Head Covering During Mass

[CarrieH]

I’ve been trying to convince my wife that she ought to cover her head in Church, but of course she won’t. Some have pointed out that head coverings for women in Church is an old custom that is no longer necessary.

Given that, I’ve decided that as long as women refuse to cover their heads in Church, I’m going to begin wearing a hat in Church. If women can change the custom, so can I.

Hmmm, sounds rather passive-aggressive to me. What’s really your motive, to embarrass your wife to the point that she will do as you ask? I’m glad I’m not married to you if that’s the case!

I’m in church to pray and worship, not to judge the head-coverings or lack thereof of my neighbors. Seems there are other issues more deserving of my energy if I’m going to get my knickers in a twist about something…like abortion, social injustice, and the war in Iraq for starters.

 

[cue]

Tom317,
I think you are right on about feminism, however, I do not agree with some of your other points. The head covering for women does not have the force of law. Therefore, you cannot make anyone do it. However, it is an inherently catholic custom which should not be discarded. The same goes for genuflecting to the tabernacle before entering a pew. It is not a law (liturgical or canon) and you cannot make anyone do it. Nonetheless, we would all recognize that something is wrong in the person who refuses to do that. Are there times when a person genuflects mindlessly? Yes, of course. However, that is no reason to stop genuflecting because the problem is with the thinking, not the gesture. The same goes for head covering. Our generation has forgotten what it means. The last thing we need to do is abandon this custom. The answer is education.

This has led me to my second issue. While I think part of the symbolism of a head covering is humility, I do not think submission to the husband is a main reason for the head covering. It occurs to me that part of the reason for head coverings is that it is more formal. The daily sloppy appearance of our lazy society aside, our culture, even secular, agrees on this point. If my women religious example does not satisfy, look at some of the most important (and formal) events in the lives of Americans–weddings and funerals. Out come the veils! Because of our extremely self-centered, rude, lazy society, the true expressions (manners, fashion) of our culture are very hard to see. But at events such as these, we are able to catch a glimpse of it.

Part of the education I spoke of above involves teaching our children that other people 1) exist and 2) are a gift and blessing. It was out of this understanding–serving others–that manners, fashion, etc. developed (that is, true fashion and manners). These are the activities that make a man proper or ‘civil,’ distinguishing him from barbarians who swim in the mud of their failure to care for others. Our society is very barbarian, thus, what is proper in our culture is incapable of changing since the whole project of thinking of others has been abandoned. That means that the argument that signs of respect and disrespect have changed cannot be applied because the whole project of showing respect has been abandoned by our society.
I hope I have stated my points clearly. This is a very interesting discussion. I would like to thank all who have contributed.

 

[adrift]

5
But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.
6
For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.

Paul’s reasoning for a woman wearing a veil is that if she wouldn’t cut off her hair or shave her head than she should wear a veil. Does this mean that women shouldn’t cut their hair?

 

[adrift]

It exists because of feminism. It is really that simple. Feminism, at its roots, never wants to acknowledge that God has given men a different tole then women. Women wearing head coverings is mandated by God, and the purpose of it is to symbolize the fact that a husband is the head of the wife. Feminism rejects that notion, so when Vatican II and the new Canon Law came onto the scene, feminist leaders jumped all over what they perceived to be an opening to get rid of head coverings. It all went part and parcel with birth control, abortion, burning bras and a total liberation of the female gender…or so feminists thought. It makes no difference that the head coverings are still required by law, just as it makes no difference that abortion is consider a gravely immoral act. Nothing can stand in the way of making women become men.

Women rarely wore veils. Does anyone else remember putting Kleenex on their head? Hats were the norm. Hats are rare now you can get some awful things but basically they aren’t available. In another thread, someone said they have access but in the boondocks they are not available. Scarves are miserable I always had to fight them from sliding off my head. With the Muslims demanding their women be veiled, I have a hard time with this. The bible speaks of veils wouldn’t they be the same as what the Muslims demand now. Putting a little piece of fabric on your head is not what Paul was speaking of. I think it is great if a woman wants to wear anything on her head. It should never be forced.

 

[slyboots]

Before this thread gets locked (as do many threads about headcoverings) due to a lack of charity by some posters, I would like to say this…
I do not wear a headcovering because the Church says to do so.
I am not concerned about the Church not requiring headcoverings.
I wear my cover because the Holy Spirit moves me to do so. It assists me in remembering humility, modesty and obedience. If the Church decided to enforce the wearing of headcoverings I don’t think it would be a positive step. It either comes from the heart or not.
I also do not know if all women must cover. God knows. I do feel if the Spirit urges you to do so it would be well with your soul to obey. For me it has become a gift. And it could become so for you as well. If not, then perhaps something else is given to you.
But again I say, if you see me at mass with my mantilla or scarf know that I do not feel superior to you or think less of you because you are not covered. I am only being obedient to what I believe is a discipline God has placed on my heart.

PS Boondocks? I live in Oklahoma. Not exactly New York City, Dallas, LA, etc. If you want hats JC Penneys, Macys, Dillards, Burlington Stores, Catherines and anyplace that African American ladies shop for dress clothes will have wonderful hats. But I find my covers more comfortable to me.

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Hmmm, sounds rather passive-aggressive to me. What’s really your motive, to embarrass your wife to the point that she will do as you ask? I’m glad I’m not married to you if that’s the case!

I’m in church to pray and worship, not to judge the head-coverings or lack thereof of my neighbors. Seems there are other issues more deserving of my energy if I’m going to get my knickers in a twist about something…like abortion, social injustice, and the war in Iraq for starters.

Yep, that’s it; embarrass my wife. You got me. But then, I’m just like all men.

 

[ICXCNIKA]

My Disobedient Wife!

So far no one has been able to show me how my trying to convince my wife to wear a head covering constitutes brow beating or embarrassment of her. I mean, after all, after reading an issue of Medjugorie Magazine she tries to convince me that the apparitions are real. She’s so mean, it’s so embarrassing.

But let me give you a little example of how disobedient my wife is and maybe you’ll understand where I am coming from.

My wife and I generally share the responsibilities around the house. If something needs cleaning we’ll clean up. If my wife is busy and can’t vacuum in the morning, I’l do it in the evening when she is at work. We also pretty much share in the cooking. It depends on how we feel, who is the most exhausted from work etc.

However, and this happens a lot, if she cooks I’ll tell her that I’ll do the dishes and sometimes when I cook, I tell her “take a break” I’ll do the dishes. Do you know what my disobedient wife does, more often than not? She’ll do the dishes anyway. Even if I’ve given her explicit orders not to. If I get to the dishes, she’ll help rinse or dry them.

Do you see what I’m up against!

 

[migurl]

Perhaps you should ask her to try it out for one Mass. Explain to her that you think she should give it a try and see if it helps or hurts while she is praying. For me, some days it is a distraction because I fiddle with it or my baby brother grabs it, but for the most part it helps to remind me after Communion that I must be praying instead of looking around at the people coming and going in the aisles. I have heard that when a woman comes into meet the Pope, she must cover her head, so I figure, that if I have to cover my head to see a man (a Holy man, but a human man none-the-less) then I should cover it for the One who made all men and women. But, when it comes to your wife, I suggest that you politley ask that she try it out for you and if she doesn’t like it I suggest that you leave it alone and pray for her and that God’s will be done, even if it takes a few years for it to come to pass!!!
But remember, be kind, patient and understanding with her, otherwise she will close her heart, mind and ears to whatever you have to say on the matter. Request and suggest, don’t demand, she is your wife afterall, not your child.

 

[Kristine1957]

:bible1: I think the important thing to remember is your at church for a reason. To be in the presence of God and to worship. Does it really matter what your wearing?

 

[mesquite_magic]

My Disobedient Wife!

So far no one has been able to show me how my trying to convince my wife to wear a head covering constitutes brow beating or embarrassment of her. I mean, after all, after reading an issue of Medjugorie Magazine she tries to convince me that the apparitions are real. She’s so mean, it’s so embarrassing.

But let me give you a little example of how disobedient my wife is and maybe you’ll understand where I am coming from.

My wife and I generally share the responsibilities around the house. If something needs cleaning we’ll clean up. If my wife is busy and can’t vacuum in the morning, I’l do it in the evening when she is at work. We also pretty much share in the cooking. It depends on how we feel, who is the most exhausted from work etc.

However, and this happens a lot, if she cooks I’ll tell her that I’ll do the dishes and sometimes when I cook, I tell her “take a break” I’ll do the dishes. Do you know what my disobedient wife does, more often than not? She’ll do the dishes anyway. Even if I’ve given her explicit orders not to. If I get to the dishes, she’ll help rinse or dry them.

Do you see what I’m up against!

I’m not sure if you are teasing when you refer to your wife as disobedient. I believe that that’s the reason other posters think you are being chauvanistic. Your wording in your posts sounds archacic and dis-respectful…

As far as the head covering goes, I don’t know what the Church says. I’ve been lost in space, I guess. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s, I rarely saw women covering their heads. The women I saw were mainly, older Hispanic women, so I assumed It was a Mexican tradition. I never thought to have it explained to me. I believe that women post Vactican II are like me and wearing a hat feels strange to them.

When it comes to men wearing hats in buildings, well, I grew up knowing that it was disrespectful. Maybe that was because my Dad was in the military.I never knew the connection to Catholic teachings. When I see a man wearing a hat in a building, especially a cowboy hat, it grates on my nerves.My sons get a smack on the head, with their hats, if they dare wear it in any building.

Kim

 

[ICXCNIKA]

I’m not sure if you are teasing when you refer to your wife as disobedient. I believe that that’s the reason other posters think you are being chauvanistic. Your wording in your posts sounds archacic and dis-respectful…

Obviously, in that post I am teasing. However, what about my original post sounds chauvanistic and disrespectful?

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

You forgot to address the toe nail clipping portion of my response in your oh-so-serious rebuttal of my less than seious reply. Just what document commands tradtionalists to check their sense of humor at the church door?!.. Go ahead…wear your caps, fedoras, do-rags or 10-gallons in church if it helps you feel more righteous. If you promise not to block my view, I promise I’ll try not to smirk when I see you.

Oh, please do smirk; it’s the least you owe me in charity if I show up anywhere (but a rodeo) in my neck of the woods wearing a ten-gallon hat. How else will I realize the error of my ways? Seriously, though, if I were wearing a hat to church it would be a beret, no question.

 

[Tom317]

Women rarely wore veils. Does anyone else remember putting Kleenex on their head? Hats were the norm. Hats are rare now you can get some awful things but basically they aren’t available. In another thread, someone said they have access but in the boondocks they are not available. Scarves are miserable I always had to fight them from sliding off my head. With the Muslims demanding their women be veiled, I have a hard time with this. The bible speaks of veils wouldn’t they be the same as what the Muslims demand now. Putting a little piece of fabric on your head is not what Paul was speaking of. I think it is great if a woman wants to wear anything on her head. It should never be forced.

I am old enough to know, and frankly there were never any women that did not wear head coverings. Sure, in a pinch hankies were used, but most women had proper head coverings, even if they sometimes looked a bit old and used.

 

[Tom317]

You forgot to address the toe nail clipping portion of my response in your oh-so-serious rebuttal of my less than seious reply. Just what document commands tradtionalists to check their sense of humor at the church door?!.. Go ahead…wear your caps, fedoras, do-rags or 10-gallons in church if it helps you feel more righteous. If you promise not to block my view, I promise I’ll try not to smirk when I see you.

Traditionalist is the wrong word…try using: “faithful Catholic.”

I confess, my sense of humor is low regarding the near wholesale slaughter of Catholic traditions that has happened over the last 30-40 years. Foregive me for that.

 

[Tom317]

I’m not sure if you are teasing when you refer to your wife as disobedient. I believe that that’s the reason other posters think you are being chauvanistic. Your wording in your posts sounds archacic and dis-respectful…

As far as the head covering goes, I don’t know what the Church says. I’ve been lost in space, I guess. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s, I rarely saw women covering their heads. The women I saw were mainly, older Hispanic women, so I assumed It was a Mexican tradition. I never thought to have it explained to me. I believe that women post Vactican II are like me and wearing a hat feels strange to them.

When it comes to men wearing hats in buildings, well, I grew up knowing that it was disrespectful. Maybe that was because my Dad was in the military.I never knew the connection to Catholic teachings. When I see a man wearing a hat in a building, especially a cowboy hat, it grates on my nerves.My sons get a smack on the head, with their hats, if they dare wear it in any building.

Kim

I agree, I think most of feel the same way about wearing hats inside buildings. But, ask yourself why. Why is it a sign of disrepsect? It is, after all, just another article of clothing, so why is it seen as disrespectful?

I submit it is carryover from the days when the Church held fast to its Biblically correct position that men are not to cover their heads in Church (God said it). The funny thing is, and here is where the hypocrisy lies, men are still held to the traditions, whereas women get a pass. Now, why is that?

 

[Tom317]

:bible1: I think the important thing to remember is your at church for a reason. To be in the presence of God and to worship. Does it really matter what your wearing?

Yes, it does matter.

If you were given a private audience with our Holy Father, what would you wear and why?

Well the Pope is Jesus’ Vicar, he is not Christ. So, if the Pope deserves our best, can we say any less for Almighty God? How we act at Church and what we wear is NOT about God, it is about how much we honor, respect, and love God…it is a reflection of us, not God.

People who wear suits to work, and shorts to Mass, have it all messed up.

 

[cue]

I am not concerned about the Church not requiring headcoverings.
I wear my cover because the Holy Spirit moves me to do so. It assists me in remembering humility, modesty and obedience.

I am very glad that you can see this prompting of the Holy Ghost in your life. I commend you for your obedience to this prompting. However, I would like to address one line in your post.

If the Church decided to enforce the wearing of headcoverings I don’t think it would be a positive step. It either comes from the heart or not.

I spoke a little about this in a previous post. It is not a good idea to discard a gesture, custom, etc. because it becomes mindless or the heart is not in it. Rather, we need to strive to pour our heart into it. God created us as body and spirit. Thus our actions influence two ‘realms’–bodily and spiritual. The Sacraments reflect this understanding; they are visible signs that convey invisible grace. God knows that since we are both body and spirit, we love with both body and spirit. So in the Sacraments our bodies are drawn to God by the bodily actions and the spirit is nourishes by the grace of the Trinity. These bodily actions help foster the humble and loving spiritual dispositions. Becuase we are body and spirit, we grow spiritually through external actions and external actions effect spiritual dispositions. Therefore, our spiritual love for must be manifested in how we live bodily and if that bodily life is immoral, we cannot say that we are loving God.
If the church mandated that women cover their heads, not all women will understand it or put their hearts into it. But this mandate opens the door for that spirit of humility, modesty, and obedience that you experience. The Church requires that her faithful attend Mass every Sunday. This does not make it worthless, since many may do it mindlessly, but a great opportunity for spiritual growth. One more example and I will end. If a husband stops feeling love for his wife, the last thing he should do is divorce her. He has entered a responsbility that he no longer has his heart in. The answer is that he must pour his heart and love upon his wife and family. The problem is not with his family or wife, but with his heart. In other words, the problem is not really external, but internal. The change or fix, then, occurs on that internal level. If he is externally still married to his wife, that external action fosters and models what should be happening spiritually, internally. If he leaves his wife, this external help is gone and it becomes even harder for him to live as he is called. I realize that this is a complex example, but I am drwaing on the main ideas (since there are many other specific factors that could come into play here).

 

[cue]

ICXCNIKA,
To respond to your original question, I think this thread has demonstrated the tremendous value and rich tradition of a woman covering her head in church. It is a good thing. The problem seems to be with the relationship between youself and your wife (It seems you have a good understanding of the head covering issue). In my experience, women are particularly attacked by our culture of death (or anti-culture). There is a lot of pressure placed on women to conform. Even if they are able to come to a counter-cultural conlusion (modesty, wearing veils, etc.) through reason, that pressure is very real and influential. Thus they might not do what they know is the right thing (through reasoning) because of the pressure of the fact that no one else is doing it. Men frequently do this as well, however, I think the pressure is much harder on women. So we can know things are right but we hesitate to do them because they do not quite feel right.
If that is the case, you can argue forever about the validity of the custom and nothing will change, because the problem is not intellectual but affective. She knows what’s right, but you need to help her feel that she is right. Asserting your authority over her, if this is the case, will not help. She knows you ‘own’ this choice (custom) but she needs and wants to be able to ‘own’ it herself (assert her own authority, so to speak, in choosing this custom). This could be why you perceive this resistance as rebellious. This is just a guess on my part and I am assuming a lot, but take it or leave it; I hope it helps.

 

[Tom317]

Ed Peters is a canon lawyer par excellence. Here’s his take on whether Canon Law still requires head covering.

In short, no.

Terrible lawyer, he ignored many Canons, which is typical of people that want to prove their point of view.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Terrible lawyer, he ignored many Canons, which is typical of people that want to prove their point of view.

Well, the canon law community thinks otherwise of Dr. Peters, who is a much-respected canonist. I wonder, do you have a source from a generally acceptable canonist (one who would not be suspected due to radical opinions either disciplinary or doctrinal) who supports your view?

BTW - if something has been observed by law it has not been observed with the intention of forming a custom, and thus cannot create a custom protected by force of law. If a “custom” could gain legal force in that way it would be necessary to explicitly abrogate every single provision of every law sufficiently old in order to rescind a mandate - it would be impossible to concisely say in any meaningful way, as the 1983 CIC does, that the Pio-Benedictine code is abrogated.