Healing misunderstandings and wounds through charitable dialogue

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TrueLight said:
But isn’t that the easy way out - to dismiss certain opinions as latinizations? That prevents you from having an open mind and maybe learn something?

If celebrate when some egg you on, but block out completely those who have a different view, is that a good thing?
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Open my mind to what? The point of this thread was to learn what is the Eastern faith. One person is insisting that the belief is based on Latin teaching. To open my mind on that is to accept Latinization. I am saying what is the Eastern teaching and the Eastern faith. I can’t change that position because it is not up to me to change that, I am not a Father of the faith. If there are Eastern parishes that profess a Latinized faith, well, that happens. I mean, does every RC parish follow the GIRM? So don’t tell me that just because one Eastern parish doesn’t faithfully follow Eastern tradition it means that is our faith. It is like saying, why is this RC parish doing Mass this way (abuse filled), should I assume that is how Mass should be celebrated?
 
Peter_J said:
:confused: Presumably that’s not the only alternative.
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What other alternatives to an open mind exist but a closed one?
TrueLight said:
But isn’t that the easy way out - to dismiss certain opinions as latinizations? That prevents you from having an open mind and maybe learn something? ?
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Peter_J said:
Not necessarily. Consider: no one can be expected to constantly reconsider every belief that they hold, simply because they’re aware of people who disagree.
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Marybeloved said:
So they’re expected to constantly keep a closed- mind about other perspectives?
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Peter_J said:
:confused: Presumably that’s not the only alternative.
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Hey, How do you do that neat thing of quoting quotes inside of quotes? 🤷
 
Marybeloved said:
But Constantine, How would you truly know they were false if you’re never open to considering a different point of view? How would anyone?
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What I put forth is authentic Eastern teaching which is part of our traditions and has been taught by the Fathers for 2000 years. What do I need to open my mind to? The ramblings of a layperson who knows absolutely nothing about Eastern spirituality? Over the teachings of the Eastern Fathers?
 
Humility is the foundation of all the other virtues hence, in the soul in which this virtue does not exist there cannot be any other virtue except in mere appearance.

~ St. Augustine
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Humility is the foundation of all the other virtues hence, in the soul in which this virtue does not exist there cannot be any other virtue except in mere appearance.

~ St. Augustine
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Are you saying that to be humble is to give up the truth? Sorry, but we have a long list of saints who had fiery attitudes when it comes to defending the truth. Stubbornness for the truth is not a sin.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Are you saying that to be humble is to give up the truth? Sorry, but we have a long list of saints who had fiery attitudes when it comes to defending the truth. Stubbornness for the truth is not a sin.
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Surely, you’re not saying that Latin traditions (even more, Catholic doctrine) are lies you must defend the Truth from?
 
Marybeloved said:
Surely, you’re not saying that Latin traditions (even more, Catholic doctrine) are lies you must defend the Truth from?
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As I said over and over. You don’t expect an American living in America to live Japanese culture. It is not about whether Japanese culture is good or bad, the fact is the American is American, and therefore should live the life of an American.

Should we remove kneeling at all Roman Catholic parishes? Should we start using leavened bread for Mass?
 
Marybeloved said:
What other alternatives to an open mind exist but a closed one?
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What I mean is, there are alternatives to “constantly reconsidering every belief that they hold” and “constantly keeping a closed- mind about other perspectives”.

Does one of those two (“constantly reconsidering every belief” or “constantly keeping a closed- mind about other perspectives”) describe you? Probably not.
 
Peter_J said:
What I mean is, there are alternatives to “constantly reconsidering every belief that they hold” and “constantly keeping a closed- mind about other perspectives”.

Does one of those two (“constantly reconsidering every belief” or “constantly keeping a closed- mind about other perspectives”) describe you? Probably not.
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Anyway Peter, you made that comment when I told Constantine that he needed to be open minded. Since he is considering breaking with Peter, then he should consider other viewpoints before making such a faith-altering decision.
 
TrueLight said:
Anyway Peter, you made that comment when I told Constantine that he needed to be open minded. Since he is considering breaking with Peter, then he should consider other viewpoints before making such a faith-altering decision.
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Thank you for getting us back to trunk that we branched off from. 🙂 I’ll wait for his next post before commenting.
 
TrueLight said:
Whether Eastern Catholics or Latin Catholics, we are Catholic and we should understand what we both believe. In fact, our differences, should not be monumental, otherwise, why do we call each other Catholic?

I don’t feel I am getting a balanced sense of what EC’s believe in this thread not because I don’t’ want to accept the answer, but because only a few have chosen to respond.

And Constantine, no offense, but you are so close to the Orthodox side in your spiritual journey (as you’ve publicly made known), your view is definitely colored by Orthodox goggles.
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I think he might fit right in among Melkite Catholics. (Unfortunately Melkites are few and far between in North America.)
 
Fone_Bone_2001 said:
The one thing I still don’t know is whether the current rules that apply in various Oriental Catholic Churches permit such routine, case-by-case exercises of economy regarding reception of Holy Communion, or whether the current rules have essentially imposed a Latin approach on them.
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Could you clarify what you mean by Oriental Catholic?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Unity or not, over 30 pages of this thread have been dedicated to repeated postings about not having any difference.
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Constantine, you and I both know those particular postings are erroneous.

Falsehood doesn’t become truth no matter how many times it’s repeated. Why should it bother us that some people persist in the inaccurate belief that eastern Christianity and western Christianity are the same?
Peter_J said:
Could you clarify what you mean by Oriental Catholic?
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I meant all Catholics who are not members of the Latin Church: so any/all of the twenty-two eastern Catholic churches.

I think when I made that post, I avoided “eastern Catholic” because I didn’t want to give the impression I was referring only to Byzantine Catholics, since dzheremi - who isn’t a Byzantine at all - was the source of one of our primary examples of how Orthodox may sometimes receive Holy Communion before confessing a serious sin, if their pastor approves.

Unfortunately, I acknowledge that there’s really no adequately dependable catch-all term. “Eastern Catholic” to some means “Byzantine Catholic,” whereas “Oriental Catholic” to others means “non-Byzantine Eastern Catholics.” Ah, well.
 
Fone_Bone_2001 said:
I meant all Catholics who are not members of the Latin Church: so any/all of the twenty-two eastern Catholic churches.

I think when I made that post, I avoided “eastern Catholic” because I didn’t want to give the impression I was referring only to Byzantine Catholics, since dzheremi - who isn’t a Byzantine at all - was the source of one of our primary examples of how Orthodox may sometimes receive Holy Communion before confessing a serious sin, if their pastor approves.

Unfortunately, I acknowledge that there’s really no adequately dependable catch-all term. “Eastern Catholic” to some means “Byzantine Catholic,” whereas “Oriental Catholic” to others means “non-Byzantine Eastern Catholics.” Ah, well.
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OIC. This is, as a matter of fact, something I’ve been wondering about recently.

On the one hand, official publications generally use “Eastern Catholic” and “Oriental Catholic” interchangeably. On the other hand, I seem to recall “Eastern Catholics” being used to mean only Byzantine Catholics, and “Oriental Catholics” to mean all others (other than Latin Catholics, that is) – but I haven’t been able to find anything to back up my “memory”. What I have been able to find is many webpages that speak of “Eastern and Oriental Catholics” but with no definitions.
 
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