Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steave
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Do you set expectations for your children? Do you let them know when theyare not acting in a responsible manner? Do you look out for them and provide oversight when they engage in self destructive behavior? Do you do all that out of anything other than love?
Expetations have to be reasonable. Not all children’s abilities are the same. Some are mathmatical minded, some write well, some can multitask better than others. So many parents parent like they are doing it out of a one size fits all manual, because they don not take the time to know what makes their child tick. Then when the child doesnt fit their one size fits all mode, they take their dislike of that out on the child. Get to know your children people!
 
I agree with most of what you say with the exception of those comments summed up by:
That doesn’t mean that those who did make that mistake should be lumped in with those whom you disdain.
Disdain is not a factor. The way I see it Those on welfare fall into two categories those who can’t and those who won’t (work or what ever). In these threads the discussions of the two tend to overlap. We need to treat both groups firmly but any harshness should be limmitted to those in the won’t. Those who can’t: are divided into two categories, those who have a physical limitation and those who have a mental limitation. For those with a physical limitation, we need to work to help maximize the opportunities for them to contribute. For those with mental limitations, we also ned to work as a society to help maximise the opportunities to contribute but we also need to provide them with protection from their limitations.

Sorry if I am not touchy feely sensative enough for anyone.
 
St Francis, I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. It just sounds like a lot of people on here want to say it’s not these people’s fault, that there’s nothing they could have done; that they are all just victims. But there is more to it than that. Like I keep saying not everyone is covered by what I discussed, but there are way too many people who are. I don’t like irresponsibility being excused because “it’s not their fault.” It’s what leads us even further into trouble. We don’t correct anyone, we just enable. I’m not even saying that we shouldn’t help people who bring problems on themselves, but we shouldn’t be required to.

The way some people, not necessarily you, are defending these people’s poor choices sometimes makes it hard to express the proper attitude when responding and the irritation at the poster comes through as irritation at the people.
If you believe I don’t believe in correcting people. Just ask my 3 brothers and 4 sisters. They will set any questioning of that straight. But if we start correcting people, whoe’s standarsds are we going t use? If you use strict standards like my parent’s, expect riots out in the streets, and me to be at the head of them
 
St Francis, I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. It just sounds like a lot of people on here want to say it’s not these people’s fault, that there’s nothing they could have done; that they are all just victims. But there is more to it than that. Like I keep saying not everyone is covered by what I discussed, but there are way too many people who are. I don’t like irresponsibility being excused because “it’s not their fault.” It’s what leads us even further into trouble. We don’t correct anyone, we just enable. I’m not even saying that we shouldn’t help people who bring problems on themselves, but we shouldn’t be required to.

The way some people, not necessarily you, are defending these people’s poor choices sometimes makes it hard to express the proper attitude when responding and the irritation at the poster comes through as irritation at the people.
We should help the people if the help does not make their situation worse.
 
It can be very difficult, I know, and I myself have done that.

There are a lot of people out there who have acted irresponsibly, but so many more who when you talk with them, it turns out that there were mitigating factors.

I started off as quite Republican, but now have moved over into the “if it ain’t Catholic, it ain’t gonna work anyway” category, so I vote to contain the damage more than in the hopes that anything will change for the better.
FYI I don’t think any of us are concerned with the first time or occasional mistakes, The concern comes with the reccuring issues of those who after given several chances, keep making simmilar errors of judgement.

For the reccord I am all for short term safety nets such as unemployment.
 
Perhaps I made the same mistake with you that Arwen made with me!

It seems from your wording that you are talking about a friendly or loving situation as you suggest in your post which I quoted below, which is quite different from what I had gathered before from your posts.

I think that charitable organisations, having more flexibility than the government could allow itself, would be more able to help those in need in a wholistic manner. They would be able to sort through the full needs. For example, a woman I know who is very poor and caring for her sister could be better helped by the addition of some basic home ec information and also some help with minor repairs around the house. She’s not going to get that from the government, and she would probably resent some sort of government-imposed “oversight.”

I also think that charities would be independent of certain types of goals imposed from without (as long as we really do keep government out of their hair).
One of the advantages of not being touchy feely is that I am not easily offended. One of the disadvantages of being a creative thinker is that I am frequently mis-understood.

I wish the Churches and other organizations would offer more adult and pre-adult education. I have wanted to teach courses on workplace topics but there isn’t much demand if you can not offer a degreee with the education.
 
If you believe I don’t believe in correcting people. Just ask my 3 brothers and 4 sisters. They will set any questioning of that straight. But if we start correcting people, whoe’s standarsds are we going t use? If you use strict standards like my parent’s, expect riots out in the streets, and me to be at the head of them
How about we use the standards of “chips are bad for you, apples are good for you” and “be a contributing member of society.” How about we use the standards of working hard not goofing off at work. Standards of good customer service. If we got these ideas through to the people who choose not to work, or can’t keep a job because they keep getting fired, then we’d be in better shape. We correct destructive behaviors.

And you have some serious problems. Lynchings, larceny, and now you want to start riots. Riots are not the answer no matter what the problem is. Riots cause problems for innocent people.
 
If you believe I don’t believe in correcting people. Just ask my 3 brothers and 4 sisters. They will set any questioning of that straight. But if we start correcting people, whoe’s standarsds are we going t use? If you use strict standards like my parent’s, expect riots out in the streets, and me to be at the head of them
I think that when it comes to standards, we have to allow those who have authority over the person to set the standards for that person. Like if we see someone on the job in a store but talking on the cell phone, we might say a kindly word to them, but otherwise leave it up to the boss of the person. Or if we see a problem customer, not talk with the customer ourselves, but talk with the manager about the problem.

And otherwise, just pray for people.
 
How about we use the standards of “chips are bad for you, apples are good for you” and “be a contributing member of society.” How about we use the standards of working hard not goofing off at work. Standards of good customer service. If we got these ideas through to the people who choose not to work, or can’t keep a job because they keep getting fired, then we’d be in better shape. We correct destructive behaviors.

And you have some serious problems. Lynchings, larceny, and now you want to start riots. Riots are not the answer no matter what the problem is. Riots cause problems for innocent people.
As far as the riot I was using a super extreme example which is my mistake. Basically my parents treated their older children like **** and basically are now cut off from all but their 2 yougest children because how nasty of people they have become, but your way of speaking and thinking reminds me of my mother’s. You should pay good attention to that because of that attitude she is cutoff from all her grandchildren. The reason I got let go from my last job had nothing to do with goofing off, it had more to do with the fact that I wasn’t in the clique, which is what most big company jobs are about thesedays. I had a family friend lawyer look at my pemployee profile and he told me in any state that doesnt have the idiodic atwill employement law theyd have a defamation of character lawsuit and wrongfull firing lawsuit they would be sure to loose. Iv’e worked hard all my life, I’m still waiting for my reward.
 
As far as the riot I was using a super extreme example which is my mistake. Basically my parents treated their older children like **** and basically are now cut off from all but their 2 yougest children because how nasty of people they have become, but your way of speaking and thinking reminds me of my mother’s. You should pay good attention to that because of that attitude she is cutoff from all her grandchildren. The reason I got let go from my last job had nothing to do with goofing off, it had more to do with the fact that I wasn’t in the clique, which is what most big company jobs are about thesedays. I had a family friend lawyer look at my pemployee profile and he told me in any state that doesnt have the idiodic atwill employement law theyd have a defamation of character lawsuit and wrongfull firing lawsuit they would be sure to loose. Iv’e worked hard all my life, I’m still waiting for my reward.
Maybe the reason you’re not in the “clique” is the way you interact with others. Threatening riots, lynchings, larceny, and name calling generally doesn’t endear you to people. But because I think people shouldn’t be leeches means *I *have a nasty attitude? If you can’t get along with people, then don’t blame others that you don’t have a job.
 
Yes, they are the majority.
Here are some statistics from DOL, Bureau of Labor Statistics data:

Series title: (unadj)- Employed wage and salary workers paid hourly rates, Total at or below prevailing federal minimum wage, 16 years and over (A), 16 to 24 years(B), 25 years and over (C) (number in thousands)
Earnings: Total at or below prevailing federal minimum wage
Industry: All Industries
Occupation: All Occupations
Sex: Both Sexes
Race: All Races
Ethnic origin: All Origins
Class of worker: Wage and salary workers, excluding incorporated self employed
Labor force status: Employed

Year (2008 is the latest)
2006 (a)104 (b)816 (c)826
2007 (a)111 (b)814 (c)915
2008 (a)133 (b)1122 (c)1104

I don’t know any 24 years old high schooler. If you read the title in bold, yes there are people that earn below the federal minimum wage.

Sorry, but they are not the majority.

May God Bless you,
 
I agree with most of what you say with the exception of those comments summed up by:

Disdain is not a factor. The way I see it Those on welfare fall into two categories those who can’t and those who won’t (work or what ever). In these threads the discussions of the two tend to overlap. We need to treat both groups firmly but any harshness should be limmitted to those in the won’t. Those who can’t: are divided into two categories, those who have a physical limitation and those who have a mental limitation. For those with a physical limitation, we need to work to help maximize the opportunities for them to contribute. For those with mental limitations, we also ned to work as a society to help maximise the opportunities to contribute but we also need to provide them with protection from their limitations.

Sorry if I am not touchy feely sensative enough for anyone.
If you work some, but not enough, you get screwed over like I do.
 
Here are some statistics from DOL, Bureau of Labor Statistics data:

Series title: (unadj)- Employed wage and salary workers paid hourly rates, Total at or below prevailing federal minimum wage, 16 years and over (A), 16 to 24 years(B), 25 years and over (C) (number in thousands)
Earnings: Total at or below prevailing federal minimum wage
Industry: All Industries
Occupation: All Occupations
Sex: Both Sexes
Race: All Races
Ethnic origin: All Origins
Class of worker: Wage and salary workers, excluding incorporated self employed
Labor force status: Employed

Year (2008 is the latest)
2006 (a)104 (b)816 (c)826
2007 (a)111 (b)814 (c)915
2008 (a)133 (b)1122 (c)1104

I don’t know any 24 years old high schooler. If you read the title in bold, yes there are people that earn below the federal minimum wage.

Sorry, but they are not the majority.

May God Bless you,
Link?
 
Here are some statistics from DOL, Bureau of Labor Statistics data:

Series title: (unadj)- Employed wage and salary workers paid hourly rates, Total at or below prevailing federal minimum wage, 16 years and over (A), 16 to 24 years(B), 25 years and over (C) (number in thousands)
Earnings: Total at or below prevailing federal minimum wage
Industry: All Industries
Occupation: All Occupations
Sex: Both Sexes
Race: All Races
Ethnic origin: All Origins
Class of worker: Wage and salary workers, excluding incorporated self employed
Labor force status: Employed

Year (2008 is the latest)
2006 (a)104 (b)816 (c)826
2007 (a)111 (b)814 (c)915
2008 (a)133 (b)1122 (c)1104

I don’t know any 24 years old high schooler. If you read the title in bold, yes there are people that earn below the federal minimum wage.

Sorry, but they are not the majority.

May God Bless you,
How about a little perspective?

heritage.org/research/economy/wm1186.cfm
 
Maybe the reason you’re not in the “clique” is the way you interact with others. Threatening riots, lynchings, larceny, and name calling generally doesn’t endear you to people. But because I think people shouldn’t be leeches means *I *have a nasty attitude? If you can’t get along with people, then don’t blame others that you don’t have a job.
The way I am in my personal life should have no effect on a job whatsoever. When applying for a job Im dressed up, soft spoken, and stick to the point( the job) Thats it. A job isn’t social hour, it is time to work and get things done. Anything else ie office politics, or personality cults serve no function in business and when those things hurt good workers are a sin. Basically when at work, I come to work with no mood good or bad and just do my job. . Its how you define leaches and the fact you harp on it that shows a nasty attitude, you are paranoid about it. You’d rather have millions die rather than one leach getting more than they deserve, which is a very unChristian attitude in the eyes of most. If this were 1970, I’d be hired in a job by now, but management even for typical general labor thinks outside the box even in industories that have nothing special about them. Jobs are not about getting thinks done anymore, they are about fitting in the clique.
 
As Catholics, we await our reward in Heaven.
My reward in heaven is too late. Because I don’t have my reward now, my wife’s health goes further into the toilet, my health goes further into the toilet, and I get further and further from living to my potential. You work for a job and heaven have no connection, its you personal life thats basis for heaven , not work life… I work for one reason and one reason only monatary goods. If the business makes a profit, I have a right to share in it when I work. Quite frankly now Id forgo any reward in Heaven to keep my house from being foreclosed on.Oh yes by foreclosing on me, they are foreclosing on a disabled person, my wife.
 
The way I am in my personal life should have no effect on a job whatsoever. When applying for a job Im dressed up, soft spoken, and stick to the point( the job) Thats it. A job isn’t social hour, it is time to work and get things done. Anything else ie office politics, or personality cults serve no function in business and when those things hurt good workers are a sin. Basically when at work, I come to work with no mood good or bad and just do my job. . Its how you define leaches and the fact you harp on it that shows a nasty attitude, you are paranoid about it. You’d rather have millions die rather than one leach getting more than they deserve, which is a very unChristian attitude in the eyes of most. If this were 1970, I’d be hired in a job by now, but management even for typical general labor thinks outside the box even in industories that have nothing special about them. Jobs are not about getting thinks done anymore, they are about fitting in the clique.
I used to feel that way, too, but what I figured out is that it is not up to me to decide how the game is played. If they want schmoozers, I’ll schmooze. I won’t violate my conscience or anything, but I need to accept that this is what is considered an important aspect of team-building or whatever. If they are paying me, then they get to set the rules.
 
Social skills are an important part of work. A idea which you seem to have no concept of, which negatively impacts your ability to maintain a job. Making friends with co-workers is a part of a job. When you disassociate yourself from others, then they tend to dislike you. And if they dislike you, then they won’t want to work with you, then they don’t want you at work. And it’s the employers prerogative to fire employees that contribute to poor moral.

Oh, and so disabled people shouldn’t have to pay their bills, because they’re disabled?

Fine, you think millions are dying because they don’t have health insurance, prove it. Not people who would die with or without the treatments they would get with health care. Not people who die who happen to not have insurance. I want a figure, based in fact, of the number of people who died in this country, because no one would take them without insurance. I don’t think that many people are actually dying from not having health care.

Going bankrupt isn’t dying. And it’s millions of leeches (your word), not one. 1/3 of the country is on government assistance. They may not have a comfy life, they may be in debt, but that’s still alive.

You’d rather one leech got a comfy life that they didn’t earn than one CEO make money he works 40 hrs+ a week for. You’d rather one leech get free health care and be allowed to sit at home and do nothing than let millions keep the money they work for.
 
Social skills are an important part of work. A idea which you seem to have no concept of, which negatively impacts your ability to maintain a job. Making friends with co-workers is a part of a job. When you disassociate yourself from others, then they tend to dislike you. And if they dislike you, then they won’t want to work with you, then they don’t want you at work. And it’s the employers prerogative to fire employees that contribute to poor moral.

Oh, and so disabled people shouldn’t have to pay their bills, because they’re disabled?

Fine, you think millions are dying because they don’t have health insurance, prove it. Not people who would die with or without the treatments they would get with health care. Not people who die who happen to not have insurance. I want a figure, based in fact, of the number of people who died in this country, because no one would take them without insurance. I don’t think that many people are actually dying from not having health care.

Going bankrupt isn’t dying. And it’s millions of leeches (your word), not one. 1/3 of the country is on government assistance. They may not have a comfy life, they may be in debt, but that’s still alive.

You’d rather one leech got a comfy life that they didn’t earn than one CEO make money he works 40 hrs+ a week for. You’d rather one leech get free health care and be allowed to sit at home and do nothing than let millions keep the money they work for.
Haven’t you heard the saying, “better dead than underfed.” 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top