Hedonistic and Lost Family

[xx24601]

Hi,

I’m a convert to Catholicism and my entire family is either indifferent or hateful toward religion. Whenever I bring it up, I’m harassed. It could be as little as an eye roll when I say grace (silently and inconspicuously mind you) or more recently, whenever I’m asked advice and I give solid moral teaching, they say I’m forcing my religion on them. For example, my mother or sister is having boyfriend trouble and ask me what they should do. Usually the conversation goes something like this:

Mother or sister: “I don’t know if he loves me or not. How do I pull that out of him?”

Me: “Stop having sex, first of all. If he really loves you, he’ll love YOU, not your body. If he doesn’t, then he’ll dump you because he won’t be able to use you for sex anymore.”

“OMG!!! I AM SOOOOO SICK OF YOU TRYING TO SHOVE YOUR STUPID RELIGION DOWN MY THROAT!! JUST BECAUSE YOU’RE CATHOLIC DOESN’T MEAN EVERYONE HAS TO LIVE BY YOUR RULES!! JUST SHUT UP AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!” (expletives have been removed)

No, I’m not exaggerating. My 42 year old mother really acts like my 16 year old sister. They often call me a prude and a nun (not that I take offense to that, just I know what they mean) when I dress modestly and feminine. I can’t go a day without a comment or a sneer. Right now I’m living with them and my little brother who’s 13 and not that much better. I consider it my cross to bear. There are often violent physically violent outbursts from the children.

I’m 22 and going to school online. When I move out, I’m thinking about cutting ties altogether. I know this seems uncharitable, but given how venomous and volatile the situation is, I feel like it’s the best I can do. I’m also prone to, instead of sitting quietly, confronting their hatred with logic, often in a condescending way. Bear in mind, I grew up learning from my mother and I often feel like argument is my only defense. So, you see, it’s poisoning me. It poisons me to even be in contact with them. Any other family member I’ve lived with acts the same way. They have no respect for my beliefs and have no qualms about tearing me down. My mother is just indifferent to religion, but my father won’t even speak to me because I left his militant atheist cult. Would it be so un-Christian of me to just move away and build a new family in the one, true Church?

 

[styrgwillidar]

Funny how the Church’s teaching seems completely consistent with human nature. God didn’t provide rules to spoil our fun, he gave us those rules because if we abide by them we live a happier life more meaningful life.

Instead of a religious book, buy them a copy of George Gilder’s “Men and Marriage”. It’s a revision of an earlier book he did. It points out that as the family structure breaks down in society, violence, child abuse, promiscuity, alcohol and drug abuse rise. From a secular/anthropological view vice religious. It points out that there has never been a successful society in this world which didn’t have the institution of marriage- a man and woman bound together ensuring the man he is caring for his own children, ensuring the woman that she will have the protection and assistance of the man.

If they start to realize there is something fundamental in human nature, perhaps they’ll be curious as to why.

Pray, and set a good example-- preach through your actions vice words.

ETA: I don’t think it’s uncharitable to avoid people, even family who drag us away from God instead of towards him. Particularly once you have children of your own and have to be concerned about the influences on them. Sunday’s gospel seems germane to your situation.

 

[dshix]

Hi,

I’m a convert to Catholicism and my entire family is either indifferent or hateful toward religion. Whenever I bring it up, I’m harassed. It could be as little as an eye roll when I say grace (silently and inconspicuously mind you) or more recently, whenever I’m asked advice and I give solid moral teaching, they say I’m forcing my religion on them. For example, my mother or sister is having boyfriend trouble and ask me what they should do. Usually the conversation goes something like this:

Mother or sister: “I don’t know if he loves me or not. How do I pull that out of him?”

Me: “Stop having sex, first of all. If he really loves you, he’ll love YOU, not your body. If he doesn’t, then he’ll dump you because he won’t be able to use you for sex anymore.”

“OMG!!! I AM SOOOOO SICK OF YOU TRYING TO SHOVE YOUR STUPID RELIGION DOWN MY THROAT!! JUST BECAUSE YOU’RE CATHOLIC DOESN’T MEAN EVERYONE HAS TO LIVE BY YOUR RULES!! JUST SHUT UP AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!” (expletives have been removed)

No, I’m not exaggerating. My 42 year old mother really acts like my 16 year old sister. They often call me a prude and a nun (not that I take offense to that, just I know what they mean) when I dress modestly and feminine. I can’t go a day without a comment or a sneer. Right now I’m living with them and my little brother who’s 13 and not that much better. I consider it my cross to bear. There are often violent physically violent outbursts from the children.

I’m 22 and going to school online. When I move out, I’m thinking about cutting ties altogether. I know this seems uncharitable, but given how venomous and volatile the situation is, I feel like it’s the best I can do. I’m also prone to, instead of sitting quietly, confronting their hatred with logic, often in a condescending way. Bear in mind, I grew up learning from my mother and I often feel like argument is my only defense. So, you see, it’s poisoning me. It poisons me to even be in contact with them. Any other family member I’ve lived with acts the same way. They have no respect for my beliefs and have no qualms about tearing me down. My mother is just indifferent to religion, but my father won’t even speak to me because I left his militant atheist cult. Would it be so un-Christian of me to just move away and build a new family in the one, true Church?

Situations like this are very, VERY difficult, and I laud you for trying to be charitable as your work your way through it.

However, you undoubtedly need to cut ties as soon as possible; immediately, if feasible. As you said, this environment is just going to make you angry, frustrate you, and cause you (and your family) to sin through anger. I suggest, if possible, that you start renting an apartment nearby in the short term, in which you’ll live while you finish school, and as soon as you can, move away if you wish.

You need to make sure that when your family confronts you on this, you show the most love as possible, and just tell them, as charitably as possible, that it is impossible for you to live happily when being marginalized. You see, they are not understanding that they are ATTACKING you at the heart, in your faith. They think that they are the victims, being imposed upon by one of those “nuns,” but you need to show them it is exactly the opposite.

 

[Kal2012]

Not all families have good relationships with each other.

My husband was kicked out by his family when he was 17. Since that’s what happened to him, that’s what he did to his son. There was no real reason why he was thrown out of the house.

Needless to say, I’ve only met my in-laws once and I totally understand why my husband and his dad don’t get along.

I have issues with my family, but that’s more based on class, rather than we don’t get along. In the end, I’m just not a redneck and I have no interest in living the life. I can’t change who I am. Our interests and lifestyles are just different. Always have been.

I see my family once in awhile. Graduation Parties/Birthday Parties that sort of thing. I’m not mean when I see them, but limiting my interactions with them helps me be a better person and not get sucked into people’s drama. I don’t do drama.

Since my dad’s the family gossip, I’ve learned to limit what I say to him. I don’t flip out on my brother over getting tattoos (which I was just shocked about when I learned that he got them). It is what it is. I accept that they like the culture they live in. Again, I’m not going to change who they are and the choices they make. All I can do is accept them for who they are and accept that we don’t have a lot in common.

It is okay to choose to live a life without them in it. (or limit your interactions). Sometimes, the family that gets along best is the family that doesn’t see each other, except maybe once or twice a year. (Or never). Living in a different town than my family is a blessing for us. My dad would be in our business all the time, if he lived a lot closer. Having the in-laws in a different state is just the way my husband likes it.

Other families are just closer and they actually like spending time together. (who knew, right?) Sadly, not all families are like that. In the end, Jesus will bless the decision that’s right for you and your situation.

 

[xx24601]

styrgwillidar: The book you suggested sounds very interesting to me. Sadly, my entire family combined doesn’t have a tenth of the love of reading that I do. If I offered them a book, they would see it as condescending. That’s just how they are.

Kal2012: My family is very similar to yours. They are “proud rednecks” and the fact that I’m not and do not wish to live that way is another thing they hate me for.

dshix: I’m inclined to agree with your sentiment. I honestly have tried to make them see it from my point of view, but they view every disagreement with their opinion as an attack. (question for all) would it be wrong to just pick up and leave one day while everyone’s at school or work and never speak to anyone again?

 

[MarkInOregon]

Hi,

I’m a convert to Catholicism and my entire family is either indifferent or hateful toward religion. Whenever I bring it up, I’m harassed. It could be as little as an eye roll when I say grace (silently and inconspicuously mind you) or more recently, whenever I’m asked advice and I give solid moral teaching, they say I’m forcing my religion on them. For example, my mother or sister is having boyfriend trouble and ask me what they should do. Usually the conversation goes something like this:

Mother or sister: “I don’t know if he loves me or not. How do I pull that out of him?”

Me: “Stop having sex, first of all. If he really loves you, he’ll love YOU, not your body. If he doesn’t, then he’ll dump you because he won’t be able to use you for sex anymore.”

I guess I would not have led with that. After that what did you honestly expect as a response? I think I would have led with a question along the lines of, “Why do you think he doesn’t love you?” Let the discussion flow to the sex outside of wedlock issue. Your opening salvo, while it may be true, seems pretty harsh and confrontational to me. They alread know what you think. You need to love them, provide them with information supporting your position in a non threatening way–they will need to ponder and let this information percolate, maybe for years–you know information from secular sources regarding living together and marriage success, or should I say lack of success, etc., and above all pray for them. You will not win them over by continued frontal attacks–you need to live your life in a Christian manner as best you can–lead by example, by practicing what you preach and leave it at that–they will see the transformation in your life–your peace. You are 22–they may think this is just a phase you are going through. Family knows you and all your faults too well-- when you pray for them you should also pray for God to send someone into their lives that they will respect and listen to who can lead them to Christ and His Church. They need to hear the message but they need to be ready to hear it and it needs to be delivered in such a way that they can hear it.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[agnes_therese]

No, there’s nothing wrong with moving away as soon as you can. And once you’ve done that, you’ll have a better basis for setting boundaries. Such as “If you can’t respect my faith, this conversation will have to be over.”

Meanwhile – whenever they ask for your advice, just say “I’m sorry, but every time you ask for my advice, you hate what I tell you. So I’m out of the advice business.” Say it with a smile, but stick to it.

 

[Gullveig]

First, your family sounds pretty toxic to start with. I’d get out of there as soon as possible for your own mental health.

Second, don’t give advice. People never follow advice. (yes, I’m fully aware that I’m contradicting myself by advising you about this. ) And especially don’t give advice about things that you are not personally very experienced in.

Third, from a non-Christian, understand that people who have had bad experiences with Christians or generally are unfavorably disposed to Christianity for whatever reason will often react with scorn and anger to things that smack of Christian ideology when it’s been thrown in their face often. I don’t know why your family has such a problem with your religion. Maybe they’re just behaving badly, maybe they’ve had prior bad experiences that color how they see what’s happening, or it might partially be the manner in which you discuss or practice your religion in their space. I’ve met quite a few Christians that seem to go out of their way emphasize their Christian-ness to non-Christians as an evangelizing tool, and the attention-seeking behaviors can be rather irritating after awhile. Not saying that’s what you’re necessarily doing, but you might just want to take an honest assessment to see if you can identify exactly what the source of most of the arguments is. If you really must give advice, understand that they’re asking for advice in context of their worldview, not yours. That’s just another reason to avoid letting them bait you into giving advice or discussing religion.

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

As several others have said:
Practice your faith, set a good example, save your nickels and dimes and move out as soon as possible. Only offer your advice/opinion if asked for it, and preface it with a polite “well, you may disagree with what I’m about to say . . .”

In the meantime start “growing” your own family at your parish by getting involved there in different ministries. It will help you spiritually and will give you a reason to be out of the house for a while.

 

[xx24601]

I guess I would not have led with that. After that what did you honestly expect as a response? I think I would have led with a question along the lines of, “Why do you think he doesn’t love you?” Let the discussion flow to the sex outside of wedlock issue. Your opening salvo, while it may be true, seems pretty harsh and confrontational to me. They alread know what you think. You need to love them, provide them with information supporting your position in a non threatening way–they will need to ponder and let this information percolate, maybe for years–you know information from secular sources regarding living together and marriage success, or should I say lack of success, etc., and above all pray for them. You will not win them over by continued frontal attacks–you need to live your life in a Christian manner as best you can–lead by example, by practicing what you preach and leave it at that–they will see the transformation in your life–your peace. You are 22–they may think this is just a phase you are going through. Family knows you and all your faults too well-- when you pray for them you should also pray for God to send someone into their lives that they will respect and listen to who can lead them to Christ and His Church. They need to hear the message but they need to be ready to hear it and it needs to be delivered in such a way that they can hear it.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

I’m sorry for oversimplifying the conversation. Obviously, there is more discussion, but it typically boils down to the points I mentioned. Maybe I’m too forward, but, typically, what I respond with is my best attempt at being secular. I pray for them every day, but I agree with you that I’m not the person that needs to be delivering them the message.

 

[xx24601]

As several others have said:
Practice your faith, set a good example, save your nickels and dimes and move out as soon as possible. Only offer your advice/opinion if asked for it, and preface it with a polite “well, you may disagree with what I’m about to say . . .”

In the meantime start “growing” your own family at your parish by getting involved there in different ministries. It will help you spiritually and will give you a reason to be out of the house for a while.

I live in a small town in Indiana. Everyone knows everyone and building my own family at my parish isn’t really feasible because I’m going to move pretty far away when I get the chance.

 

[xx24601]

No, there’s nothing wrong with moving away as soon as you can. And once you’ve done that, you’ll have a better basis for setting boundaries. Such as “If you can’t respect my faith, this conversation will have to be over.”

Meanwhile – whenever they ask for your advice, just say “I’m sorry, but every time you ask for my advice, you hate what I tell you. So I’m out of the advice business.” Say it with a smile, but stick to it.

Succinct and thoughtful. Thank you.

 

[xx24601]

First, your family sounds pretty toxic to start with. I’d get out of there as soon as possible for your own mental health.

Second, don’t give advice. People never follow advice. (yes, I’m fully aware that I’m contradicting myself by advising you about this. ) And especially don’t give advice about things that you are not personally very experienced in.

Third, from a non-Christian, understand that people who have had bad experiences with Christians or generally are unfavorably disposed to Christianity for whatever reason will often react with scorn and anger to things that smack of Christian ideology when it’s been thrown in their face often. I don’t know why your family has such a problem with your religion. Maybe they’re just behaving badly, maybe they’ve had prior bad experiences that color how they see what’s happening, or it might partially be the manner in which you discuss or practice your religion in their space. I’ve met quite a few Christians that seem to go out of their way emphasize their Christian-ness to non-Christians as an evangelizing tool, and the attention-seeking behaviors can be rather irritating after awhile. Not saying that’s what you’re necessarily doing, but you might just want to take an honest assessment to see if you can identify exactly what the source of most of the arguments is. If you really must give advice, understand that they’re asking for advice in context of their worldview, not yours. That’s just another reason to avoid letting them bait you into giving advice or discussing religion.

I am, sadly, quite experienced in the advice I mentioned. I myself was a hedonistic atheist for nearly a decade. I didn’t think it was religious at all. It makes sense. Men have sex with women for two reasons: they wish to engage in a most sacred union because they love her, or for fun. I don’t really see how that smacks of religion. That’s just personal experience. Don’t misinterpret me though. I very much appreciate your advice, even if you’re contradicting yourself by giving it .

 

[Brendan_64]

Would it be so un-Christian of me to just move away and build a new family in the one, true Church?

In my opinion, yes, that would be a wrong thing to do. Move out by all means, set up on your own, live your life as you wish to, but always have a place for them in your life. Keep in contact with them, visit them regularly, phone them regularly, and always leave the door open for them.

If you close the door on them how will you feel when the first of your parents dies? Losing a parent (and it happens to us all) is a wound that never heals, but to lose a parent knowing that you have rejected them would be a much deeper wound. Regardless of their views they are your family, and will always remain so. You are also commanded to honour your father and your mother. That command is unconditional.

 

[xx24601]

Would just like to say thank you all for your kind responses. They are greatly appreciated. God bless you all.

 

[xx24601]

In my opinion, yes, that would be a wrong thing to do. Move out by all means, set up on your own, live your life as you wish to, but always have a place for them in your life. Keep in contact with them, visit them regularly, phone them regularly, and always leave the door open for them.

If you close the door on them how will you feel when the first of your parents dies? Losing a parent (and it happens to us all) is a wound that never heals, but to lose a parent knowing that you have rejected them would be a much deeper wound. Regardless of their views they are your family, and will always remain so. You are also commanded to honour your father and your mother. That command is unconditional.

There’s no way I could honour them by simply praying and offering up my sufferings for them?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You are 22 years old. You live at home and go to school. So you want to stay with your family until they put you through school and then you want to cut them off. If you’re going to do that st least have the decency to not use them to get through school. They are helping you under the assumption that you are a family.

So instead of using the nuclear option at 22 perhaps you could work on communication and boundaries first? What you said to your sister was mean and confrontational, and she was trying to open up to you. Peace and harmony have to go both ways. You can’t say whatever you want “because its your religion” and not expect them to say anything back.

 

[bsroufek]

…
Would it be so un-Christian of me to just move away and build a new family in the one, true Church?
…

This is a caustic, hostile and antagonistic atmosphere for you. To stay in it WHEN YOU DON"T HAVE TO can break you down and even lead you to bitterness, anger or even despair.

As soon as you can, or even sooner, leave.

As Jesus said [Matt 10:37], “Any one who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and any one who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;”

 

[xx24601]

You are 22 years old. You live at home and go to school. So you want to stay with your family until they put you through school and then you want to cut them off. If you’re going to do that st least have the decency to not use them to get through school. They are helping you under the assumption that you are a family.

So instead of using the nuclear option at 22 perhaps you could work on communication and boundaries first? What you said to your sister was mean and confrontational, and she was trying to open up to you. Peace and harmony have to go both ways. You can’t say whatever you want “because its your religion” and not expect them to say anything back.

I pay for my own school. I pay my own way and give my mother money when she’ll accept it. I live with my family because my little brother begged me to move back after I almost got jumped in the big city. But thanks for assuming I’m a user.

 

[xx24601]

This is a caustic, hostile and antagonistic atmosphere for you. To stay in it WHEN YOU DON"T HAVE TO can break you down and even lead you to bitterness, anger or even despair.

As soon as you can, or even sooner, leave.

As Jesus said [Matt 10:37], “Any one who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and any one who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;”

Thanks, Brian. Love the quote. That really puts things in perspective. :sad_yes: