Healthy ,willing and able

[UbiCaritas]

Very good points.

My kids (especially the six-year-old at the time) were really crushed by my miscarriage, and I hadn’t even announced the pregnancy beforehand. Also, I had to spend a night in the hospital.

As UbiCaritas mentions, there was substantial medically-ordered abstinence afterward, just as there would be for having a live baby. There were also some unexpected complications (after I thought everything was normal, I suddenly got a two-week long episode of bleeding and went anemic–which I discovered early one morning when I collapsed on the way back from the bathroom–my husband said I was literally green from the blood loss). All in all, there were months of abstinence, with no live baby to show for it.

And that was as a relatively young 36-year-old. (I did manage to have a healthy baby the next year.)

Talk to your OB about this idea, ideally with your husband present, so he can hear everything you do.

That sounds really rough; I’m sorry.

The thing with the abstinence, for us at least, wasn’t so much just abstaining for a month or thereabouts; we’d done that before, and could do that again. fun though it wouldn’t have been. It was the combination of abstinence with the grief of losing a baby that made it so hard: just when we really wanted to comfort each other in the particular way that God designed marriage for, we couldn’t, and for quite a while there was no end date in sight. That was difficult for us, as I said, with it lasting only a month or so; to go through the grief-abstinence cycle over and over again probably wouldn’t be good for us long-term.

On the other hand, perhaps that might change as I get closer to menopause, but as I’m not 30 yet and NFP is, by its nature, more a monthly than a long-term decision, at least we don’t have to decide any of that now. It is an experience we’ll bear in mind once that gets closer, however.

 

[Xantippe]

The thing with the abstinence, for us at least, wasn’t so much just abstaining for a month or thereabouts; we’d done that before, and could do that again. fun though it wouldn’t have been. It was the combination of abstinence with the grief of losing a baby that made it so hard: just when we really wanted to comfort each other in the particular way that God designed marriage for, we couldn’t, and for quite a while there was no end date in sight. **That was difficult for us, as I said, with it lasting only a month or so; to go through the grief-abstinence cycle over and over again probably wouldn’t be good for us long-term. **

Exactly.

As I recall, the hormonal experience was also pretty nasty–not unlike what you get at the end of breastfeeding but (again) without a live baby to take the edge off. I was late enough along for my miscarriage (about 13 weeks) that my milk came in postpartum.

I can’t say that I recommend the experience.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Exactly.

As I recall, the hormonal experience was also pretty nasty–not unlike what you get at the end of breastfeeding but (again) without a live baby to take the edge off. I was late enough along for my miscarriage (about 13 weeks) that my milk came in postpartum.

I can’t say that I recommend the experience.

Ugh, I’d forgotten about the hormones. No milk here (surely having to deal with that is insult to injury?), but about a month or so of a somewhat milder version of the PPD I had with DD. Had you asked me then, we’d be waiting at least a few years before even trying for another baby, I wasn’t sure we would then, either, and by the way, I hated my life and was never going to be happier and I am TOO being PERFECTLY RATIONAL.

All very well-balanced, don’tchaknow , though I think that to my credit I refrained from taking it out on DH and DD for the most part. If I had to deal with feeling like that every couple of months for the better part of a decade, I really don’t think I’d be functioning optimally as a wife or mother.

As it happens, we were up for trying again in a couple of months, so here I am eating obscene quantities of ice cream while wondering why on earth it’s legal to be pregnant in sub-tropical Texas in late May, much less June*. If I knew there was a substantial chance of going through that again vs having a healthy pregnancy, though, I suspect we might have decided differently.

*Stock tip: invest in Sonic. Over the next few weeks, I expect their prices to rise astronomically.

 

[Greenfields]

I believe every baby is created and made in His image and has value beyond our comprehension at all stages of development, and we won’t know until we get to heaven whose lives they have
changed for the greater good and how .All human life is a wonderful gift and mystery !
I’d much rather be answerable to God than people ,and if my husband and I are given the gift of a new life and soul to care for I know now that there will less support than I anticipated and it truly is between my husband, God and myself.

       Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut and prayers,
            God bless from Greenfields.

 

[jmjZelie]

I believe every baby is created and made in His image and has value beyond our comprehension at all stages of development, and we won’t know until we get to heaven whose lives they have
changed for the greater good and how .All human life is a wonderful gift and mystery !
I’d much rather be answerable to God than people ,and if my husband and I are given the gift of a new life and soul to care for I know now that there will less support than I anticipated and it truly is between my husband, God and myself.

       Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut and prayers,
            God bless from Greenfields.

Green fields,

I am still a bit younger than you so I cannot speak from experience, but I would like to share with you that I have several friends from when I lived across the country who remained totally open to conception and scored with their husbands not to use NFP as they went through their 40s. They both conceived and bore a child at least once more in their 40s, but also had a few miscarriages. One of the women is now in her 50s and is a unique combination of wise and youthful. She is raising some children who are the same age as my oldest children, and some are already grown. Another women is a bit closer to my age, and she ended up only having 6 kids (same size as my family will be later this year), and she stopped conceiving earlier than the other friend, but still had one in her 40s.

Both women were very encouraging to me as a new convert to see the joy that comes out of being totally open to however many children God sends them, and they both were very open about why they made that choice. Neither one regretted it, even though it came with its own type of suffering. They grieved the babies they lost due to miscarriage, even as they trusted that God has a plan even for the souls of those babies.

Since I met them soon after suffering my first miscarriage, I cannot tell you just how comforting and encouraging they were to me to help me navigate the grief in a truly Catholic way (because I certainly wasn’t getting honest and open support anywhere else). But I wanted to let you know that women like them do exist. I don’t know if you have connected with anyone like that here at CAF yet, but I know that there are some ladies here, who also continued having babies (or at least not using NFP) through their 40s. It is true that mothers have a higher risk of miscarriage, or other complications, and they also have a higher risk of having babies who have special needs. But even so, the decision about what risk is acceptable and manageable is between you and your husband and God.

Your posts about God’s plan and the incomparable value of human souls and the joy of being open to conception are all very beautiful and inspiring and they hint to me that you are demonstrating some of that same grace that my friends showed with their lives who made the choice you are currently contemplating. So I hope you will be encouraged. This world will not give you the encouragement or support for your decisions that our Faith provides. We may not have peers surrounding us in what St. Pope JPII calls the Culture of Death, but we have the lives of the saints to provide us with examples of people who had aspects of our lives and they became holy through what God was asking of them. If you can find a group, or even one friend, who is an older mom still having babies, that is awesome. But if not, just know that you are not alone. (Btw, I will be 38 before this baby is born, so while I am not yet 40, I am close enough to understand the pressure and the challenges of "elderly pregnancy, as they call it.)

God bless!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Say if I was a healthy mom,already had children, was in my late 40’s and husband and I very happy to have a try for a new baby (all systems go) Why would there be opposition from other Catholics for us prepared to accept and love the child God gives to us as a gift
if that baby is exactly as God intended,perfect in His eyes but perhaps “imperfect” in others?Who am I to say to God,yes I’ll accept the one that every one thinks is “normal”
but no, I wont accept the one that everyone else thinks is not.
Why are my husband and I not allowed to be brave even in the eyes of some Catholics when the world needs say children with Down’s Syndrome -some of the most beautiful souls I have met in this upside down world?
I just don’t get it that I’ve been told perhaps we shouldn’t try because of the risk.
I believe that’s between me, my husband and God,
Thoughts please
* I request that this isn’t turned into a for and against NFP
thread. *

Why don’t you just have your baby and not worry about what people who cannot dicern for you think. There are even people on this forum who think what you would do would be irresponsible there are others who would encourage you but the vast majority of good people should just wish you well and trust you have dicerned this with God.

There are things even in my own life right now I hesitate to post. Your decision to co create life with God should not be internet fodder.

 

[Xantippe]

Why don’t you just have your baby and not worry about what people who cannot dicern for you think. There are even people on this forum who think what you would do would be irresponsible there are others who would encourage you but the vast majority of good people should just wish you well and trust you have dicerned this with God.

There are things even in my own life right now I hesitate to post. Your decision to co create life with God should not be internet fodder.

A late 40-something lady that manages to have a baby (or even get pregnant) ought to buy a pack of lottery tickets the same day–at that point, being able to get pregnant is not really something to take for granted. Sure, it can be done–but not by everybody.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

A late 40-something lady that manages to have a baby (or even get pregnant) ought to buy a pack of lottery tickets the same day–at that point, being able to get pregnant is not really something to take for granted. Sure, it can be done–but not by everybody.

It is not our place.

 

[Xantippe]

It is not our place.

You just told her, “Why don’t you just have your baby and not worry about what people who cannot dicern for you think.”

If the OP is in her late 40s, it’s just not very likely. Possible, but not likely.

 

[bitterhope]

You just told her, “Why don’t you just have your baby and not worry about what people who cannot dicern for you think.”

If the OP is in her late 40s, it’s just not very likely. Possible, but not likely.

It happens much more than many care to think about. It’s not up to you or anyone else to feed her the horror stories or anything like that. She will get the FACTS as they pertain TO HER from her dr. Every woman is different and statistics don’t show the whole picture, nor do they account for individuals and their unique circumstances. Having a baby is never wrong and each child should be rejoiced. If she and her husband are BLESSED by God with a new life, that is fantastic. If it doesn’t happen, that is God’s Will for them. Whichever happens they deserve the support and care of others and not have others make things harder or try to scare them or turn their backs on them or question their sanity or anything of the sort.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I feel God gave us an “old age” limit, menopause

 

[Anglewannabe]

Why are my husband and I not allowed to be brave

um… just curious but who too your permission to be brave away? Honestly, I don’t see this as a ‘who can have children thread’, I see it more as a ‘You need not to worry about what others think thread’

 

[oldgraymare2]

It happens much more than many care to think about. It’s not up to you or anyone else to feed her the horror stories or anything like that. She will get the FACTS as they pertain TO HER from her dr. Every woman is different and statistics don’t show the whole picture, nor do they account for individuals and their unique circumstances. Having a baby is never wrong and each child should be rejoiced. If she and her husband are BLESSED by God with a new life, that is fantastic. If it doesn’t happen, that is God’s Will for them. Whichever happens they deserve the support and care of others and not have others make things harder or try to scare them or turn their backs on them or question their sanity or anything of the sort.

Yes, it can still happen for women who are in their late 40’s.

When I was younger, I was going out with someone whose Mother was a much older Mom. She was in her late 40’s when he was born. When I was going out with him, he was in his 20’s, and she was in her 60’s.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

um… just curious but who too your permission to be brave away? Honestly, I don’t see this as a ‘who can have children thread’, I see it more as a ‘You need not to worry about what others think thread’

I agree. Especially with the “be brave” part. If one was “brave” one would not need to seek the permission of society.
I think the op is probably encountering some unwelcome comments or attitudes and that can be frustrating. I used to be hypersensitive to any comment from the checker at the store to my mother. Honestly I am shocked at the level of sharing that is considered public conversation these days. When I was younger I used to say things for shock value. Now, it’s just common conversation to speak of bedroom habits and activities. We had a family gathering on Mother’s Day and my cousins wife was bragging about how my cousin was getting a vasectomy to anyone who would listen.

As we grew as a family I am not as bothered not do I seek approval for our decisions or our family. From stay at home dad, to homeschool to having another baby. I just am Caring less and less what others think.

It would be nice though, and this might be what the op was getting at if there were more smiles and words of encouragement, especially from fellow Catholics. And though my position is that now I take the high road, and I don’t get worked up about those things, that is all just a general statement, there are still days or even people that know exactly how to push my buttons (generally family)

 

[ThePCWife]

It’s still exceptionally rare for women who aren’t using artificial technology or surrogacy, which is very likely not the OP or anyone posting in this thread. It’s more likely if you’ve been pregnant frequently, for what should be obvious reasons, but it’s still rare.

I find it weird to act like once you’ve decided you’ll try for another after age 45 that you should then assume the sale and expect another baby 9 months later. That’s…improbable.

Something like 600 women a year have a baby at that age, and the government can’t weed out the IVF/surrogacy from that number. There’s about 4 million births a year. It’s one thing to be willing to try, it’s another to assume you’ll be guaranteed to be in that small group just because you really want it. It’s ok to encourage a woman to take the risk, to me, but not great to lead her to believe she is definitely going to have another term pregnancy and successful delivery of a live infant. Statistics are experiences and lives added up, after all.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It’s still exceptionally rare for women who aren’t using artificial technology or surrogacy, which is very likely not the OP or anyone posting in this thread. It’s more likely if you’ve been pregnant frequently, for what should be obvious reasons, but it’s still rare.

I find it weird to act like once you’ve decided you’ll try for another after age 45 that you should then assume the sale and expect another baby 9 months later. That’s…improbable.

Something like 600 women a year have a baby at that age, and the government can’t weed out the IVF/surrogacy from that number. There’s about 4 million births a year. It’s one thing to be willing to try, it’s another to assume you’ll be guaranteed to be in that small group just because you really want it. It’s ok to encourage a woman to take the risk, to me, but not great to lead her to believe she is definitely going to have another term pregnancy and successful delivery of a live infant. Statistics are experiences and lives added up, after all.

Check your stats.
pregnancyandbaby.com/pregnancy/articles/945799/5-tips-for-women-considering-pregnancy-after-age-40
This article shows that yes, for the majority of women it is hard . But it is still more common than you are saying at 600 a year.
This is a daily mail article
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092971/Number-babies-born-women-45-trebles-just-years.html

It’s stats are in the thousands and only covers the uk. Worldwide or even just US the numbers would be much much higher.

 

[bitterhope]

I wonder why so many women practice NFP stricter or switch to ABC if it’s to truly be believed to be so rare that it’s nearly unheard of for older women to conceive and carry babies.

 

[ThePCWife]

Check your stats.
pregnancyandbaby.com/pregnancy/articles/945799/5-tips-for-women-considering-pregnancy-after-age-40
This article shows that yes, for the majority of women it is hard . But it is still more common than you are saying at 600 a year.
This is a daily mail article
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092971/Number-babies-born-women-45-trebles-just-years.html

It’s stats are in the thousands and only covers the uk. Worldwide or even just US the numbers would be much much higher.

I’m sorry, I was using births for women over 50, in some datasets they combine some of those older ages. That was my bad. But for women 45-49, the numbers are in that range if you’re not talking the first, second or third child, and the OP is not childless.

cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_12.pdf

There’s the American birth data for 2014. It’s 7700 births, mostly first, second or third child, for women aged 45-49.

3000 or so for fourth or greater birth is more than 600, but it’s still unlikely against 4 million births overall.

That’s the thing, an order of magnitude doesn’t change the basic rarity. Most women don’t have babies that late, even women who have had 10 or 12. It’s just how God made the female body. The exception isn’t the rule.

 

[ThePCWife]

I wonder why so many women practice NFP stricter or switch to ABC if it’s to truly be believed to be so rare that it’s nearly unheard of for older women to conceive and carry babies.

Probably because a woman who’s been pregnant 6-12 times (not at all atypical for the tiny group of women who practice NFP) has a body used to getting pregnant, so her likelihood of simply getting pregnant is higher, but so is her risk of the miscarriages that tend to occur with advancing maternal age. Many women don’t talk to anyone but their doctors about those miscarriages for fear of being labelled “horror story promoters who are against being open to life”. But a higher likelihood of getting pregnant is still not very high at those ages. At that age it’s all anecdotes precisely because there are so few instances everyone in that social circle will talk about them.

A few hundred or few thousand out of millions is the very definition of rare.

You can also look up the Hutterite data from the 1950s if you want some idea of the frequency among women who just took each pregnancy as it came with neither birth control methods or NFP. Hint: it’s not much different than the pdf I already linked.

 

[Rau]

…A few hundred or few thousand out of millions is the very definition of rare.

One wonders what is really being debated now.

You can’t attribute the number born entirely to the capacity of older parents to conceive.

The reduced capacity of the “average” couple of more advanced age, eg. 45+, to conceive and to carry a child to term is not doubted by anyone. And that the size of the cohort of couples seeking to conceive at 45+ years is much smaller than the cohort at less than 45 years, is also clear. And perhaps the frequency of sexual relations is also less in the over 45s.

So there are a number of factors influencing actual birth rates prior to menopause.