Heaven for the non-Catholic

[Brian777]

Why does it only count if one is a member of the Catholic church? If ‘church’ is symbolic of unity with Christ why doesn’t every church qualify for sanctuary or salvation?

Because The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is just that…ONE. The only Church on earth in our day and age with any real semblence of ONENESS is the Holy Catholic Church. But more important is the fact that the other Christian communities are in heresy, and are not part of the One True Church. The Catholic Church (Roman and Eastern) is the only Church of Christ.

Why not try getting your wife to convert into an Eastern rite? that way she will be surrounded by her own traditions and the true faith all at the same time. Also, Eastern orthodox are not damned as easily because it is the same faith, only no pope(yes i know there are other differences, but those are being worked out even as we speak in some places. Hopefully in our lifetimes we will see East and West in FULL Communion once again.

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
I think like this : the most major
sin is take deity besides God Almighty . We must not worship any creation of God .

Sorry but it really doesn’t matter what we think, what matters is how God thinks(though He would have nothing against the exact statement I quoted from you… that is completely correct) and only God can tell us how his mind works. He has chosen to do this, occasionally, through his Holy Church. That is why nothing I have posted is my own opinion, only quotes or paraphrases directly from Church documents, aka the inspired teaching of God Almighty. Thats all the OP really needed was a simple quote form the Catechism or a Council, and of course, Scripture. Oh which reminds me!..
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in Him (St. John: 6: 57).”
“If any one who abideth not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they (the Angels) shall gather him up and cast him into the fire: and he burneth (St. John 15:6).”

Words of Christ, not Brian.

 

[Madolaina]

Because The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is just that…ONE. The only Church on earth in our day and age with any real semblence of ONENESS is the Holy Catholic Church. But more important is the fact that the other Christian communities are in heresy, and are not part of the One True Church. The Catholic Church (Roman and Eastern) is the only Church of Christ.

Words of Christ, not Brian.

Alright Brian777… give it to me straight. Although I am a believer in the crusifixtion and resurrection of Christ and am convinced that the ascension of Christ was to go prepare heaven for the believers, I will not be allowed to praise and worship at the foot of the thrown because I have not ‘joined’ the Catholic church?

 

[ralphinal]

Alright Brian777… give it to me straight. Although I am a believer in the crusifixtion and resurrection of Christ and am convinced that the ascension of Christ was to go prepare heaven for the believers, I will not be allowed to praise and worship at the foot of the thrown because I have not ‘joined’ the Catholic church?

Alright. Everyone gather around one more time while Daddy Ralph sets you all straight on the correct understanding of it all.

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Simple, right? Not exactly.

First, what does it mean to be outside of the Catholic Church? Well, it means that you choose not to be a member of the Church that Jesus founded. If you do not accept Jesus, or you do not accept the Church’s claims, then you have a lower culpability. If you are not a member of the Church because you do not know Jesus, then you are judged accordingly. If you do not accept the Church’c teachings, same thing. IF you do not accept either one through no fault of your own, again, that lowers culpability.

Now, what does it mean to be in the Church? FIrst, you must be baptised. Any Christian, baptised in the Trinitarian formula with water adn the correct intention, is part of the Church. So, most Christians are Catholic by baptism, as we understand when Paul says that there is ONE baptism.

THose who are outside of the Church or even Christianity may be saved by the Grace of Jesus and Mercy of God. If they are, we must also understand that the intercession of the Church on their part was important. We must also see that GOd has chosen to distribute grace through His Church on earth. Again, salvation is through the Church.

AS far as levels of heaven and hell, many beleive it, but to my knowledge it is not official dogma.

 

[Madolaina]

Because The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is just that…ONE. The only Church on earth in our day and age with any real semblence of ONENESS is the Holy Catholic Church. But more important is the fact that the other Christian communities are in heresy, and are not part of the One True Church. The Catholic Church (Roman and Eastern) is the only Church of Christ.

Why not try getting your wife to convert into an Eastern rite? that way she will be surrounded by her own traditions and the true faith all at the same time. Also, Eastern orthodox are not damned as easily because it is the same faith, only no pope(yes i know there are other differences, but those are being worked out even as we speak in some places. Hopefully in our lifetimes we will see East and West in FULL Communion once again.

Sorry but it really doesn’t matter what we think, what matters is how God thinks(though He would have nothing against the exact statement I quoted from you… that is completely correct) and only God can tell us how his mind works. He has chosen to do this, occasionally, through his Holy Church. That is why nothing I have posted is my own opinion, only quotes or paraphrases directly from Church documents, aka the inspired teaching of God Almighty. Thats all the OP really needed was a simple quote form the Catechism or a Council, and of course, Scripture. Oh which reminds me!..
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in Him (St. John: 6: 57).”
“If any one who abideth not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they (the Angels) shall gather him up and cast him into the fire: and he burneth (St. John 15:6).”

Words of Christ, not Brian.

Alright. Everyone gather around one more time while Daddy Ralph sets you all straight on the correct understanding of it all.

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Simple, right? Not exactly.

First, what does it mean to be outside of the Catholic Church? Well, it means that you choose not to be a member of the Church that Jesus founded. If you do not accept Jesus, or you do not accept the Church’s claims, then you have a lower culpability. If you are not a member of the Church because you do not know Jesus, then you are judged accordingly. If you do not accept the Church’c teachings, same thing. IF you do not accept either one through no fault of your own, again, that lowers culpability.

Now, what does it mean to be in the Church? FIrst, you must be baptised. Any Christian, baptised in the Trinitarian formula with water adn the correct intention, is part of the Church. So, most Christians are Catholic by baptism, as we understand when Paul says that there is ONE baptism.

THose who are outside of the Church or even Christianity may be saved by the Grace of Jesus and Mercy of God. If they are, we must also understand that the intercession of the Church on their part was important. We must also see that GOd has chosen to distribute grace through His Church on earth. Again, salvation is through the Church.

AS far as levels of heaven and hell, many beleive it, but to my knowledge it is not official dogma.

thank you Ralph. You make sense. and , I might add, you apear to be able to do that without judgement and condisention. I ask you now about those mortal sins that separate us from God and eternal salvation. Is ignoance one of those sins? If one does not know the rules , regulations, procedures of religeous observances is one ‘separate’? What are the mortal sins we must ‘confess’ and which must be atoned?
I thank you in advance for helping me understand? It is important to me.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Heaven, Purgatory, Hell. Most people go to Purgatory first. Saints go directly to Heaven.

That sounds like a game of Monopoly ​

• “Go straight to Hell, do not pass GO, do not collect £200”

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

… it really doesn’t matter what we think, what matters is how God thinks(though He would have nothing against the exact statement I quoted from you… that is completely correct)…

yes ; God warned us in all major holy books that don’t take other deity , don’t make statue , don’t bow down in front of idols etc. So , those non-Catholics who worship one God must not be burned in fire

 

[cthulhubryan]

Most religions believe in some sort of afterlife. Do catholics believe in levels or degrees of Heaven and Hell? and are there different heavens for different religions?

That would be the Mormons with the 3 levels of heaven: Terrestrial, Telestial and Celestial.

 

[ralphinal]

thank you Ralph. You make sense. and , I might add, you apear to be able to do that without judgement and condisention. I ask you now about those mortal sins that separate us from God and eternal salvation. Is ignoance one of those sins? If one does not know the rules , regulations, procedures of religeous observances is one ‘separate’? What are the mortal sins we must ‘confess’ and which must be atoned?
I thank you in advance for helping me understand? It is important to me.

A mortal sin is one that has three parts. First, it must be a serious issue. Second, we must know fully that it is a serious issue. Thrid, we must freely choose the action knowing that it is a serious issue. FOr example, killing another human is a serious issue. However, we can see the difference between a policeman shooting someone to stop a crime and a killer shooting someone to simply end their life. All three parts must be there for a sin to be mortal.

Now, the key is the second one. Some would say that you are better off not knowing. IN the United States, there is a saying that ignorance of the law is no defence. God is the same, to an extent. We are required to learn what we can. THis is why the need for religion is hard-wired into our hearts. We will seek God out to the best we can. You cannot choose to stay uninformed and feel safe. By this logic, trying to stay ignorant when you have an option to learn is a serious sin.

You must confess any mortal sin. The easiet way to do so is to confess anything that goes against the ten commandments. Those are always a good place to start. It is best to simply confess the actions and not the why you think it was ok to do it. Most of us can rationalize any sin away if given the chance.

I hope that this helps.

 

[Brian777]

Alright Brian777… give it to me straight. Although I am a believer in the crusifixtion and resurrection of Christ and am convinced that the ascension of Christ was to go prepare heaven for the believers, I will not be allowed to praise and worship at the foot of the thrown because I have not ‘joined’ the Catholic church?

Yes, according to Scripture and Tradition, yes. God founded one Church, and he wants ALL his people to believe ALL his teachings, not just the basics, but also the Eucharist, Apostolic Succession, Papal Infallibility, things that were basic back in the days of the early Church. That is why all Christians must pray for unity, and for conversion to God’s True Church, so that what saints like Ignatius, Augustine, Ambrose, Athanasius, etc, held as indespencible beliefs and dogmas may be taught and believed by all Christians once again.

 

[Brian777]

Now, what does it mean to be in the Church? FIrst, you must be baptised. Any Christian, baptised in the Trinitarian formula with water adn the correct intention, is part of the Church. So, most Christians are Catholic by baptism, as we understand when Paul says that there is ONE baptism.

THose who are outside of the Church or even Christianity may be saved by the Grace of Jesus and Mercy of God. If they are, we must also understand that the intercession of the Church on their part was important. We must also see that GOd has chosen to distribute grace through His Church on earth. Again, salvation is through the Church.

Yes all Christians are Catholic by baptism, but, all non-catholic Christians become heretics later on by not accepting the teachings of the Church they were baptized into, so no once they do this they are in mortal sin. And they meet all three requirements…

1. Grave Matter: Refusing Salvation is a grave matter.
2. Knowledge of Grave matter: Scripture says multiple times that those who reject Christ and his teachings are not gaining Salvation.
3. Free Choice: well we have free will, so unless someone is forcing them to refuse the Catholic Faith, they meet this requirement by default(as do we all).

thank you Ralph. You make sense. and , I might add, you apear to be able to do that without judgement and condisention. I ask you now about those mortal sins that separate us from God and eternal salvation. Is ignoance one of those sins? If one does not know the rules , regulations, procedures of religeous observances is one ‘separate’? What are the mortal sins we must ‘confess’ and which must be atoned?
I thank you in advance for helping me understand? It is important to me.

I never judged or made condescending remarks, I simply posted the Teaching of Holy Mother Church from Scripture and Tradition. If that is condescending to you then I’m sorry, but its God’s Word, not mine.

Salaam/ Peace

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

yes ; God warned us in all major holy books that don’t take other deity , don’t make statue , don’t bow down in front of idols etc. So , those non-Catholics who worship one God must not be burned in fire

Catholics so not worship icons as idols, we venerate them, to show praise for the holy men and women who came before us. Worship is ONLY for God Almighty.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes all Christians are Catholic by baptism, but, all non-catholic Christians become heretics later on by not accepting the teachings of the Church they were baptized into, so no once they do this they are in mortal sin. And they meet all three requirements…

1. Grave Matter: Refusing Salvation is a grave matter.
2. Knowledge of Grave matter: Scripture says multiple times that those who reject Christ and his teachings are not gaining Salvation.
3. Free Choice: well we have free will, so unless someone is forcing them to refuse the Catholic Faith, they meet this requirement by default(as do we all).

I never judged or made condescending remarks, I simply posted the Teaching of Holy Mother Church from Scripture and Tradition. If that is condescending to you then I’m sorry, but its God’s Word, not mine.

Catholics so not worship icons as idols, we venerate them, to show praise for the holy men and women who came before us. Worship is ONLY for God Almighty.

The Church herself does not call all Non-Catholic Christians heretics. Why can we? In order to be guilty of Heresy, they must know the correct teaching and choose to profess something else even when told not to. Most Protestants fail at this level.

While you are correct about the mortal sin, you are assuming that all non-catholics understand that in denying the faith, they are denying Christ.

 

[Madolaina]

Yes, according to Scripture and Tradition, yes. God founded one Church, and he wants ALL his people to believe ALL his teachings, not just the basics, but also the Eucharist, Apostolic Succession, Papal Infallibility, things that were basic back in the days of the early Church. That is why all Christians must pray for unity, and for conversion to God’s True Church, so that what saints like Ignatius, Augustine, Ambrose, Athanasius, etc, held as indespencible beliefs and dogmas may be taught and believed by all Christians once again.

What about the ‘Jews’ being the ‘chosen ones’? According to scripture they will be restored before the end of days. Are you trying to tell me they will be restored in the catholic church which is far from likely since they really don’t believe in Mary and the immaculate conception. Catholics give great credance to the power and infuence of Mary mother of Christ.
If there be a Jew out there in the forum I would like your (name removed by moderator)ut likewise. I’m sure all religions have the concepts of grace and mercy which would mandate a little tolerance for the religious ignorant or uneducated non-catholic.

 

[Madolaina]

.

I never judged or made condescending remarks, I simply posted the Teaching of Holy Mother Church from Scripture and Tradition. If that is condescending to you then I’m sorry, but its God’s Word, not mine.

Brian…In my post to Ralph, I was simply responding to the tone of HIS post. His response made me feel at ease with asking another question and asking for clarification…I appreciated the ‘open door’. I made nor meant no accussations that you or anyone else had made ‘judgemental or condescending’ remarks here on this forum. You are obviously secure in your salvation and beliefs…I on the other hand am searching…Thank you Ralph; with your help and prayers and those of others here I hope to find my way back.

 

[Brian777]

The Church herself does not call all Non-Catholic Christians heretics. Why can we? In order to be guilty of Heresy, they must know the correct teaching and choose to profess something else even when told not to. Most Protestants fail at this level.

While you are correct about the mortal sin, you are assuming that all non-catholics understand that in denying the faith, they are denying Christ.

This is true, but many Protestants due meet that requirement, because Catholic teaching is right there in Scripture, if they refuse to see it after God’s grace comes upon them in baptism then they require a miracle of Grace for their conversion, something all Catholics must pray for.

What about the ‘Jews’ being the ‘chosen ones’? According to scripture they will be restored before the end of days. Are you trying to tell me they will be restored in the catholic church which is far from likely since they really don’t believe in Mary and the immaculate conception. Catholics give great credance to the power and infuence of Mary mother of Christ.
If there be a Jew out there in the forum I would like your (name removed by moderator)ut likewise. I’m sure all religions have the concepts of grace and mercy which would mandate a little tolerance for the religious ignorant or uneducated non-catholic.

The Jews were given more than any modern man is given. They had God himself in flesh walk among them! They also have all of the Old Testement prophecies showing them the right direction. If they refused God-Incarnate and refuse to listen to the Prophets then they are damned, something Christ said multiple times when dealing with the Jews in Scripture. Again not my words, Christ’s. Also, yes, Scripture means they will be returned to Holy Mother Church before the End of days. In fact in Catholic mysticism that is one of the pre-requisites for the Second Coming.

 

[Brian777]

Brian777;4481594:

.

I never judged or made condescending remarks, I simply posted the Teaching of Holy Mother Church from Scripture and Tradition. If that is condescending to you then I’m sorry, but its God’s Word, not mine.

Brian…In my post to Ralph, I was simply responding to the tone of HIS post. His response made me feel at ease with asking another question and asking for clarification…I appreciated the ‘open door’. I made nor meant no accussations that you or anyone else had made ‘judgemental or condescending’ remarks here on this forum. You are obviously secure in your salvation and beliefs…I on the other hand am searching…Thank you Ralph; with your help and prayers and those of others here I hope to find my way back.

Im sorry to jump on you like that…you have my prayers as well, and i know, if you cooperate God will bring you into His Holy Church. He wills the Salvation of ALL His children and will not let you remain lost as long as you trust in Him. God bless You.

 

[portalofpeace]

Though I was raised a SBC I am now a Catholic…If God is a loving and forgiving God that we have all been indoctrined to…I believe that you will go to heaven regardless of your religious belief. To believe otherwise…do you condemn those who have never heard of God or who have not had the opportunity to seek His light and you wish to condemn them to the wrath of hell? Maybe all of my beliefs are not strictly in line with the Catholic Faith but I am proud to be of the Catholic faith and I try and do the best I can…but I am human…and whatever I do I do willingly and with prior consideration of all consequences which I am willing to accept.

 

[Madolaina]

Though I was raised a SBC I am now a Catholic…If God is a loving and forgiving God that we have all been indoctrined to…I believe that you will go to heaven regardless of your religious belief. To believe otherwise…do you condemn those who have never heard of God or who have not had the opportunity to seek His light and you wish to condemn them to the wrath of hell? Maybe all of my beliefs are not strictly in line with the Catholic Faith but I am proud to be of the Catholic faith and I try and do the best I can…but I am human…and whatever I do I do willingly and with prior consideration of all consequences which I am willing to accept.

Please don’t say ‘if’. GOD IS the loving and forgiving God. God the father.As a ‘father’ he is interested in our doing and being our best; as a ‘father’ he is certainly sometimes ‘disappointed’ by what we do and do not do. But I believe he feels no greater sorrow than the sorow of being separeted even for a time. We as children feel that same sorrow of separation and try to work our way back in our own way. I do not believe God ever intended for us to live in misery…he will show us how to live through our poor judgements and find happiness in another place untill we can be rejoined.

 

[ralphinal]

Though I was raised a SBC I am now a Catholic…If God is a loving and forgiving God that we have all been indoctrined to…I believe that you will go to heaven regardless of your religious belief. To believe otherwise…do you condemn those who have never heard of God or who have not had the opportunity to seek His light and you wish to condemn them to the wrath of hell? Maybe all of my beliefs are not strictly in line with the Catholic Faith but I am proud to be of the Catholic faith and I try and do the best I can…but I am human…and whatever I do I do willingly and with prior consideration of all consequences which I am willing to accept.

Welcome to the forum.

Assuming that you are not too far to the relativism side, what you say here is not out of line with the Church. Someone, who through no fault of their own, cannot become Catholic may still be saved through the Mercy of God.

 

[portalofpeace]

Maybe I should have posted "if in our past teachings God is…." He is our Father if we have faith. Faith is the one aspect we forever overlook and many times we are so afraid to address. How can we even begin a truthfull journey without faith? Is it learned, inherited or just a given? And then how many times do we have faith but fail to realize?

 

[portalofpeace]

Thanks Ralph…and it is through this Mercy of God our world will continue…