Health care is not a business but a service to life says Pope Francis

[MT1926]

If the technology is available to treat a certain illness, a person in fact has a right to it.

If they don’t have the right, then the argument that the unborn have a right to life fails, as they can come into the world on their own. Some one has to deliver the baby and then support it for at least the first 18 years of its life.

Of course the unborn have a right to life, but so do people have a right to the healthcare that is available.

Jim

I don’t disagree with the right to life, but I think you are comparing apples and oranges. You at trying to equate a babies right to life with a persons right to an MRI.

If technology is available the person does have a right to it, but I don’t agree they have a right to have it for free. If I’m going to shell out 3 million for an MRI unit that has an annual operating cost of 100k and will need replaced in about 10 years. I better see atleast some profit on my investment or what was the sense of buying an MRI in the first place.

I agree we need better access to low cost healthcare in this country, however making it free would cause more harm than good in the long run.

Like I said in an earlier post there is a lot more pieces to the puzzle than just giving away free care.

 

[SuperLuigi]

But, the pope said, any public policy or private initiative regarding health care that does not make the dignity of the human person its central concern “engenders attitudes that can even lead to exploitation of the misfortune of others. And this is very serious.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If the technology is available to treat a certain illness, a person in fact has a right to it.

If they don’t have the right, then the argument that the unborn have a right to life fails, as they can come into the world on their own. Some one has to deliver the baby and then support it for at least the first 18 years of its life.

Of course the unborn have a right to life, but so do people have a right to the healthcare that is available.

Jim

In order for it to be available, it needs to cost less, have an incentive for workers and not be managed by government.

 

[Brendan]

If the technology is available to treat a certain illness, a person in fact has a right to it.Jim

And what does it mean for the technology to ‘be available’? *If there is one unit in a city, who has the right to access it? the one who lives closest? How about one that lives in another city, or another country?

Ifthe person who needs it most lives in another country, whois responsible for transporting them?

If it is only for someone inthe country where the machine resides, does that mean that people in one country have more rights to health care than people inthe other country?

 

[Tim_D]

How you got that I support shopping for an ER is beyond me.

The reality is, you can not shop for an ER, when you’re in an ambulance being taken there because of a heart attack.

 

[Tim_D]

Like I said in an earlier post there is a lot more pieces to the puzzle than just giving away free care.

But that is what people don’t understand; in order for them to get it free or even cheap, then someone else must be compelled to provide the service. Who absorbs the cost from that end?

 

[Tim_D]

If the technology is available to treat a certain illness, a person in fact has a right to it.

Says who? You? If an organization builds a facility, equips it with the latest technology and staffs it with qualified people in the medical profession, then where does your “right” to their technology and services derive? If the providers of this facility cannot make money to pay their bills and the salaries of their employees, then that place won’t exist for long. What, then, of your “right?”

What nonsense.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Tim_D:
Gesh, I posted that you CAN NOT shop for an ER while in an ambulance.

How you translate that into I support shopping for an ER ?

The post was my argument against those who believe healthcare should be a free market system.

Its not and can’t be, because of the reasons I posted.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MT

I

don’t disagree with the right to life, but I think you are comparing apples and oranges. You at trying to equate a babies right to life with a persons right to an MRI.

An MRI can help save your life, you have a right to it, if you’re pro-life.

If technology is available the person does have a right to it,

So you would deny a person having an emergency appendectomy if he can’t pay for the surgery, because he doesn’t have a right to it ? :

A person shows up at an ER with a large cut through his thigh, he has no right to receive medical treatment ?

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Says who? You? If an organization builds a facility, equips it with the latest technology and staffs it with qualified people in the medical profession, then where does your “right” to their technology and services derive? If the providers of this facility cannot make money to pay their bills and the salaries of their employees, then that place won’t exist for long. What, then, of your “right?”

What nonsense.

So you support letting people who can’t pay for treatments at such facilities to die, because they have no right to the available healthcare.

OK I get it.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But that is what people don’t understand; in order for them to get it free or even cheap, then someone else must be compelled to provide the service. Who absorbs the cost from that end?

Who absorbs the cost for unnecessary wars ?

How is the same people absorbing the cost for healthcare immoral ?

Jim

 

[graciew]

If the technology is available to treat a certain illness, a person in fact has a right to it.

If they don’t have the right, then the argument that the unborn have a right to life fails, as they can come into the world on their own. Some one has to deliver the baby and then support it for at least the first 18 years of its life.

Of course the unborn have a right to life, but so do people have a right to the healthcare that is available.

Jim

I agree with you ,Jim. Wholeheartedly.
It can be done.And improved where it is being fostered.
So much of people s money is administered so badly,and taxes go for such an amount of unnecessary stuff,that public or private( and as education,I pray it to be public and good…) there is little excuse not to improve it.
Aside from the heaps of money obscenly stolen by administrators in different parts of the planet.
What do we live for if not?
Mist people do not have access to the basics worldwide. There has got to be bright minds finding a way round this. Come on young people! Think hard!

 

[Tim_D]

So you support letting people who can’t pay for treatments at such facilities to die, because they have no right to the available healthcare.

OK I get it.

Jim

Never said that…don’t appreciate you putting those words into my mouth.

 

[Tim_D]

Who absorbs the cost for unnecessary wars ?

How is the same people absorbing the cost for healthcare immoral ?

You’re off the deep end, now. How much debt are you willing to foster until the burden of it collapses upon future generations?

 

[Tim_D]

An MRI can help save your life, you have a right to it, if you’re pro-life.

Thats absurd. It is people like you who are rendering the term “pro-life” to be meaningless.

 

[graciew]

Thats absurd. It is people like you who are rendering the term “pro-life” to be meaningless.

Well,make it Life.
Life and hope for all people.
let’ s add,not substract,Tim.
Persons helping unborn do not stop working hard,let us do the same for other persons as well.

 

[MT1926]

An MRI can help save your life, you have a right to it, if you’re pro-life.

I’m guessing you didn’t mean if you aren’t prolife you don’t deserve an MRI?

Just wanted to let you know an MRI can’t save your life. It can diagnose a problem better that’s it. Skilled doctors save lives not machines. People tend to forget that you get what you pay for. If I’m laying wide open on a table I think I’d rather have my surgeon thinking about me and not be standing their stressed and worried about his mortgage or kids college tuition. I’m not sure the average salary of surgeons in my area but just curious what do you think a person that pays about a half million dollars for college and gives up 8 to 12 years of their lives deserves to get paid from the people that have a free right to what they worked for.

So you would deny a person having an emergency appendectomy if he can’t pay for the surgery, because he doesn’t have a right to it ? :

A person shows up at an ER with a large cut through his thigh, he has no right to receive medical treatment ?

Jim

. You must live in a different area than I do. We have no insurance, had to take the wife to the ER on Thanksgiving for kidney stones. The hospital did not ask for a penny when they admitted her, did a CT, meds, and surgery the next day and a follow up surgery a week later. Even after the second surgery they still didn’t even ask for a down payment. I don’t want to assume your area of the country is the same but your quote here is a non issue in my community.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MT1926;

Just wanted to let you know an MRI can’t save your life.

So people who had an MRI and they discovered a tumor, the MRI wasn’t part of a life saving procedure ?

I had a colonoscopy, they found a cancerous tumor. Did the colonoscopy contribute to my survival ?

Fact is, without it, the tumor would’ve grown and probably killed me, for it had already gone through the wall of my colon.

Being pro-life means believing all life as sacred, not just the unborn.

The elderly, those with birth defects, everyone, has a right to healthcare that is available to them.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MT1926;

.

You must live in a different area than I do. We have no insurance, had to take the wife to the ER on Thanksgiving for kidney stones. The hospital did not ask for a penny when they admitted her, did a CT, meds, and surgery the next day and a follow up surgery a week later. Even after the second surgery they still didn’t even ask for a down payment. I don’t want to assume your area of the country is the same but your quote here is a non issue in my community.

So they haven’t sent you a bill ?

If they do and it wipes out your life savings and the hospital puts a lean on your house, will it matter ?

For me, at age 61 when I had colon cancer, having health insurance prevented those things from happening.

If you don’t have the means to pay, guess who does ? Those with health insurance and the taxpayers and it probably could’ve been cheaper had your wife had health insurance and went to her doctor before needing to go to the ER and surgery.

I hope she’s OK BTW,

Jim

 

[MT1926]

Who absorbs the cost for unnecessary wars ?

How is the same people absorbing the cost for healthcare immoral ?

Jim

Jim,

I was ready to respond to this by saying, if you are worried about the costs of unnecessary wars why on earth would you want to put our health care dollars in the hands of the government who wastes money on these wars. However, as I was typing I realized you never offered any solutions all you said was everyone should have a right. If I’m jumping to this conclusion and you are not for governnet run health care ignore the top sentence. However, it still leaves the question what would you suggest then?

One more question. If everyone has a free right to the surgeon does said surgeon have a right to dictate how the patient lives. For example does the oncologist get to dictate smokers don’t have a right to his service because said smoker does not value his God given gift of life by intentionally ingesting toxins? How about the heart surgeon, does he have to give away 4 open heart surgeries on the guy that won’t quit eating chicken wings and drinking at the bar every night?

Don’t get me wrong I’m not against helping the less fortunate, I do it every day in my practice. I’m just saying it is not as cut and dry as it seems.