witness? How long ago was this Rocket?**

Tim, before conversion around 15 years ago, I was following my nature to find self gratification in wine, women, and song and every falsehood that springs forth from this type of life style. After loosing my wife, family, and everything I owned through divorce, I ended up in a small room over looking a transient hotel in the inner city. It was here while living among those just like me did Jesus Christ reveal himself to me through His Word.

His Word convicted me of my sin, not just by the Holy Law, but also by the purity and goodness of His nature. Since my sin was go great, I couldn’t even look up at a statue of Jesus that was in a church garden near my room.

Everyday that I live, I know that it is a gift from Him and I am still unworthy to be called His son. Yet, I press on because there something anew in my heart that still sings His song.