Health care is not a business but a service to life says Pope Francis

[SAVINGRACE]

"Pope Francis said, any public policy or private initiative regarding health care that does not make the dignity of the human person its central concern “engenders attitudes that can even lead to exploitation of the misfortune of others. And this is very serious.

VATICAN CITY - A nation’s health-care system cannot be run simply as a business because human lives are at stake, Pope Francis said.
“If there is a sector in which the ‘throwaway culture’ demonstrates its most painful consequences, it is the health-care sector,” the pope told patients, medical professionals, pastors and volunteers attending a meeting sponsored by the Italian bishops’ national office for health-care ministry.
Anticipating the celebration Feb. 12 of the World Day of the Sick and marking the 20th anniversary of the bishops’ office, the pope said Catholics obviously give thanks for the advances in medicine and technology that have enabled doctors to cure or provide better care for the sick.

He also praised medical personnel who carry out their work as “ministers of life and participants in the affectionate love of God the creator. Each day their hands touch the suffering body of Christ, and this is a great honor and a great responsibility,” he said.

But, the pope said, any public policy or private initiative regarding health care that does not make the dignity of the human person its central concern “engenders attitudes that can even lead to exploitation of the misfortune of others. And this is very serious.

“Indiscriminately adopting a business model in health care, instead of optimizing resources,” he said, risks treating some of the sick as disposable. “Optimizing resources means using them in an ethical way, with solidarity, and not penalizing the most fragile.”

Protecting human life from the moment of conception to the moment of natural death means that “money alone cannot guide political and administrative choices” in health care, he said. And the increasing lack of health care “among the poorest segments of the population, due to lack of access to care, must leave no one indifferent.”

cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/02/11/health-care-not-business-service-life-pope-says/

 

[RPRPsych]

:clapping:

 

[Michael_Mayo]

As long as private insurance rules I think human dignity will always be a secondary concern. Insurers have bottom line responsibilities to their shareholders. That is why a government insurance option is needed.

 

[Tim_D]

I remember back in the 80s when the Vatican worked very hard to get itself out of the red and has maintained that attitude since. Health care, like any other service driven industry, is not free and actually costs lots of money. It is irresponsible to drive up millions, if not billions or in the case of the US, trillions, of dollars of debt to leave to future generations to deal with. There is no magic solution to provide first-class healthcare to all people.

 

[Pulvis]

One of the most bone headed acts that Ronald Reagan did was deregulating the health care industry. Hospitals should not be profit generators. Individual Doctors are entitled to a decent living, but what Reagan did was to allow a handful of corporations to gobble up the vast majority of hospitals across the country. I would remind all that this ruling caused many Catholic hospitals to close. Now we have several giant corporations owning most hospitals, clinics and urgent care facilities, thus creating a monopoly and forcing the public to subsidize their dividend machine.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The “For Profit,” healthcare system we have is the problem.

Some people believe in a market place approach to healthcare, which will make it competitive, but this does not exist in the healthcare industry.

First off, you’re relying on the medical advice of your doctor, and specialists, who will be the one’s to order various treatments or surgeries for you, should you need it.

Being a lay person without in depth medical knowledge, how are you going to discern if what they’re advising is need or not ? Get a second opinion you say ? Again, you’re going to another medical expert, who provide advice, which will usually coincide with your primary care physician, or if his/her advice goes against, how will you know ?

Then of course, when your doctor sends you for a colonoscopy, do you go shopping for the cheapest place to get it, or do you go to the institution which your doctor is connected to ?

Lastly, your in an ambulance being sent to an ER because of an life threatening accident your were just in. How are you going to negotiate in the market place for the best ER to be sent to with the lowest cost ?

The free market place in healthcare, does not exist except between the insurance companies and they’re responsible for forcing us to have health insurance in the first place.

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

Being a lay person without in depth medical knowledge, how are you going to discern if what they’re advising is need or not ? Get a second opinion you say ? Again, you’re going to another medical expert, who provide advice, which will usually coincide with your primary care physician, or if his/her advice goes against, how will you know ?

Then why not do what people did before the advent of modern healthcare and diagnose yourself? Healthcare is supposedly a “right,” we want competent doctors and we want treatments that are successful but we think that others should just provide this either for free or for minimal expense.

If your car needs a new alternator, the price of the part and an hour of shop time will take care of that. That is a world of difference from a doctor or surgeon who diagnose an ailment, opens your body, removes, fixes or replaces something that will allow you to live a full and healthy life.

We go to a plethora of specialized people in our lives, accountants, lawyers, financial advisors and so on who survive and thrive by charging for their services. I am at a loss why people think that healthcare should somehow be different.

 

[MT1926]

As long as private insurance rules I think human dignity will always be a secondary concern. Insurers have bottom line responsibilities to their shareholders. That is why a government insurance option is needed.

I agree with your first point, the insurance companies are the problem. That’s why I’ve often said the only shareholders in an insurance company should be the policy holders. If you don’t end up using your insurance this year you get a dividen back from the profits of the insurance company. Aside from an emergency fund, say 300 million, all excess funds are paid back to the policy holders, not shareholders.

I disagree with your second point. The US government is no different than a big Corp. They have other invested interests, it wouldn’t take long before they start funneling money into other programs, just like they do with Social security.

In either case this is no quick and easy fix, there are far more underlying issues that play into the entire healthcare system. Like malpractice cases getting out of hand, Medicaid paying less than it costs to treat a patient, government policies effecting businesses, taxes, etc…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Tim_D;

Then why not do what people did before the advent of modern healthcare and diagnose yourself?

Are you serious ?

How are you going to discern if you need a colonoscopy or not ?

How are you going to discern that the cough you have, isn’t just a common cold?

I had a friend who thought the abdominal pain he had, along with the fever, was a virus.

He was sure he’d get over it, and even thought it was all because he hadn’t been exercising enough. He put off calling the doctor, despite his wife telling him he should.

Finally, another friend stopped over to see him and told him, either you let me take you to the ER, or I’m calling an ambulance. He agreed and went to the ER

They had to rush him into surgery, for his appendix ruptured. Gangrene had set into his intestines and they removed a couple of feet. He was so bad, he went into cardiac arrest on the operating table, and they had to revive him with the electric paddles.

Self diagnose ?

No, don’t try it.

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

Self diagnose ?

No, don’t try it.

Then don’t criticize the people that you place your trust in for medical advice!!! In your post you suggested that doctors send you for tests to the facilities they are affiliated with instead of shopping around for the cheapest price or “how are you going to negotiate in the market place for the best ER to be sent to with the lowest cost.” Once again, people want the service and the best results but think that it should be given to them only at the price they wish to pay. The world doesn’t work like that. If it did, I’d be eating prime rib every night.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Then don’t criticize the people that you place your trust in for medical advice!!! In your post you suggested that doctors send you for tests to the facilities they are affiliated with instead of shopping around for the cheapest price or “how are you going to negotiate in the market place for the best ER to be sent to with the lowest cost.” Once again, people want the service and the best results but think that it should be given to them only at the price they wish to pay. The world doesn’t work like that. If it did, I’d be eating prime rib every night.

The reality is, you can not shop for an ER, when you’re in an ambulance being taken there because of a heart attack.

Same is true with other medical procedures, and being you don’t have medical expertise, you must have some level of trust with your doctor.

Of course everyone is responsible for their own health and should communicate with their doctor as well as they can.

However, there are many people, especially when their sick, who don’t have that option.

There is no market place competition for healthcare, only for insurance companies.

It’s why a single payer universal healthcare system is the only one where everyone will get good quality healthcare.

Jim

 

[ringil]

We go to a plethora of specialized people in our lives, accountants, lawyers, financial advisors and so on who survive and thrive by charging for their services. I am at a loss why people think that healthcare should somehow be different.

Healthcare is a fundamental right for all people. The Pope and Bishops have clearly stated this.

 

[Brendan]

The “For Profit,” healthcare system we have is the problem.

How about the Blue Cross network then? They are non-profits. And there are the Catholic hospital systems, they are non-profits as well.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

How about the Blue Cross network then? They are non-profits. And there are the Catholic hospital systems, they are non-profits as well.

Blue Cross is a non-profit.

However, there were caught paying their board of directors, 6 and 7 digit salaries.

Even hospitals which are non-profit, pay their administrators seven digit salaries.

The profit is in their salaries.

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

Healthcare is a fundamental right for all people. The Pope and Bishops have clearly stated this.

Saying it doesn’t always make it so.

Think about it: suppose someone has a brain tumor. Do they honestly have a “right” to a person who spent many, many years of study and personal expense, a “right” to a facility that can allow delicate technological and medicinal tests to aid in diagnosis and treatment, a “right” to a support staff that facilities all of the composite acts, and a “right” to have someone with the medical and surgical know how to open your skull, remove the tumor, repair what may be damaged and see that you, not only survive, but recover to a healthy extent? Does anyone have a “fundamental right” to have other people go to school, study, gain knowledge and experience and be available to one in case they need their expertise?

It is sort of like saying one has a “right” to a local grocery store that provides good quality, low-priced food for purchase. The only reason that you would have that “right” is if someone else decided to pursue a course of action in that direction. In the same vein, we only have the existence of medical care in this country because people decide to pursue that course of action in an effort to help others. I certainly do not believe that people go into medicine just because they can make a lot of money. Instead of vilifying and second guessing doctors and their motivations, we should be thankful that we have them at our disposal.

 

[Tim_D]

The reality is, you can not shop for an ER, when you’re in an ambulance being taken there because of a heart attack.

You’re kidding, right? You’re having a heart attack and you are more concerned about finding the cheapest treatment available?

Think of it this way; imagine all the money you would save by staying at home and dying.

 

[Tim_D]

A very pertinent quote that succinctly sums up what I was trying to say: “It’s easy to talk about a fundamental “right to healthcare,” but the issue gets complicated when one realizes that entitling a person to certain time and resources means putting an obligation on someone else to provide the same.”

 

[Brendan]

Blue Cross is a non-profit.

However, there were caught paying their board of directors, 6 and 7 digit salaries.

Even hospitals which are non-profit, pay their administrators seven digit salaries.

The profit is in their salaries.

Jim

So…, what is the*going rate for someone with the experience to run a multi billion dollar large enterprise?

Isa BCBS any less complex to operate than afor-profit insurer? Here in Michigan, our BCBS affiliate is a 24 Billion dollar operation. What is the going rate for a person with the experience to operate that business. If a CxO position*was open, what would be the competitive salary needed to obtain a candidate with the education and proven experience needed to perform the job?

If you put in your resume for the position and offered to do the job for 5 figures instead of 7, would they take you? Why not? *

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You’re kidding, right? You’re having a heart attack and you are more concerned about finding the cheapest treatment available?

No, I’m arguing against such and idea.

How you got that I support shopping for an ER is beyond me.

I was giving an example why healthcare is not a free market venue, like buying a computer or a car.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A very pertinent quote that succinctly sums up what I was trying to say: “It’s easy to talk about a fundamental “right to healthcare,” but the issue gets complicated when one realizes that entitling a person to certain time and resources means putting an obligation on someone else to provide the same.”

If the technology is available to treat a certain illness, a person in fact has a right to it.

If they don’t have the right, then the argument that the unborn have a right to life fails, as they can come into the world on their own. Some one has to deliver the baby and then support it for at least the first 18 years of its life.

Of course the unborn have a right to life, but so do people have a right to the healthcare that is available.

Jim