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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Well when in the rest of the world one may kneel. When the U.S. or Canada one is expected to stand.
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IrishAm
Guest
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ClaireS
Guest
Your feelings are perfectly understandable to me. Perhaps Father was taken by surprise too and may regret how he handled the situation. Your response to him I think must have been pleasing to Jesus, especially considering the turmoil you were feeling at the time. In our diocese, the bishop has asked that we stand to receive communion and show reverence by a bow. Just as well in my case since the sight of me trying to get off the floor after kneeling would not be a pleasant one.
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Extraordinary
Guest
Your priest did the right thing, but he should have been far more tactful. In his defense however, he has likely received abuse in the past when he corrected others.
The actual Church documentation on this matter that I am aware of is:
*GIRM 160. The priest then takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.
The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.*
*
RS 90. "The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined", with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.*
What confuses me is that if they have received competent catechesis, Catholics should know that the normative posture for receiving Holy Communion in the USA is standing – and they should follow the Church and not their egos.
If they insist on kneeling, they are not to be denied communion – they are to receive catechesis outside of Mass on the reasons for this norm. OK, but sadly, some seem to ignore/reject the on-going catechesis for their egos and that is terribly wrong.
Still, your pastor should have been more tactful.
The actual Church documentation on this matter that I am aware of is:
*GIRM 160. The priest then takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.
The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.*
*
RS 90. "The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined", with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.*
What confuses me is that if they have received competent catechesis, Catholics should know that the normative posture for receiving Holy Communion in the USA is standing – and they should follow the Church and not their egos.
If they insist on kneeling, they are not to be denied communion – they are to receive catechesis outside of Mass on the reasons for this norm. OK, but sadly, some seem to ignore/reject the on-going catechesis for their egos and that is terribly wrong.
Still, your pastor should have been more tactful.
From what’s been given, Father’s response was actually the correct one. He did not deny Communion, and yet informed the communicant of the norm and invited her to talk about it after Mass. Looks like everything was in accordance with the GIRM. I can’t speak for Father’s tactfulness, since we do not know his tone. But his actions themselves were completely in order.
The U.S. norm is clearly standing, and while some people do prefer to kneel (such as myself), we should recognize that the parish priest is also Pope of his parish, and whenever he rules legitimately on matters of norms such as this one, he is completely within his rights and our best response is to obey. Some other priests do not mind kneeling for Communion.
The U.S. norm is clearly standing, and while some people do prefer to kneel (such as myself), we should recognize that the parish priest is also Pope of his parish, and whenever he rules legitimately on matters of norms such as this one, he is completely within his rights and our best response is to obey. Some other priests do not mind kneeling for Communion.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Hi Marie,Hi. I’m new to this site. This is my first post. Today, we celebrated the feast of the Immaculate Conception. I attended Mass, with a heart full of joy and love for our Immaculate Mother and gratitude to Our Lord, for sharing her with us. My feeling changed to sorrow, however… when it came time for Holy Communion.
I’m still fairly new to the parish I’m now attending. As I approached Father, and my turn came to receive Our dear Lord… I went down on both knees. At that point… Father bent over me… and said in a fairly audible tone… “We stand upright for communion at this parish”. He gave me the host… and then he said… “We’ll talk about it, outside”.
I walked away from Holy Communion, feeling like a child who had just been reprimanded for misbehaving; By the time I returned to my pew, I was nearly in tears. I was confused. Had I just been corrected for humbling myself before my Creator? I didn’t know what had happened.
As I sat there… and Mass was coming to an end… I decided, that it would probably be most pleasing to Our Lord, for me to be obedient to Father… (who happens to also be the Pastor of this parish) and not object to his correction. When I passed him… I smiled as sweetly as I could, and said… “I’ll remember, Father”. He muttered something about the “customs of the parish”. And I went on my way.
In retrospect… however, I am feeling extremely sad. How can parish “customs” override the individual souls response to being in the presence of Jesus Christ? To receiving Him? I don’t understand what happened today… any responses would be appreciated. Thank you and God bless.
I am at a partial loss to explain the priest’s behavior. I have never seen communion denied to a person for kneeling. But frankly I have rarely seen anyone do this anymore either - that is the sadder thing to me. But the priest may also have other issues he is concerned with. One might be little more than pragmatic concerns about safety and the timely progression of a large congregation through communion knowing there is another mass coming up in a short time and the parking lot is congested. Since it takes a lot longer to stop and bend down to serve communion for each person. Another concern may be that the priest is facing some overly-fundamentalist kinds of schisms trying to take hold in his Church. I’ll elaborate on this in the next paragraph. Frankly, I admire you for doing it and if I was a priest I would be heart warmed at the reverence displayed and would hope that it would instill a greater since of awe and rightful respect for Jesus present in the Eucharist among the others. I have thought to do it myself in fact (kneel to receive) but in person I am fairly reserved and shy and do not want to draw that kind of attention to myself by going against the prevailing local custom. So I admire your courage. And this is probably more to the point of the priest’s concern - that it will make other parishioners self conscience through contrast that they appear “less devout” (which is not true) and cause discomfort to others who perhaps can not kneel (e.g. many elderly or physically restricted or overweight persons). That would tend to alienate some others in an unfortunate but unintended way. So I see the priest as being preemptive to that possibility.
That said, I have seen some ultra-conservative Catholic web sites who are 100% condemning the Vatican II changes and insist on receiving the host on the tongue while kneeling. I don’t think the level of scorn that these people have for the changes is warranted - but at the same time I greatly admire their desire to express piety, holiness and reverence. There is a fine line here though about outward signs that emulate the behaviour of the Pharisees and Sadducees (e.g. seeking to appear holy in men’s eyes). I am sure this is NOT your case though. But the priest may have a local group in his congregation who are trying to foster a division by insisting on the pre-Vatican II practices. In that sense he may be trying to discourage a schism within his own parish that would only end up hurting the Church for the apparent minor benefit of a few.
Just thoughts,
James
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MarieVeronica
Guest
Wow, I can’t believe that this is still on the first page. I thought it would have gone to page 2 by now. I hope it will sink, after this.
Thanks again, to anyone who took the time to respond. I just wanted to say to IrishAm… thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. In regards to your comment about something else going on… At the time I wrote the original post, I was truly heartbroken. For a number of reasons.
I didn’t understand why my priest would tell me that I could not receive Our Lord, on my knees. This had been a frequent (though usually impulsive) posture, in the other parishes I have belonged to (which are now out of state, or I’d go back)… and was never questioned. So, Father’s “order” (for lack of a better phrase) to stand upright… was new, and surprising to me. It was also mixed with a fair amount of embarrassment. I admit that.
Some of you brought up many good points, which simply had not occurred to me. Such as… he might have been concerned that I would appear over zealous, and make others feel less devoted? I’m not sure… but it seems that some might be feeling I was trying to draw attention to myself? But I wasn’t. Or, the people in back of me… might trip on my feet. That certainly in no way… entered my mind. I admitted in my last post, that I hadn’t thought of possible consequences that my priest might have foreseen.
Last, but certainly not least… I was hurt for Jesus sake. That His own priest would order a soul devoted to Him in the Blessed Sacrament… off her knees. But it then occurred to me… that perhaps, Our Lord Himself was testing my obedience… and after that, I began to regain my peace; Feeling that I had done what was most pleasing to Our dear Lord.
But at the time I wrote the post, I was hurting and confused. And so, despite how this post may have sounded to anyone… it was sincere. And I gratefully thank all of you for your assistance in helping me to sort out what was to me… a very painful incident. God bless.
Thanks again, to anyone who took the time to respond. I just wanted to say to IrishAm… thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. In regards to your comment about something else going on… At the time I wrote the original post, I was truly heartbroken. For a number of reasons.
I didn’t understand why my priest would tell me that I could not receive Our Lord, on my knees. This had been a frequent (though usually impulsive) posture, in the other parishes I have belonged to (which are now out of state, or I’d go back)… and was never questioned. So, Father’s “order” (for lack of a better phrase) to stand upright… was new, and surprising to me. It was also mixed with a fair amount of embarrassment. I admit that.
Some of you brought up many good points, which simply had not occurred to me. Such as… he might have been concerned that I would appear over zealous, and make others feel less devoted? I’m not sure… but it seems that some might be feeling I was trying to draw attention to myself? But I wasn’t. Or, the people in back of me… might trip on my feet. That certainly in no way… entered my mind. I admitted in my last post, that I hadn’t thought of possible consequences that my priest might have foreseen.
Last, but certainly not least… I was hurt for Jesus sake. That His own priest would order a soul devoted to Him in the Blessed Sacrament… off her knees. But it then occurred to me… that perhaps, Our Lord Himself was testing my obedience… and after that, I began to regain my peace; Feeling that I had done what was most pleasing to Our dear Lord.
But at the time I wrote the post, I was hurting and confused. And so, despite how this post may have sounded to anyone… it was sincere. And I gratefully thank all of you for your assistance in helping me to sort out what was to me… a very painful incident. God bless.
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Extraordinary
Guest
Didn’t your pastor provide catechesis outside of the Mass for the reasons to receive in the normative fashion? If not, maybe you could approach him outside of Mass?
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
I feel for you. I think you did the best thing you could have done. Thank the Lord that he gave you the gift of humility. It’s sad that he acted like this. Once I heard about a priest that burst into tears when one of his parishes keeled to receive the Eucharist.
I would cry with joy if I would see these days return once again…
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I would cry with joy if I would see these days return once again…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
po18guy
Well-known member
I tend to go with Pong on this. We do not want someone to break out in tongues during mass, or to dance, or to prostrate themselves. I am guessing that your parish genuflects before reception. We need unity during mass, which requires that we deny ourselves for the greater good of Christ’s Church. Make a point to speak with the priest. He is there, after all to teach. If you dwell on this occurrence, it will lead only to bad feelings, which weaken you before the evil one.
May I suggest that you go to adoration? There, you may spend the hour sitting, on your knees, or prostrate if you will. At mass, I encourage you to obey the norms of the parish.
Christ’s peace.
C
cgirl4ever
Guest
I think it is more proper not to kneel. iknow that the church teaches that it is the body and blood of Jesus but at the same time you may not get into the mass and bow down to just the wafer as just a motion you are used to doing. You know what I mean.
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
No, I don’t know what you mean.
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benedictgal
Guest
Please do not refer to it as a wafer because, from the moment of Consecration, the Host is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. In other words, when you bow, you are bowing down to the Lord, Himself. Ditto for when you are kneeling.
po18guy
Well-known member
Amen!
CgirlI4ever, if you have seen, or have a copy of The Passion of the Christ, recall the scene in which the fresh bread is brought to Christ and He initiates the Eucharist. It looked like bread, but was spiritual food welling up to eternal life. What we consume is the same though all ages. Amen, Alleluia!
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Sheeniac
Guest
I’ve been to masses (daily) in NYC where there were people kneeling to receive. I thought it was wonderful.
At my parish, we get a handful of people who genuflect on occasion. Very few though. I’ve been wanting to do that… So this week, I told my BF who lets me go before him, to be aware because I was going to do it.
I’ve been behind people who have genuflected, and since I pay attention while getting ready to receive Communion, I haven’t walked on them. That said, I think that people should be more charitable to people who prefer to kneel.
Oh, and I’m an EHMC as well, and I receive in my hand from Father when I am assisting because everyone else does. When I am in line, I receive on the tongue.
At my parish, we get a handful of people who genuflect on occasion. Very few though. I’ve been wanting to do that… So this week, I told my BF who lets me go before him, to be aware because I was going to do it.
I’ve been behind people who have genuflected, and since I pay attention while getting ready to receive Communion, I haven’t walked on them. That said, I think that people should be more charitable to people who prefer to kneel.
Oh, and I’m an EHMC as well, and I receive in my hand from Father when I am assisting because everyone else does. When I am in line, I receive on the tongue.
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
My only problem with kneeling comes from what others have mentioned: I have been in a situation where the person ahead of me in the Communion line decided to kneel without so much as a signal, and I almost knocked over Father and the ciborium containing the Blessed Sacrament in the process. I stopped short.
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dandn5000
Guest
I think this may be the main reason why its generally accepted in most parishes in the US why we don’t kneel when we receive - accidents such as this may occur because most parishioners aren’t used to having people kneeling in line.
Whether or not its a bad thing it came to this point is a debate I’d rather not get into at the moment, but you get my point.
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Seatuck
Guest
God Bless You . Very mature.
This of course doesn’t mean you can’t kneel at a Mass where it seems to be allowed or that you can’t pray for the day when we all kneel if that is what is in your heart.
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japhy
Guest
Part of the cause, though, is the approach now. Communion at a railing doesn’t have this problem, because everyone lines up sideways and kneels. Communion in a single file requires person B to wait for person A to receive and move out of the way. The Communion rail might seem more like an assembly-line setup, but it has far fewer problems.
Perhaps if people weren’t rushing to get Communion and get back to their pew (not that you are, dandn), they would give the person ahead of them plenty of room, and approach the Blessed Sacrament at a reverent pace (not too fast, but not lazily slow).
Another nice thing about Communion rails (at least, this is how it was at Mater Ecclesiae in Berlin, NJ) is that you are there, kneeling at the railing, for, say, 30 seconds before you receive. There, kneeling at the the entrance to the Sanctuary, near the foot of the Altar. You’re there, kneeling, waiting for your Lord. And you can stay there, kneeling, for a few seconds after you have received, to say a quick prayer of thanksgiving before you walk back to your pew. Because no one is in a rush.
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THurifer2
Guest
I believe it was pastorally poor for the preist to do that. He should have given you communion without incident and then sought you out after Mass. We are witnessing an increasing hatred towards traditionalism in the Catholic church…in some areas.Hi. I’m new to this site. This is my first post. Today, we celebrated the feast of the Immaculate Conception. I attended Mass, with a heart full of joy and love for our Immaculate Mother and gratitude to Our Lord, for sharing her with us. My feeling changed to sorrow, however… when it came time for Holy Communion.
I’m still fairly new to the parish I’m now attending. As I approached Father, and my turn came to receive Our dear Lord… I went down on both knees. At that point… Father bent over me… and said in a fairly audible tone… “We stand upright for communion at this parish”. He gave me the host… and then he said… “We’ll talk about it, outside”.
I walked away from Holy Communion, feeling like a child who had just been reprimanded for misbehaving; By the time I returned to my pew, I was nearly in tears. I was confused. Had I just been corrected for humbling myself before my Creator? I didn’t know what had happened.
As I sat there… and Mass was coming to an end… I decided, that it would probably be most pleasing to Our Lord, for me to be obedient to Father… (who happens to also be the Pastor of this parish) and not object to his correction. When I passed him… I smiled as sweetly as I could, and said… “I’ll remember, Father”. He muttered something about the “customs of the parish”. And I went on my way.
In retrospect… however, I am feeling extremely sad. How can parish “customs” override the individual souls response to being in the presence of Jesus Christ? To receiving Him? I don’t understand what happened today… any responses would be appreciated. Thank you and God bless.
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