Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

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pathia said:
They are not viable because the conditions are rare. So every single person with a rare condition, should just die? What a monstrous thing to say.
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Actually I don’t think it is monstrous to say that we need to prioritize our resources. Fact is they are limited and so we always have to choose A or B. If A can save thousands of lives and B can only save one, then we must choose A. The fate of B is up to God, who has not endowed us with omnipotence, yet many in this thread talk as if we have it.
 
Many in this thread have asserted that everyone should be able to get health care. Let me throw this out there as food for thought.

How do you define “everyone”? What about all the people that live outside of the USA, many of whom do not even have adequate shelter, water and food?

What bothers me most about the debate in this country is that so many people who argue forcefully for government run healthcare use access for the poor as the argument when what really motivates them is their desire to reduce their personal outlays for their own healthcare. We already have the world’s most enviable system and access for the poor while not perfect is far better than most people think. Have we forgotten about public clinics? Or the willingness of MD’s & hospitals to offer free or reduced cost care?

Has anyone in this thread gone to their own doctor and told him/her you were having financial difficulty and been turned away untreated? Most MD’s would never do that.

What really has everyone’s ire up is not “the uninsured” but the rising costs of our own insurance and the decreasing benefits of same.

Problem is none of the presently debated proposals in DC does a damn thing about fixing that problem and many are likely to make it worse, while at the same time decreasing the quality of our system overall.

And to return to the original post theme - MD’s perspective- I am married to a doctor. So I know one really well and many others less so. Most of them are miserable and counting the days until they can retire. None of them when asked advise young people to go to med school. And there is nothing in the present legislation that will help this problem either.

My husband sums up the real problem with healthcare in America this way, “we have reached the point where we have the ability to do more for patients than we have the ability to pay for.” Why is Healthcare one sixth of our economy and growing? Because the number of tests, drugs and procedures grows and our appetite for these is insatiable. The only solution is rationing of care. One way or another difficult choices must be made. We can allow market forces to make them or hand over that control to our government, but the choices must be made.

And before anyone replies and calls me a monster I’ll return to my original thought with this one last question.

Do you really believe we have the capability to provide everything to everyone?
 
scrapgirl81 said:
Actually I don’t think it is monstrous to say that we need to prioritize our resources. Fact is they are limited and so we always have to choose A or B. If A can save thousands of lives and B can only save one, then we must choose A. The fate of B is up to God, who has not endowed us with omnipotence, yet many in this thread talk as if we have it.
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You do both because both can be done. A is only done because there is more profit in it.
 
LittleSoldier:
I would like to ask you a question about your healthcare system.
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Canada’s problem in health care is in distribution of funds. The effect is now we have
a shortage of doctors in General Family Practice. An enquiry discovered the problem.

The fed government gives it’s funding to a select body who is to maintain the system. They decided to elect doctors to this body. They are to proportion funds to the Health Care of Canadians and to ensure monies get allocated in places it is needed the most.

It turned out the problem was one of conflict of interest. Instead of addressing the exodus early which started to show evidence 20 years ago, they ignored the situation. It turns out the body was allocating funds to higher paying careers in the doctoral profession such has surgery, which also called for recruitment spending in advertising as well has other expenses. Their intent to sway students to higher paying fields within the profession.

General Family Practice is the lowest paid on the scale. Coupled with this is the fact it has the unique problem in that the doctors need to hire secretarial staff and provide separate office and examination rooms and buy expensive equipment. It also usually calls for longer working hours.

So the solution years ago was to assist this profession by helping their financial problem. But the snowball now is unstoppable. We have overtaxed and professionally skilled general practitioners who are eyeing other countries and the ER is getting fuller because people can’t find doctors. I suggest we sack the body and hire new ones, along with independent members who’s job it is to monitor their activity and report to the federal government on a scheduled basis. They would be held to high standards and any under the table shinnanigans should be held criminal.

On the solution of foreign students leaving, simpler. They should be given an ultimatum prior to entry. They should be asked a deposit held in trust for 10 years after leaving college. The funds are returned incrementally with interest after a 10 year career, or allowed to be spent in funds equipment and purposes that cannot benefit or be transferred to another country, and if they still wish to leave they can. But if they leave prior they leave the money left behind which could also be used to serve the teaching institutions of the country.

Andy
 
scrapgirl81 said:
Many in this thread have asserted that everyone should be able to get health care. Let me throw this out there as food for thought.

How do you define “everyone”? What about all the people that live outside of the USA, many of whom do not even have adequate shelter, water and food?

What bothers me most about the debate in this country is that so many people who argue forcefully for government run healthcare use access for the poor as the argument when what really motivates them is their desire to reduce their personal outlays for their own healthcare. We already have the world’s most enviable system and access for the poor while not perfect is far better than most people think. Have we forgotten about public clinics? Or the willingness of MD’s & hospitals to offer free or reduced cost care?

Has anyone in this thread gone to their own doctor and told him/her you were having financial difficulty and been turned away untreated? Most MD’s would never do that.

What really has everyone’s ire up is not “the uninsured” but the rising costs of our own insurance and the decreasing benefits of same.

Problem is none of the presently debated proposals in DC does a damn thing about fixing that problem and many are likely to make it worse, while at the same time decreasing the quality of our system overall.

And to return to the original post theme - MD’s perspective- I am married to a doctor. So I know one really well and many others less so. Most of them are miserable and counting the days until they can retire. None of them when asked advise young people to go to med school. And there is nothing in the present legislation that will help this problem either.

My husband sums up the real problem with healthcare in America this way, “we have reached the point where we have the ability to do more for patients than we have the ability to pay for.” Why is Healthcare one sixth of our economy and growing? Because the number of tests, drugs and procedures grows and our appetite for these is insatiable. The only solution is rationing of care. One way or another difficult choices must be made. We can allow market forces to make them or hand over that control to our government, but the choices must be made.

And before anyone replies and calls me a monster I’ll return to my original thought with this one last question.

Do you really believe we have the capability to provide everything to everyone?
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You define what everything is and we will discuss it.
 
aspawloski4th said:
You do both because both can be done. A is only done because there is more profit in it.
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Do you go to work for free? Do you expect return on your retirement accounts?

Profit is not evil, greed is. They are not the same thing.
 
aspawloski4th said:
You do both because both can be done. A is only done because there is more profit in it.
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your argument makes no sense- youre saying we could just research the cures to all obscure diseases right now? We don’t have the man power. So we prioritize.
 
scrapgirl81 said:
Do you go to work for free? Do you expect return on your retirement accounts?

Profit is not evil, greed is. They are not the same thing.
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Ofcourse I work for money, but I remember in the gas station business we made very little profit on gas if any. The gas was used to attract customers to the profitable things like pop and candy. In convienience stores milk is sold cheap to attract customers to the other items that are more profitable. Yes business do things at cost sometimes You have to think about business in the dynamic sense rather than the static sense.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Ofcourse I work for money, but I remember in the gas station business we made very little profit on gas if any. The gas was used to attract customers to the profitable things like pop and candy. In convienience stores milk is sold cheap to attract customers to the other items that are more profitable. Yes business do things at cost sometimes You have to think about business in the dynamic sense rather than the static sense.
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Then I take it you agree with me about profit v. greed and are shifting your argument to now say that it is a poor business decision not to R&D treatments for extremely rare diseases?
 
aspawloski4th said:
Thts up to their own coountries.
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Fine, redefine Everyone = everyone in the USA

I still contend that we do not have the ability to provide everything to everyone and that the entire nonsense coming out of Washington is a bunch of pandering. They all know rationing is inevitable and they want to be the ones with the power to decide who gets what. Just think of how much more money they will be able to milk out of the drug and insurance companies, in the form of campaign contributions, when they call all the shots.

IMHO healthcare reform is a government power grab and that is the only thing they will succeed in doing. Every other stated goal of reform will fail.

So what we really should be debating is not if there are problems with our current quasi market based system, there are for sure. Some of the stories in this thread are heartbreaking. But even with reform there will still be heartbreaking stories. The real question is one of lesser evil. I for one do not trust the government at all because they are bought and paid for by special interest groups. Just look at what has happened to food prices since they mandated ethanol in gasoline – a practice that has shown to produce none of its touted benefits, and in spite of the havoc it has reaked by driving up the price of corn remains mandated. So our food bills go up while ADM makes huge profits and shares the bounty with Congress. Is this how you want your healthcare decisions made?
 
Pathia, while I certainly feel for you and your problems. I know that if the govt. takes control of our health care system it will go rapidly down hill to destruction of the best in the world. I am old and in my lifetime I have seen the govt. get involved in other things and in every case it lead to lower quality in whatever the product was to be. This power grab by the president and dem. controlled senate and house will destroy America as we know it, and you situation will remain the same. I have children with special problems that I do all I can to help. It is not the govt. job or responsibility to do anything for them, It is mine and my familys. We are not born with guarantes as to quanity or quality of life and beware of any human org. that tells you different. Socialism is a cancer on free people and always leads to the end of freedom.
I see you are lasped in your faith journey, and my advise for you is to get back to the sacrements and offer your pain as, St. Paul did, to the giver of real healing in reperation for your failings and for those of the whole world. There is a whole side of suffering that is glorius and great joy can be had through the joining of it to the suffering of our Lord. I personally have struggled with a disabling diesease for more than 50 years. The thorn in the flesh is and has been a blessing drawing me ever closer to the great healer, and when I stand in his presence it will be without pain or deformity. I am praying you get the help you need but it is in Gods hands, not the governments. Blessings. Garland
 
scrapgirl81 said:
IMHO healthcare reform is a government power grab and that is the only thing they will succeed in doing. Every other stated goal of reform will fail.
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To paraphrase Ron Paul, this isn’t about enacting real reform, it’s about control.
 
Must I point out the government IS in health care what do you critics call Medicare, Medicaid, the VA System and Indian Reservation Health Care a free market system?

May I ask the doctors here why you chose medicine and the path of a healer to make money or help those who are ill? If its the former your in the wrong profession IMHO. Is it right for any docotr to refuse to care for an ill person due to their ability to pay that is a violation of your duty under the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm.

Right now we have four systems of health care for workers we have a German model where employers cover the costs with the worker. For veterans and native americans its like England or Cuba, For retirees we mimic Canada. And for the working poor, homeless and unisured we are Rwanda, Rural India or any other third and forth world nation.

When any nation reaches a certain economic level like Mexico they go for a universal health care model of some sort. China dropped their system for a Pay for Service Out of Pocket Model and their poor are not getting even basic care.

What is odd is I traveled abroad when my father was in the army, docotrs in France complained about their pay but still loved working in France since they could provide care without layers of paperwork or an outsider challenging them. And their hospitals and practices use private companies and insurance plans so is not “socialist” or “socialized”. No more than Medicare is.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Thts up to their own coountries.
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how are countries in south east asia, africa, or south america to afford to pay for the health care of their citizens? Many can hardly feed their own populace. Why are only Americans desrving of help?
 
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