Hell and Free Will

[Latin]

Would you rather be a living robot that acts like a slave and has no will of its own?

LIBERTARIAN FREE WILL
Libertarian free will is basically the concept that, metaphysically and morally, man is an autonomous being, one who operates independently, not controlled by others or by outside forces.

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I show you LovelyLadybug what could we do with Libertarian free will.

The Council of Sens (1140) condemned the idea that free will is sufficient in itself for any good. Donez., 373.

Council of Orange (529)
In canon 20, entitled hat Without God Man Can Do No Good. . . Denz., 193; quoting St. Prosper.

In canon 22, says, “ No one has anything of his own except lying and sin. Denz., 194; quoting St. Prosper.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence also says;
Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).

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Fallen man cannot redeem himself, (De fide). – It is God’s responsibility to save ALL OF US.
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Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification, (De fide). – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by His grace of Final Perseverance.

CCC 2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance.
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The salvation of every predestined to Heaven is eternally protected by God’s gift of Final Perseverance, this is an INFALLIBLE PROTECTION of the salvation of every receiver. – This is an infallible teachings of the Trent and formal teachings of the Catholic Church.
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Without God’s gift of Final Perseverance everyone would die in mortal sin, (THERE IS NO SALVATION WITHOUT IT) while the receivers of His gift of Final Perseverance NO ONE can die in mortal sin because this is an INFALLIBLE PROTECTION of the salvation of every receiver.

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As we see LovelyLadybug, with libertarian free will we would all end up in the pains of hell.

In Theology libertarian free will is absolutely useless for salvation.
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CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).
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Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …

CCC 2022; The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
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God gave us aided free will because he loves us SO much and He will takes all of us up home to Heaven.

Do you still LovelyLadybug feel God’s gift of Aided Free will makes us living robots?
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God bless

 

[Inquiry]

As described above, our free wills and actions always in line with God’s will and this way we are all on the road home to Heaven.
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God bless

We are indeed all on the road to Heaven. What do you think awaits those who deliberately walk it the wrong way?

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Free will is dependent on circumstances. Perhaps i have free will - but the moment I get strapped into the roller coaster seat I have lost my free will for the duration of the ride.

I may have enough free will to say that I choose my moves on the chess board. But if i am playing Gary Kasparov the almost infinite probability is that i am going to lose that particular game.

 

[Vico]

Free will is dependent on circumstances. Perhaps i have free will - but the moment I get strapped into the roller coaster seat I have lost my free will for the duration of the ride.

I may have enough free will to say that I choose my moves on the chess board. But if i am playing Gary Kasparov the almost infinite probability is that i am going to lose that particular game.

Free will is in terms of moral choices aided by the grace of God.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Yes. The way i try to think of it these days is that it is like dancing. Jesus is leading, and i am following. I still have free will, in fact if I didn’t it wouldn’t be much of a dance.

 

[EndTimes]

Perhaps i have free will - but the moment I get strapped into the roller coaster seat I have lost my free will for the duration of the ride.

No… You still have the potential to free willingly unbuckle, stand up or do this or that.

It’s fear of Death which most likely makes you will to not do anything stupid…

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[Latin]

What do you think awaits those who deliberately walk it the wrong way?

At the point we understand Catholic Theology, that is the point we are seeing the light and we are able to connect–the–dots and we are able to see the big picture of God’s Designed, Decreed, Foreordained Plan for the universe and for us.
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In God’s Plan EVERY EVENT for the universe and EVERY ACT for us Designed according to God’s Love and His Omniscience down to its minutest details and Decreed, Foreordained from all eternity, and God orders every event according to the way He Designed them, THERE IS NO WRONG WAY IN IT.
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God Designed, Decreed, Foreordained every event for the universe and He Designed, Decreed Foreordained for us every act, includes our salutary acts and our act of sins (“our walk in the wrong way”).

For our limited knowledge, seems many event in the universe and many event in our life was or is a “wrong way.”

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INQUIRY PLEASE CONNECT–THE–DOTS

FIRST DOT

Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”

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SECOND DOT

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit, VI, xxxii in P.L.,”

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THIRD DOT

THE REASON GOD CREATED THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN

Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.

Our struggle and tribulation while journeying towards our ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin is the cost which in-prints the virtue/ nobility into our souls – the cost of our road to nobility and perfection.

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L.,

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The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii 1 seqq). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)
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God bless

 

[Inquiry]

@Latin, you are very good at providing evidence for part of your argument, but not all of it. Catholic teaching is that we are not guaranteed to end up in heaven. I certainly think that given the nature of free will it is possible that everyone will, and I certainly hope that is the case, but it strikes me as dangerous and a terrible presumption to assume so.

 

[EndTimes]

@Latin, you are very good at providing evidence for part of your argument, but not all of it. Catholic teaching is that we are not guaranteed to end up in heaven. I certainly think that given the nature of free will it is possible that everyone will, and I certainly hope that is the case, but it strikes me as dangerous and a terrible presumption to assume so.

And… that common false argument has roots in false shepherds -

 

[Aquinas11]

Yes Pope Pius XII censured these ideas in 1950 Humani Generis

Others destroy the gratuity of the supernatural order, since God, they say, cannot create intellectual beings without ordering and calling them to the beatific vision

 

[Latin]

Catholic teaching is that we are not guaranteed to end up in heaven.

According to the teachings of the Catholic Church, every predestined to heaven granted with absolute certainty that all end up in heaven.
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The Catholic dogma
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect explains;

(1) Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, with all the different measures of grace and the various degrees of happiness, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit, VI, xxxii in “P.L.,”

All events preordained by God in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.

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As we see above Inquiry the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence teaches:

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
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How could a Just and Loving God throw anyone to hell for the reason he is obey His command???

Some others saying, God does not throw anyone to hell, people choose to go to hell.

But how anyone can choose to go to hell when CCC 308 For God is at work in us, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).
.
Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …

CCC 2022; The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.

As we see above, someones only could choose hell if God would causes someones to choose hell.
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Also the whole Catholic Church is (CCC 1058) praying for the salvation of everyone, we all should believe what we are praying for.
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Phil.1:6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)
And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring into completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

We should be sure too, this would be Faith in action!!!
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God bless

 

[EndTimes]

@Latin, you are very good at providing evidence for part of your argument, but not all of it. Catholic teaching is that we are not guaranteed to end up in heaven.

Exactly - Simply being a member of Catholicism is not a Guarantee of inheriting Eternal Life