Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

[tjm190]

So, it’s OK for you to get Medicare but not someone else? Who gets to decide?

… He’s saying that taxpayer money is being used to fund medicare. That means his money is part of the money being used to fund medicare. So, since money is being taken from him to support medicare, he might as well accept the benefits.

However, he’d much rather just get to keep his money and take care of himself

 

[royal_archer]

So, it’s OK for you to get Medicare but not someone else? Who gets to decide?

I assume you are being sarcastic but in the off chance you are being serious here:
The problem does not come in recovering some of your money, the problem comes in taking other peoples money.

If I were a lazy bunch who leached off of society, it would not be OK for me to take medicare or anything else that I did not rightfully pay for or earn.

Who gets to decide?: Obviously God does. God gives all of us sufficient tallent to do his will. Some of us use our tallents to create things to make our earthly lives better. Through our labors we convert our talent into resources and have the earthly authority to do with those resources according to our will with God’s desire that we will align our will with his.

 

[royal_archer]

… He’s saying that taxpayer money is being used to fund medicare. That means his money is part of the money being used to fund medicare. So, since money is being taken from him to support medicare, he might as well accept the benefits.

However, he’d much rather just get to keep his money and take care of himself

Or put it into a medical plan where the participants are doing so of their own free will instead of under threat.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I assume you are being sarcastic but in the off chance you are being serious here:
The problem does not come in recovering some of your money, the problem comes in taking other peoples money.

If I were a lazy bunch who leached off of society, it would not be OK for me to take medicare or anything else that I did not rightfully pay for or earn.

Who gets to decide?: Obviously God does. God gives all of us sufficient tallent to do his will. Some of us use our tallents to create things to make our earthly lives better. Through our labors we convert our talent into resources and have the earthly authority to do with those resources according to our will with God’s desire that we will align our will with his.

I think most of us agree on that. Where we disagree is the tool or the " modus aparendai" to do that.

 

[pathia]

Actually I don’t think it is monstrous to say that we need to prioritize our resources. Fact is they are limited and so we always have to choose A or B. If A can save thousands of lives and B can only save one, then we must choose A. The fate of B is up to God, who has not endowed us with omnipotence, yet many in this thread talk as if we have it.

That’s a false premise, that is not how research works. There are billions upon billions going into research. The difference between funding one condition with 10billion versus 1billion is going to be nill. There is a point where money doesn’t matter, it requires luck and good science.

Some orphan drugs end up working on other, unrelated conditions too.

Do you really believe we have the capability to provide everything to everyone?

No, but I can’t even get in to get regular checkups or pay for tests to find out if my tumors are growing. I have to rely on the ER 100% of the time, which is not cheap. I file bankruptcy every single time I can. I’m not paying for it directly, I pay for it in ruined credit, ruined health and an early death. Society is already financing my health, in the least efficient and least effective ways possible

 

[royal_archer]

That’s a false premise, that is not how research works. There are billions upon billions going into research. The difference between funding one condition with 10billion versus 1billion is going to be nill. There is a point where money doesn’t matter, it requires luck and good science.

Some orphan drugs end up working on other, unrelated conditions too.

No, but I can’t even get in to get regular checkups or pay for tests to find out if my tumors are growing. I have to rely on the ER 100% of the time, which is not cheap. I file bankruptcy every single time I can. I’m not paying for it directly, I pay for it in ruined credit, ruined health and an early death. Society is already financing my health, in the least efficient and least effective ways possible

That is very similar to saying that since people are already stealing from Walmart, they would save money by getting rid of the cash register.

 

[pathia]

That is very similar to saying that since people are already stealing from Walmart, they would save money by getting rid of the cash register.

That doesn’t make sense to me on any level. What do you mean? You’re calling my inability to pay debts that amount to 25x my income ‘theft’? I’d have to live several hundred years to pay back the bills I owe. As it is, I won’t live out the decade.

 

[aspawloski4th]

That doesn’t make sense to me on any level. What do you mean? You’re calling my inability to pay debts that amount to 25x my income ‘theft’? I’d have to live several hundred years to pay back the bills I owe. As it is, I won’t live out the decade.

Eaarier last year in the news at a Walmart a diebetic employee suddenly had a drop in bloodsugar causing an accute hypoglycemic attack. That employee grabbed a candy bar and ate right away to save herself from passing out or even worse. She was fired for stealing from the company despite trying to pay for it when the epesode was over. Bet you anything RA sides with Walmart since money is all important to him,and health is just another luxery for money to pay for.

 

[royal_archer]

That doesn’t make sense to me on any level. What do you mean? You’re calling my inability to pay debts that amount to 25x my income ‘theft’? I’d have to live several hundred years to pay back the bills I owe. As it is, I won’t live out the decade.

I don’t know you or the details of your transactions but anyone who intentionaly takes goods or services with out intent to pay and with out consent of the owner is a thief.

 

[royal_archer]

Eaarier last year in the news at a Walmart a diebetic employee suddenly had a drop in bloodsugar causing an accute hypoglycemic attack. That employee grabbed a candy bar and ate right away to save herself from passing out or even worse. She was fired for stealing from the company despite trying to pay for it when the epesode was over. Bet you anything RA sides with Walmart since money is all important to him,and health is just another luxery for money to pay for.

Wrong, it would be assumed that the owner of the assett would be willing to loan it to a person in such a situation, since the person made an offer to pay for the assett at the first available opportunity, there is no criminal activity.

Have you considered that there was another reason the person was fired?

 

[pathia]

I don’t know you or the details of your transactions but anyone who intentionaly takes goods or services with out intent to pay and with out consent of the owner is a thief.

I was unconscious in the ICU in almost all of these instances. It’s hard to ‘take’ what you aren’t even aware of as occurring. In the cases I was capable of speaking, it wasn’t an issue. I was dying, they don’t ask questions when you are dying. The ER does not turn away people in need. You know this.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Wrong, it would be assumed that the owner of the assett would be willing to loan it to a person in such a situation, since the person made an offer to pay for the assett at the first available opportunity, there is no criminal activity.

Have you considered that there was another reason the person was fired?

Being that I got fired from Walmart under very shady circumstances I highly doubt it.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I don’t know you or the details of your transactions but anyone who intentionaly takes goods or services with out intent to pay and with out consent of the owner is a thief.

Thats an over simplification of her situation and you know it.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Eaarier last year in the news at a Walmart a diebetic employee suddenly had a drop in bloodsugar causing an accute hypoglycemic attack. That employee grabbed a candy bar and ate right away to save herself from passing out or even worse. She was fired for stealing from the company despite trying to pay for it when the epesode was over. Bet you anything RA sides with Walmart since money is all important to him,and health is just another luxery for money to pay for.

Would you cut out the continual ad hominem attacks?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Being that I got fired from Walmart under very shady circumstances I highly doubt it.

Many people I know, including many who fall on the Independent/Republican/Conservative/Moderate tag, go out of their way not to shop at Wal Mart.

Also, as they say, there are two sides to every story.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Would you cut out the continual ad hominem attacks?

His overzealousness twards the probusiness stance makes it impossible to make the point strong enough any other way. His business “can do no wrong” attitude drives me up a wall. Business especially big business does no less wrong than governement.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

His overzealousness twards the probusiness stance makes it impossible to make the point strong enough any other way. His business “can do no wrong” attitude drives me up a wall. Business especially big business does no less wrong than governement.

royal archer has not been overzealous, he has brought up several valid points.

 

[tjm190]

His overzealousness twards the probusiness stance makes it impossible to make the point strong enough any other way. His business “can do no wrong” attitude drives me up a wall. Business especially big business does no less wrong than governement.

When a business if failing, they restructure, let people go, or raise price.

Government programs are initially funded through taxes- but when these start to fail, what do they do? Certainly they can’t deny anybody access to that government program. And nobody likes raised taxes.

So they borrow money- and in some cases, boatloads of it. This does not address the root cause of the failure, and only piles disaster upon disaster.

This is the state we find Medicare, Medicaid, and social security- ALL of these are bound to collapse because they are funded almost exclusively from sources that will demand repayment.

I would rather not put out entire health care or insurance system into this process.

 

[royal_archer]

I was unconscious in the ICU in almost all of these instances. It’s hard to ‘take’ what you aren’t even aware of as occurring. In the cases I was capable of speaking, it wasn’t an issue. I was dying, they don’t ask questions when you are dying. The ER does not turn away people in need. You know this.

If you did not go to the ER voluntarily it would not be theft.

 

[royal_archer]

Being that I got fired from Walmart under very shady circumstances I highly doubt it.

I have been in several situations where I knew the boss and employee in such a situation such as at a restaurant we frequent. it is amazing how you see employees goofing off, not being responsible, etc. and they are totally oblivious to what they are doing. It is amazing hearing the stories when told from the manager’s and employee’s and other employees’ perspectives.